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  1. #1
    Mega BHUZzer zafirah's Avatar
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    Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    Hi arabic speakers . . .

    I know a little arabic . . I am trying to write zafirah in arabic script.

    I assume it comes from the word (zafr(un?)) ظفر
    which according to my dictionary means victorious/sucessful (this is always what i thought the name vaguely meant, and indeed why i picked it as it means the same as my english name - victoria)

    Anyway, I have always pronounced it zaf eeee rah

    so my best guess at the spelling (given it is female name added the ta marbuta) is added a ya to make the eee sound long

    ظفيرة

    Is this correct?

    Why is there commonly an h on the end of the transliteration? Should there be a 'ha' in there somewhere?

    Thanks

    Zaf


  2. #2
    Master BHUZzer wigglewhiz's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    Not an Arabic speaker, as you know, but just thought I'd pitch in to say that's exactly how I'd have chosen to spell it too. If you can gain any validation from a chick who's only learned the script alphabet and some odds n ends of phrases so far. ..l;,


  3. #3
    Mega BHUZzer zafirah's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    Yes but now I wonder if it really is a long eee or not, or that's just the way native english speakers feel most comfortable prnouncing it? Hmmmm . . .. .

    I have plans involving a tank top and a kandi kane . . . .

    Heh

    Zaf


  4. #4
    Master BHUZzer ANA_bellydancer's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    It's something like "Thafeera".


  5. #5
    Master BHUZzer ANA_bellydancer's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    I can ask my teacher of Arab and tell you exactly how that is on Tuesday night.


  6. #6
    Master BHUZzer ANA_bellydancer's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    "Zafrun" is with "açad", not with "dhal"... It's "Çafraun".
    Last edited by ANA_bellydancer; 06-27-2009 at 06:48 PM.


  7. #7
    Mega BHUZzer zafirah's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    Hi Anna,

    Thanks for you help
    I did not mean Zaffrun as in Saffron. The baby naming sites all say Zafirah means 'succesfull' and my dictionary says the word ظفر means victory/success (the un part being the nominative case ending double damma thingy) so I'm am 99% sure my name is from these root letters. The only question is what extra vowels etc to add . . . .

    Meanwhile I must practice saying it with a much more emphatic z sound than i have being . . .

    Z


  8. #8
    Master BHUZzer ANA_bellydancer's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    Anyway, I'll tell you after asking my teacher...


  9. #9
    Ultimate BHUZzer Tourbeau's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers



  10. #10
    Mega BHUZzer zafirah's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    Thanks Tourbeau. If that site is correct then i had it completely wrong! I definiteyl want to be 'succesful' not 'firm' (LOL) so it looks like I am actually zaaafirah.

    Hmmm, I wonder how reliable that website is?

    Z


  11. #11
    Mega BHUZzer zafirah's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    Oh hang on, I just noticed ضفیرا as well. Now I understand what ANA was talking about!!! Although i think egyptians would pronounce that more ddaaafirah

    Argh!

    I guess I can pick which I want to be as they all come out the same in english.
    I def thought I was being successful, and I don't want to be 'firm'!!! (also that root with the stong za seems to also mean 'nail'?!)

    Z


  12. #12
    Mega BHUZzer zafirah's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    To confuse things more both my dictionarys say
    ضفر
    means 'braid'.


  13. #13
    Ultimate BHUZzer Tourbeau's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    I'm not sure why they wouldn't be reliable. I'm certainly less suspicious of them than I would be of a site listing dance names that was compiled by a dancer who didn't speak Arabic. I googled around a bit in English, but I couldn't find any other baby naming sites that had the listings in both Arabic and English scripts. (I know I used to have a whole bunch of links on my laptop, but the system crashed two days ago, taking my old Favorites list to the Great Bit Bucket in the Sky.) If you've got the time, you could try googling رضيع الأسماء or something like that, and running it through the translation filter, if you aren't comfortable scanning the search results in Arabic.


  14. #14
    Mega BHUZzer zafirah's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    LOL. I am just dubious about the ضفیرا
    that site has listed.

    2 dictionaries and a textbook both have the root ضفر
    as do to with braiding/plaiting/winding around etc
    and
    ظفر
    as to do with victory/triumph.

    So I def want to use the ظ

    I think the choice is to change the prounounciation but keep the meaning (as far as I cna tell this is simply a feminine adjective for victorious) ظافرة

    or change the meaning slightly to 'resolute' and keep the pronouciation: ظفيرة

    Although the other one, ( ظفيرا ) bugs me, why is there an alif at the end on its own, what grammatical thing is that? Because if it makes it into 'one/she who is victorious' that would be perfect. But I don't know quite enough about grammer to work that out yet.

    Is this all a bit anal anyway? I get the impression its an old name anyway, a bit like Victoria. So does it matter the finer points as long as it is from the right root letters, and feminine? e.g. Victoria doens't mena anything but all native english speakers can tell it comes from 'victory'.?!!

    Am probably overthinking this. Just don't want to make an idiot of myself with native speakers!!

    Z


  15. #15
    A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single post. Lauren_'s Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    You look pretty firm to me.


  16. #16
    Ultimate BHUZzer Tourbeau's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    I'm afraid until you can get a native speaker to weigh in on this, you're probably not going to be able to sort out the confusion. Sometimes words have more than one meaning, and the meanings can be subtle, cultural things that are hard for non-native speakers to pick up on. I'm not saying your dictionary is wrong--it probably isn't--but it's also remotely possible that "braid" could have a secondary meaning of "rope-like sturdiness" that "firm" simply wasn't quite the right word to translate it as in English. Translation can go both ways in inaccuracy, and Arabic is particularly difficult to sort out because of the vast variations in dialect.

    There's also the whole issue of what kind of stereotype the name carries within the culture. "Roseanne" is listed as being derived from the flower name and the Hebrew word for "grace" (both lovely thoughts), but most Americans associate that name with a famously loud-mouthed comedienne. There are so many things to consider, and which variation of the name you choose really requires some guidance from someone within the culture, because you never know what kind of images those names conjure up that don't necessarily follow from their literal derivations.


  17. #17
    Master BHUZzer ANA_bellydancer's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    From what I see on the list, there is also a سافره
    and a سفیره
    You have too much to choose ..l;,


  18. #18
    Master BHUZzer ANA_bellydancer's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    Ok, Victoria! Here’s the verdict:
    My teacher (who is a classical Arab scholar from Morocco) says “Zafirah” must be an Egyptian fantasy name, far from classical Arab. He actually doesn’t know anyone with such a name. The only similar name would be the slight wind zephyr, which has got nothing to do with your real name’s meaning. The feminine of “victorious” would be “Mansoura”...


  19. #19
    Master BHUZzer ANA_bellydancer's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    Like this:

    ﻩﺮﻭﺻﻨﻤ


  20. #20
    Just Starting! IMussa's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    ظفيرة is not arabic name, ظفر means in Khaleej nail as singular. ظفيرة is mostly used in hebrew and stuffed chicken or something like that.. but its not Islamic Arabic name..hope this helps..xxxx


  21. #21
    Just Starting! IMussa's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tourbeau View Post
    "braid"
    Word ظفيرة used for braiding for the hebrew hair..my English is not that good..I dont mean to offend but yes used for hebrew style of hair..hope helps..


  22. #22
    Just Starting! badawi's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    loool
    i wanted to help but i notice that this thread is too old ,,so
    if u have any question in my language just ask


  23. #23
    Just Starting! absalom's Avatar
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    Re: Help with spelling! - arabic speakers

    Zafira,

    you're having difficulty spelling it because you're probably pronouncing it wrong! This name meaning victress is ظافرة

    This would be transliterated as "Zafira" if written in English but it is pronounced "ZAH-fee-rah" rather than "zah-FEE-rah"

    I learned modern standard arabic with the US army


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