Thread: what dialect should I learn?

i'm going to start learning Arabic after i finish my masters (either this Christmas or next spring), so i have to decide which dialect to study.
I would like to be able to converse (someday, i know that's gonna take a while) with patrons, i would also like to be able to understand my music.
my friend who has lived in Egypt for 3 semesters now says i should learn Lebanese, and that is what the songs are in, however i read on Shira's site (which i also trust) that most music is in Egyptian dialect, and it's certainly easier to find translations for the "classy" Lebanese pop (Nancy Ajram...) that i listen to than the shaabi i also love.
however most the Arabic folks around here are from Syria, Lebanon, or Jordan. the only other people i could talk with are my two friends who are studying Arabic, the one who has lived in Egypt (Cairo Uni. grad student), and the linguist who is about to start basic in the army, she doesn't know what language they'll assign her to. (but she's praying it's not Japanese ^_~)

any advice? are these mutually exclusive goals?

Oooh, tricky. *I* would learn Egyptian because it seems most useful to me but you've just brought up a whole bunch of really good reasons to consider others...

'Pick one accent and stick to it' was the advice a friend gave me. My choice has been Egyptian. Why Egyptian?

- While I work and mix with Gulf Arabic speakers they don't have the time to 'teach' me, they are my practice buddies, so I've learnt through cds.
- The resources available for learning in the Egyptian accent (cds, tape courses) will take you to a more advanced stage than many of the others.
- Any Arabic person will recognise instantly, even before you open your mouth, that you are not a native Arabic speaker and as a result, they don't care what accent you have. From my experience people will make an extra effort to listen to what you're saying even if it is in a different dialect to their own. 99.9% of the time they'll be pleased that you've made the effort to learn.

(For me, being able to speak directly to the local ladies without having to channel the conversation through a husband/son is a huge benefit too.)

Once you've learnt sufficient Arabic you'll be able to translate song lyrics no matter what accent they're sung in. Its just an accent not a different language.

If you are taking regular college classes in Arabic, they will begin teaching MSA (Modern Standard Arabic), which is the academic foundation of the language. Few people speak it, but few Americans speak formal English with proper use of "whom" and no preposition at the end of a sentence, and this is a similar idea. I don't think most college programs expect students to shift into rigorous dialect study until their third year; although, a textbook series like "Alif Baa"/"Al Kitaab" does introduce dialect concepts early on. A lot of colleges do not offer dialect study beyond ECA (Egyptian Colloquial Arabic) at the undergrad level, and many don't even manage that.

I believe the general thinking is that the Levantine dialects are the closest to MSA, then Gulf, then Egyptian, with Maghrebi occupying their own little branch since they are often heavily influenced by French. The dialects are arranged in families, but there are further subdivisions within the groups, each with their own idiosyncrasies of pronunciation, grammar, and idioms (e.g., Jordanian and Lebanese are not identical, but Jordanian is much closer to Lebanese than Libyan). If you only learn MSA, you will still be able to be understood in most cases, despite sounding a bit stilted and stuffy.

Egyptian Arabic is the de facto language of the Arabic entertainment industry, so it is widely recognized in the Arab World. If you have a specific interest in a different dialect, it's quite reasonable to want to concentrate on that one instead, but it is still useful to know some Egyptian anyway. As far as singers, Egyptian singers record the vast majority of their songs in Egyptian dialect. Singers from outside of Egypt also often record in Egyptian dialect, but this tends to be a personal choice/preference of their lyricist. It is more common to hear a Lebanese singer using Egyptian dialect than an Egyptian singer using Lebanese dialect, but the majority of Lebanese music is still in Lebanese. Most performers favor their own native traditions and court their home markets, regardless of where they are from.

As you can probably tell from the other responses, there is no easy answer to this.

Here is where I am coming from...I have (and still am) studied MSA at a University for 2 years. I had two Moroccan teachers and one Jordanian teacher. The teachers often teach you words from their dialect as well. I am currently living in Lebanon and studying Arabic here as well. When I first came here it felt hopeless, my MSA felt useless in conversation , but after a few weeks that turned out to be incorrect and it has helped me a lot.

I personally would focus on Levantine dialect if you have a choice. As another said...you will be able to understand the lyrics either way once you get to a certain point and your patrons will like hearing you use their dialect, believe me...of course, if you try to speak with them they may correct you with their dialect anyway.

Keep in mind as another said, if you study in a University you will be using the textbook Al-Kitaab which is MSA, but it was written by Egyptians and all of the speakers in the DVDs are Egyptians so you can pick up A LOT of Egyptian dialect from that while you learn MSA if you pay attention. MSA is good for a foundation, but unless you want to go into Politics or something I would say only use it as a foundation. MSA is what is used in all of the newspapers and the news and Egyptian is, like previously mentioned, in many of the movies that are shown on tv throughout the Arabic speaking world.

Basically, if you can speak Levantine then you are closest to MSA (which many dictionaries use) and what is termed Classical Arabic so any Egyptian will understand you as well. At first they all feel like entirely different languages and when I started learning MSA I couldn't really speak to anyone who spoke anything other than MSA (so basically everyone except my teachers), mainly because I couldn't understand them. But if you stick with it (many do not, there is a 3% rate of college students who stick with Arabic through an advanced level) then once you get to a smooth conversational level you will be able to understand, speak, and translate anything you want - provided you have a few good dictionaries ;). You will always be learning and no matter what dialect you focus on you will always have influences form other dialects (music, your teachers, new people you speak with, travel, etc.).

I hope this helps and you can send me a message if you have any more questions that I could help with on this topic. Keep in mind, it is a tough language for English speakers (one of the most difficult), and it will take a lot of hard work, but in the end it will be soooo worth it!

thank you everyone, im not sure im closer to a decision though ^_~.
how much is Lebanese dialect really influenced by French? I know Tunisian is often referred to as "frarabic". I ask because I have never studied French, i did take some Spanish, but frankly i find it HARDER than Japanese (it sounds too similar and it's too tempting to think in English. Japanese is a clear switch and you can't confuse the Japanese alphabet with the English, even if you try ^_~ )

I just asked a Lebanese colleague about the French influence and he said "We Lebanese speak Arabic with our Lebanese accent. If we want to speak French, we will speak French." In his opinion there is no cross-pollination. (Phew, after the small Lebanese explosion I've learnt that this was a touchy, touchy subject )

Originally Posted by raqFariha

thank you everyone, im not sure im closer to a decision though ^_~.
how much is Lebanese dialect really influenced by French? I know Tunisian is often referred to as "frarabic". I ask because I have never studied French, i did take some Spanish, but frankly i find it HARDER than Japanese (it sounds too similar and it's too tempting to think in English. Japanese is a clear switch and you can't confuse the Japanese alphabet with the English, even if you try ^_~ )

Originally Posted by raqFariha

thank you everyone, im not sure im closer to a decision though ^_~.
how much is Lebanese dialect really influenced by French? I know Tunisian is often referred to as "frarabic". I ask because I have never studied French, i did take some Spanish, but frankly i find it HARDER than Japanese (it sounds too similar and it's too tempting to think in English. Japanese is a clear switch and you can't confuse the Japanese alphabet with the English, even if you try ^_~ )

Lebanese is not heavily influenced by French, IMO.

Originally Posted by Aziza_UAE

I just asked a Lebanese colleague about the French influence and he said "We Lebanese speak Arabic with our Lebanese accent. If we want to speak French, we will speak French." In his opinion there is no cross-pollination. (Phew, after the small Lebanese explosion I've learnt that this was a touchy, touchy subject )

pfew, thank you, and sorry that you got in trouble asking for me. i guess i was afraid of learning MSA and then needing to study French to be able to use it, im glad it's not the case.

Originally Posted by JeminaShikany

As you can probably tell from the other responses, there is no easy answer to this.

Here is where I am coming from...I have (and still am) studied MSA at a University for 2 years. I had two Moroccan teachers and one Jordanian teacher. The teachers often teach you words from their dialect as well. I am currently living in Lebanon and studying Arabic here as well. When I first came here it felt hopeless, my MSA felt useless in conversation , but after a few weeks that turned out to be incorrect and it has helped me a lot.

I personally would focus on Levantine dialect if you have a choice. As another said...you will be able to understand the lyrics either way once you get to a certain point and your patrons will like hearing you use their dialect, believe me...of course, if you try to speak with them they may correct you with their dialect anyway.

Keep in mind as another said, if you study in a University you will be using the textbook Al-Kitaab which is MSA, but it was written by Egyptians and all of the speakers in the DVDs are Egyptians so you can pick up A LOT of Egyptian dialect from that while you learn MSA if you pay attention. MSA is good for a foundation, but unless you want to go into Politics or something I would say only use it as a foundation. MSA is what is used in all of the newspapers and the news and Egyptian is, like previously mentioned, in many of the movies that are shown on tv throughout the Arabic speaking world.

Basically, if you can speak Levantine then you are closest to MSA (which many dictionaries use) and what is termed Classical Arabic so any Egyptian will understand you as well. At first they all feel like entirely different languages and when I started learning MSA I couldn't really speak to anyone who spoke anything other than MSA (so basically everyone except my teachers), mainly because I couldn't understand them. But if you stick with it (many do not, there is a 3% rate of college students who stick with Arabic through an advanced level) then once you get to a smooth conversational level you will be able to understand, speak, and translate anything you want - provided you have a few good dictionaries ;). You will always be learning and no matter what dialect you focus on you will always have influences form other dialects (music, your teachers, new people you speak with, travel, etc.).

I hope this helps and you can send me a message if you have any more questions that I could help with on this topic. Keep in mind, it is a tough language for English speakers (one of the most difficult), and it will take a lot of hard work, but in the end it will be soooo worth it!

i agree with this post...and if all else fails, just learn the egyptian dialect. ..g.:

I'm sure you each person giving you advice will have something different to say, because this is different based on so many things. And there is no right or wrong answer, in my opinion.

As it was said above, they will probably start you off with Modern Standard Arabic, and normally you have to have taken at least 2 semesters to start any colloquial courses.
If you want to understand the lyrics in the music, plan to visit Egypt, or have access to a lot of movies, then I would vote for Egyptian Arabic, because you would get the most out of it.
Another thing to consider is: whom will you practice with? What do they speak?
Although I took 2 Egyptian courses (requirement for degree) I didn't care for it so much, because I had absolutely no one to practice with. I knew 1 Egyptian person, and most others would not want to converse in Egyptian. They understand it and can speak it, but really don't want to. I'm glad I took the classes, though, because I have a basic understanding of Egyptian grammar, pronunciation, etc, and when people try to talk to me I can switch right away.
For my situation, I picked Iraqi, because 90 % of the Arabs I know are Iraqis so that made a lot of sense. But if they were Jordanians, Lebanese or Egyptians, etc, my choice would change.

So go with what will make it easier for you to practice and with the main goal in your mind.

I chose Lebanese because it has equal footing with Egyptian as being well understood by other Arabs. Although Egyptian movies still dominate, a lot of television programming has moved to Lebanon. Also, I like the way Lebanese rolls off the tongue versus Egyptian dialect.

- Now, what complicates things is that Urban Lebanese dialect (Beiruti) differs somewhat to dialects spoken in villages.

- There is also a tendency for Lebanese to do "code-switching" or flipping vocabulary around in favour of foreign vocabulary. Code-switching is a matter of personal preference. In Lebanon, some of my friends use more code-switching than others. I have noticed that Lebanese who are less interested in Arab culture employ more code-switching.

- Urban Lebanese is also quite close to urban Syrian and Palestinian dialects (sometimes called Damascus and Jerusalem dialect). They differ slightly in pronunciation of certain letters, vocabulary, etc. However, they are the same in their "dropping" of the letter qaf and a hamza put in its place and the usage of the classical pronuciation of the letter jeem. Village dialects differ more so (for example, in Druzi dialect, the qaf is retained).

- Saying that Jordanian and Lebanese are similar is not entirely true. First off, Jordanian dialect isn't a dialect. The people who inhabit what is now Jordan were sedentary Bedouin, so their dialect is similar to other Bedouins. After the Nakba (The Palestinian exodus of their homes after the creation of Israel) a large influx of Palestinians came to Jordan. They were granted citizenship and make up the bulk of people who now live in Jordan today. So in reality, two main dialects exist in Jordan: one that is Bedouin and one that is Palestinian.

Hope this helps!

Arabic lingustics & dialectology student checking in and I've never heard that levantine arabic is the closest to MSA.

The closest dialects to MSA are the Jordanian bedoiun dialect and the najdi dialect (central saudi arabia).


As far as I know, the lebanese dialect does have french influence in some vocab words, like many of the countries that have been colonized by France.

As for North African dialects, a lot of misinformation goes around about those among Arabs and everyone. But once the North African dialects are dissected and studied, they are over 95% Arabic. Period. It's just the pronunciation and stress of the words that is vastly different from MSA, not the vocab or the grammar patterns. I feel that middle easterners (and others)tend to exaggerate the French influence of the North African dialects because they can't understand it ..l;,


Back to the question at hand, the most useful dialect to learn is Egyptian and levantine is climbing up there with it. I would still advise people with Egyptian as you'll be more widely understood.

I second Egyptian, for the above mentioned reasons. For really serious studies, both MSA and Egyptian.

The Palestinian/ Jordanian dialect is closest to MSA and therefore understood well by most people. As long as you don't get into the "ch" stuff (ch instead of k ie chursi instead of kursi, chayf halich instead of kayf halik) its also closest in pronunciation. The syrian and lebanese have more french and also their accent is a lot more off. Egyptian, though not as close to MSA, is also understood well by most people because of the media. I say go with what you have access too--if you know a lot of Egyptians study MSA and learn conversational Arabic from them; if you know a lot of lebanese, same thing--whatever you will actually use. If you don't know any Arabs, go to the mosque (friday around the prayer is a good time--usually about 1 or 1:30) and insha allah there will be sisters there who speak arabic and you can converse with them. as with any language, the conversations are really important. try to get some kids videos too--they are helpful and easier to follow than adult. adnan wa lina is a really funny cartoon mini-series, the storyline is great, and the language is just beautiful (classical arabic)

Originally Posted by sharifeh

Arabic lingustics & dialectology student checking in and I've never heard that levantine arabic is the closest to MSA.

The closest dialects to MSA are the Jordanian bedoiun dialect and the najdi dialect (central saudi arabia).


As far as I know, the lebanese dialect does have french influence in some vocab words, like many of the countries that have been colonized by France.

As for North African dialects, a lot of misinformation goes around about those among Arabs and everyone. But once the North African dialects are dissected and studied, they are over 95% Arabic. Period. It's just the pronunciation and stress of the words that is vastly different from MSA, not the vocab or the grammar patterns. I feel that middle easterners (and others)tend to exaggerate the French influence of the North African dialects because they can't understand it ..l;,


Back to the question at hand, the most useful dialect to learn is Egyptian and levantine is climbing up there with it. I would still advise people with Egyptian as you'll be more widely understood.

I just read this after I posted. And I posted that the Palestinian/ Jordanian Shami accent was closest to MSA because thats what all of the Arabs say lol...

I also agree with you about the North African dialect. I've yet to meet a north african who can't speak and be completely understood by another arab. Its only when they get going amongst themselves that other arabs get left . dh has no problem with a single Moroccan or two. HE has no problems with 4 moroccans and 2, egyptians, and a palestinian. but put him in a group with 7 moroccans and he does start to get a little lost.

Originally Posted by sharifeh

Arabic lingustics & dialectology student checking in and I've never heard that levantine arabic is the closest to MSA.

The closest dialects to MSA are the Jordanian bedoiun dialect and the najdi dialect (central saudi arabia).


As far as I know, the lebanese dialect does have french influence in some vocab words, like many of the countries that have been colonized by France.

As for North African dialects, a lot of misinformation goes around about those among Arabs and everyone. But once the North African dialects are dissected and studied, they are over 95% Arabic. Period. It's just the pronunciation and stress of the words that is vastly different from MSA, not the vocab or the grammar patterns. I feel that middle easterners (and others)tend to exaggerate the French influence of the North African dialects because they can't understand it ..l;,


Back to the question at hand, the most useful dialect to learn is Egyptian and levantine is climbing up there with it. I would still advise people with Egyptian as you'll be more widely understood.

Agree totally!

I vote for Egyptian. i have noticed that when mu husband speaks to lebanese, palestenians, saudis and so forth that they can all understand him. He speaks the Egyptian dialect. The problem is that he has a very hard time understanding what they are saying because they use so many mixed word.
Many, many songs and movies are in Egyptian as it is like the Hollywood of the middle east.

Moroccan, Is The easy For You <3