Thread: Maybe Nubian ???

Can anyone identify this music please.

Nubian would have a very different structure. If you have to categorize this one, it would be sufi.
The bit is called "Abshero Ya Shabab" from Mohammad Mounir's El Ard El Salam album.

Shall we youtube it? (with lyrics to boot).

Thank you so much.

xxx

Originally Posted by Alexandrian

If you have to categorize this one, it would be sufi.
The bit is called "Abshero Ya Shabab" from Mohammad Mounir's El Ard El Salam album.

Considering the religious themes on this album, would you recommend that dancers stay away from using it for performances?


...Mohammed Mounir threadjack!

Alexandrian, do you know what language he is singing here? Am I imagining that this isn't regular Egyptian Arabic? I've read that he occasionally records in local Nubian dialects. Is this one of them?




Do you have anything on this song? Some kind of sea shanty?

Yah. A dancer should be fully aware of what a sufi song entails. The lyrics are not simply spiritual but overtly religious. Nevertheless, I've been playing this music for dancers, albeit exclusively male, for a generation now and the results are sometimes spectacular.

Mounir rarely sings Nubian (Haneena which you've included below is one of very few). He does occasionally sing colloquial Egyptian with a Nubian accent which is what he spoke growing up.
My apologies for another threadjack but, while we're on the subject of Nubian, have you listened to Hamza Alaa El Din?

Bahr El Hayah is about life's ebb and flow with a bit of Topsy Turvy thrown in. I kinda like it. It's by Ahmad Farhat and Amir Taeimah from "Ahmar Shafayef". On that same album, check out Ah Yasmarani اه ياسمراني اللون by team Abdel Rahman Al Abnoudi/Baligh Hamdi (originally sung by Shadiah).

Originally Posted by Alexandrian

Mounir rarely sings Nubian (Haneena which you've included below is one of very few). He does occasionally sing colloquial Egyptian with a Nubian accent which is what he spoke growing up.

I'm relieved to know there's a reason it sounded so unfamiliar!

My apologies for another threadjack but, while we're on the subject of Nubian, have you listened to Hamza Alaa El Din?

I know who he is, but I'm not terribly familiar with him beyond that he played oud and was friends with Mickey Hart. He doesn't seem to be well represented at the music sites I spend the most time at, and I haven't studied much Nubian dance, so other music almost always takes higher priority for me. I can't say it helped much that one of the first things I came across by him was his version of "Lamma Bada Yatathana," which did not strike me as a particularly good showcase for his vocals.

Bahr El Hayah is about life's ebb and flow with a bit of Topsy Turvy thrown in. I kinda like it.

The music reminds me of the rolling of a boat in the water. Mounir draws from such a diverse pool of inspiration that I was wondering if it was based on an older song about working on a boat or something.

It's by Ahmad Farhat and Amir Taeimah from "Ahmar Shafayef". On that same album, check out Ah Yasmarani اه ياسمراني اللون by team Abdel Rahman Al Abnoudi/Baligh Hamdi (originally sung by Shadiah).

You'd be hard pressed to find a better pop record than "Ahmar Shafayef." The songs are catchy and distinctive, and the production is outstanding. I come across so many records that are just a mushy blur, but that was one I loved from the first time I heard it.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I know who he is, but I'm not terribly familiar with him beyond that he played oud and was friends with Mickey Hart. He doesn't seem to be well represented at the music sites I spend the most time at, and I haven't studied much Nubian dance, so other music almost always takes higher priority for me. I can't say it helped much that one of the first things I came across by him was his version of "Lamma Bada Yatathana," which did not strike me as a particularly good showcase for his vocals.

It's likely the main reason Hamzah Alaa Eldin is not well represented on Arabic websites is that for thirty years the Egyptian propaganda apparatus labored very effectively to remove him from public consciousness. Fortunately, Egyptians seem to have rediscovered who the man was and the extent of his genius.
So you found his "Lamma Bada Yatathanna" underwhelming. It's a bit sparse but there's a reason for that. His is intended as a teaching tool and it's indeed the one version that is most used in Egyptian music institutes. If you ever revisit, I hope you run into something more intriguing.

Originally Posted by Alexandrian

It's likely the main reason Hamzah Alaa Eldin is not well represented on Arabic websites is that for thirty years the Egyptian propaganda apparatus labored very effectively to remove him from public consciousness. Fortunately, Egyptians seem to have rediscovered who the man was and the extent of his genius.

I think it's more than that, because those sites do the same thing to singers like Rachid Taha and Natacha Atlas. If you record in the West on Western labels, you may as well not even exist.

So you found his "Lamma Bada Yatathanna" underwhelming. It's a bit sparse but there's a reason for that. His is intended as a teaching tool and it's indeed the one version that is most used in Egyptian music institutes.

I don't mind that it was sparse. It bothered me that his voice was straining to hit the low notes.

If you ever revisit, I hope you run into something more intriguing.

If you have particular titles to suggest, I'll be happy to hunt them down.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I think it's more than that, because those sites do the same thing to singers like Rachid Taha and Natacha Atlas. If you record in the West on Western labels, you may as well not even exist.

In Alaa El Din's case, it was his ceasless efforts decrying the great injustice done to Nubia and it's people during and after the building of the Aswan Dam.

Here are a couple of my favorites of his (in no particular order).

نوبة لا
A Wish
يا عرافة
النوبه

Originally Posted by Alexandrian

In Alaa El Din's case, it was his ceasless efforts decrying the great injustice done to Nubia and it's people during and after the building of the Aswan Dam.

I'm not informed enough to comment on that, other than to say what looks like forward motion to one person might result in a huge setback to someone else. It rarely works out well to be on the wrong end of government-sanctioned progress.

Here are a couple of my favorites of his (in no particular order).

نوبة لا
A Wish
يا عرافة
النوبه

These are all done in the traditional Nubian style? I think these songs are better suited to the rawness of his voice than perhaps a classical muwashah was.

Okay, this is possibly a stupid question, but here goes... If he had wanted to sing "Lamma Bada Yatathanna" in a slightly higher key to better suit his lower vocal register, how much of a problem would that have been? I don't understand the maqamat very well, but I think that song is on Nahawand? So if you changed the original key, it would ripple over to whatever other ajnas were in the song, right? Is that not done often? Is it tacky to not be able to sing in the original key? Are there reasons why you'd want to stay in one key instead of changing? I'm thinking that it's unlikely an oud virtuoso would balk because he didn't know how to transpose to a different key.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I'm not informed enough to comment on that, other than to say what looks like forward motion to one person might result in a huge setback to someone else. It rarely works out well to be on the wrong end of government-sanctioned progress.

It was definitely progress. However, the process of allocating resources to the displaced population was disgraceful to say the least. But I took this one waaaay off topic. My apologies.

If he had wanted to sing "Lamma Bada Yatathanna" in a slightly higher key to better suit his lower vocal register, how much of a problem would that have been? I don't understand the maqamat very well, but I think that song is on Nahawand? So if you changed the original key, it would ripple over to whatever other ajnas were in the song, right? Is that not done often? Is it tacky to not be able to sing in the original key? Are there reasons why you'd want to stay in one key instead of changing? I'm thinking that it's unlikely an oud virtuoso would balk because he didn't know how to transpose to a different key.

I think that depends on several factors. What the music means to you and how closely do you want to adhere to the composer's wishes plays a big role in that decision. Who you are and what's expected from you can also restrict your choices. Also, the nature of the composition and its historic and artistic value is of obvious importance.
I struggle with the lowest notes on this one but I personally couldn't bring myself to switch keys on it. I go as far as refusing to switch octaves at those low notes as many singers do. My choice is based on this being a beautifully delicate century and a half old essential classic that has highly significant historical and artistic value as an early Egyptian Muwashah.
But, in the end, it's a personal decision that audience will judge and evaluate.

Originally Posted by Alexandrian

It was definitely progress. However, the process of allocating resources to the displaced population was disgraceful to say the least. But I took this one waaaay off topic. My apologies.

It might be off topic to the immediate issue of whether the song in the first post was Nubian, but I don't think it merits an apology. The subsequent discussion has raised two important points for anyone who might be reading this thread to learn about Nubian music:

1. Not every record by a Nubian musician is suitable for Nubian dance. In addition to traditional folk music, Nubians also record modern ME music and fusion, oldies and classical songs, and even music with religious, social, or political themes that wouldn't be suitable for most dance applications.

2. Because of the way that the Egyptian government handled Nubian resettlement after the building of the Aswan Dam, anyone thinking about presenting Nubian dance should be aware of the possible political sensitivity that exists--particularly as it relates to folk music, but also as a general issue of being culturally informed.

In other words, the creative output of Nubian musicians is rich and multifaceted, not one obvious, mistake-proof thing. Always research your songs before getting on stage.

In other words, the creative output of Nubian musicians is rich and multifaceted, not one obvious, mistake-proof thing. Always research your songs before getting on stage.[/QUOTE]

Which is why I asked about the song in the first place