Thread: Your thoughts on what makes a famous american BDer

Ok So I am wondering, what makes the American belly dancers famous. I know that there are several ways. I.E. Belly dance super stars, but I am not talking about them. I am talking about the really good dancers like TanyaLV, Michelle Joyce, Aradia, Dondi Etc.......I know there are more but I dont want to list them all her. Is it a combination of their fab hair and tight body. There tireless hours of practice, good advertising, the internet world? GREAT teachers? Or even famous teachers.......What do you think are the KEY elements to becoming a dancer of that caliber? Do you NEED to study in turkey or egypt? Visit those places? have a teacher from there? and would it be possible to become that good with out those things?

Well, they all do have fab hair and tight bodies, but I don't think it makes them because a lot of people have those things and go on living anonymous lives.

Obviously first you have to be a great dancer. Second, you need a great personality, both to connect while performing with the audience and to network with other dancers. Advertising is clearly very important - you need your name out there. A lot of great teachers and dancers are not known simply because they are not advertising themselves on a national level. I think it helps to get out a video on iamed or hollywood videos, to get known. That's when I notice a dancer (unless of course she's on Bhuz). Then, I"ll notice them if they are teaching a workshop on the national circuit or maybe I see an amazing performance at Rakassah.

Ooh, I actually think this one's a toughy!

I'd say, first of all, years of experience. But experience doesn't mean crap unless there's hard work involved. So then it is a matter of ALOT of practice, exposure to the culture(s) and dance itself, and knowledge of the dance in general (costume, stage persona, dance styles, what to do and what not do, venues, how to deal with patrons, choreos in different, and the list goes on and on!) Then, there's personality. Dull people get nowhere. There must be a passion and drive to the dancer, and a uniqueness. You can't be afraid of trying new things or going to the next level. I'd say personality plays a major role in advertising. Word of mouth is probably the best in a community. But with our culture (I believe you said American bder), big advertising is almost a must.

Just my opinion.

Hmm... I'd like to here what others have to say, because here is where I get stuck.

Wow..I was on Annwyn's list..............

thanks Annwyn!!!..g.: For me it's about if the dancer can back it up. I've seen dancers market the crap out of themselves attend all the events and smooze, but their "real training" is very limited. Maybe they took the 2 years of instruction they got and ran with it, learned to do it well, have great stage presence and are likeable, but they are the dancer that once you've seen them, that's about it, they have no range or depth.
So to me it's a dancer who is well educated in the aspects of oriental dance, and doesn't do it just for the attention and ego boost, but who's style changes and evolves over time because she continues to grow and improve, even 20-30 years after her first class. The dancer who also takes chances in her performances, regardless of how scary or uncomfortable, and doesn't do the same old thing because she knows it well.
A genuine personality is key, vs. the fake put on. You can tell when someone is a good person and has a kind heart, it shows in their dance (Aziza comes to mind, she just glows)!

So yes, it's a hard question, (and a very good one!!) because we all have different idea's of what makes a true pro, and a dancer worthy of being famous. I've seen some very famous dancers that made me scratch my head and say "you're kidding, right?" And I've found some real gems that aren't as well kown, but blow most dancers out of the water.
I guess marketing is a big part of it, and being willing to put yourself out there, but like I said at the beginning, she better be able to back it up, or she'll just be a flash in the pan, the newbies may like her, but her peers won't have the respect for her to withstand long term fame. I remember a dancer out of CA who this happened to, maybe more dedication to taking workshops, privates and mentoring would have helped her stay on top.

Being a good dancer and a good teacher are also different things. Some people are good performers but then can't teach. Being a good teacher in my opinion, requires more than the "know how" and isn't justified by years of dancing either. A good teacher doesn't fool the professional...alot of beginning/intermediate students sometimes are an easy sell..because that is who is marketed and thought to be good.
Then, the teachers who are better off in the studio and not performing. It is hard to find a well rounded dancers that has it all really. You can market yourself everywhere and it does work to a point...but you gotta back it up with something!
A personality is a must and a true love for the dance should show. STAGE PRESENCE is a must! Also someone worthy of making it to "the top" shouldn't have a competitive bone in her body. We all should be happy with who we are and where we are as dancers...and not be concerned with what others are up to. Being nice and being a good person...gets ya far!

Originally Posted by TanyaLV

Being a good dancer and a good teacher are also different things. Some people are good performers but then can't teach. Being a good teacher in my opinion, requires more than the "know how" and isn't justified by years of dancing either. A good teacher doesn't fool the professional...alot of beginning/intermediate students sometimes are an easy sell..because that is who is marketed and thought to be good.
Then, the teachers who are better off in the studio and not performing. It is hard to find a well rounded dancers that has it all really. You can market yourself everywhere and it does work to a point...but you gotta back it up with something!
A personality is a must and a true love for the dance should show. STAGE PRESENCE is a must! Also someone worthy of making it to "the top" shouldn't have a competitive bone in her body. We all should be happy with who we are and where we are as dancers...and not be concerned with what others are up to. Being nice and being a good person...gets ya far!

Yup, I totally agree!

I also think there are different degrees of "famous" - there is "online famous" and "real world famous". Some dancers I think are "famous" because of their big online presence - but when I mention them to dancers I know who are not in online communities like Bhuz and Orientaldancer.net, they say "Who?"

Someone like Suhaila, on the other hand, is an American dancer that is famous on and off the internet.

I think you can become "online famous" just by having an internet presence - I know I have only seen a few video clips of some of the dancers I think of as "famous"! But "real world famous" dancers are dancers who teach workshops, who perform at all the festivals, who have successful dvds, etc.

Originally Posted by TanyaLV

Wow..I was on Annwyn's list..............

Yes, you're so famous that I haven't even seen you dance, but I had a dream where I saw you perform on a big stage. (Also, Kami Liddle was there - my brain knows how to put on a good show.)

i think it is "staying power".sticking it out through all the changes /morphs/splits/fusion in the art through the years. the older dancers come from a time
whos values are still upheld today.
there is "area famous" and "style" famous too.or famous for a "move".

I think it's a combination of sheer talent and stage presence, ability to market themselves, and quite honestly luck. There's no one formula, but I do think a dancer who puts herself out there in competitions, large festival stages, etc. will be more likely to become famous on such a large level. We all have "famous" dancers in our regions, but if you travel to another state people may not know who you're talking about. Traveling to festivals, competitions, workshops...all over the country might even be a good start.

I think the internet is an extremely powerful tool and will change the face of our dance. We now possess the ability to very easily reach people on a global level! Think of how many people see you on Bhuz! It's staggaring.

YES for sure there are different levels of "famous". I don't consider myself famous...so I hope that no one is taking me that way ! :)

I do think the belly dance circle has it's own celebrities. Dancers who compete arrive at one level, while others go on to teach workshops and gain a different kind of recognition . There are plenty of ways to get recognition. I personally have not done much in the "belly dance scene". I work for a living as a dancer..travel all over the world to perform...and just attend festivals to watch others and to shop! I don't dance much for other dancers really.
I am not out to be famous...just do what I love and perform. If I gain recognition for that in the belly dance scene that is wonderful...if I gain popularity by meeting friends online selling costumes...great...the social aspect of this business keeps me interested. I have met amazing people...and thank goodness for the internet...by the time I meet someone in person, I feel I already know them!

There are alot of ambitious dancers out there. Some ready for this business and some not...but there is room for everybody.

Famous sometime, is in the eye of the beholder...we all like different qualities in a teacher and performer. There are many popular teachers that aren't my "cup of tea"...but they are to someone else. Not everyone will like my dancing...but I am not out to please the masses....just to enjoy what I do. I can always find something good about everyone no matter who it is...that is the joy of this dance...is that everyone can and should be unique!

Now excuse me while I go work on getting famous! haha!

Also I have to add that I am not sure how many normal people and general audiences know of any "famous" belly dancers..or even known for that matter. Maybe locally or if you travel you have a wider audience that is familiar with you.

I feel it is kept in a circle...and we all know as dancers who they are...but it is hard to get someone to say a name of a popular dancer...sad with everyone working so hard..but true.

Shakira is the closest thing to fame and bellydancing to the general public....ya know?

Be hot, be good (being great is even better), get exposure...and you might get lucky!

This is an interesting topic because as others have said, the issue of "fame" or lack thereof in this dance form is pretty much localized to our little community, and most outside that community know very little about who the "famous" American dancers are. The dancers who are totally unknown and/or not respected within the dance community might be the very ones who are the busiest getting the paid gigs in their local area, or vice versa. There are different levels of "success" in bellydance, and they can be quite different from one another.

When I think of who the famous American dancers are, time is a big factor for me. If that dancer has become established over a long period of time and has made multiple contributions to the dance, then I think of that dancer as famous. Dancers who are talented and hot and happenin' now I think of more as "popular" or "talented" dancers, not so much as "famous", though they may be in the future. I agree that the internet is creating somewhat of an artificial sense of what "fame" is, not just in bellydance but in every area of life. Heck, random teenagers are getting "famous" just for having a Myspace page or a blog! So I think we have to remember that there is still a distinction between truly famous, and popular/talented/visible, and also that this is within a limited circle.

It would be interesting to walk up to people randomly on the street and ask them to name a famous American bellydancer. I'd bet most people would be stumped. Maybe a few would say "Shakira" ..(lol..not even American!) or "Neena and Veena" (their videos are hard to miss!) but I'd be surprised if anyone knew of our truly famous American stars outside of their local areas, or even knew who Jillina is, even with her massive BDSS exposure and the "American Bellydancer" film.

Then again, I'd bet you'd get a few "Rachel Brice" answers. There is some essence that woman has that seems to have tapped into the cultural psyche on the level of Marilyn Monroe... I predict that there are going to be "Rachel Brice" coffeetable books in 50 years...lol...

I truly believe that a dancer who knows dance inside and out, has depth, deliverance, musicality, knowledge and the ability to travel for events to showcase her talent has a GREAT chance in becoming "famous" is she wants to.
If you posses all of the above, the dance community will love you and respect you as a dancer and then your "fame" will follow you.

Originally Posted by TanyaLV

Wow..I was on Annwyn's list..............

LOL! I had the same reaction!

Originally Posted by Lilladancer

This is an interesting topic because as others have said, the issue of "fame" or lack thereof in this dance form is pretty much localized to our little community, and most outside that community know very little about who the "famous" American dancers are. The dancers who are totally unknown and/or not respected within the dance community might be the very ones who are the busiest getting the paid gigs in their local area, or vice versa. There are different levels of "success" in bellydance, and they can be quite different from one another.

So true...."fame" in the bellydance world is so different from "fame" in other performing arts. Much more localized.

When I think of who the famous American dancers are, time is a big factor for me. If that dancer has become established over a long period of time and has made multiple contributions to the dance, then I think of that dancer as famous. Dancers who are talented and hot and happenin' now I think of more as "popular" or "talented" dancers, not so much as "famous", though they may be in the future. I agree that the internet is creating somewhat of an artificial sense of what "fame" is, not just in bellydance but in every area of life. Heck, random teenagers are getting "famous" just for having a Myspace page or a blog! So I think we have to remember that there is still a distinction between truly famous, and popular/talented/visible, and also that this is within a limited circle.

Yep, this was the point I was trying to make, and I agree - it's not just bellydance that experiences the "internet" fame vs. "real life" fame - it's everywhere. Youtube can make you a celebrity overnight!

It would be interesting to walk up to people randomly on the street and ask them to name a famous American bellydancer. I'd bet most people would be stumped. Maybe a few would say "Shakira" ..(lol..not even American!) or "Neena and Veena" (their videos are hard to miss!) but I'd be surprised if anyone knew of our truly famous American stars outside of their local areas, or even knew who Jillina is, even with her massive BDSS exposure and the "American Bellydancer" film.

I am sure you are 100% right - I'd be willing to bet that EVERYONE said Shakira was the most famous American bellydancer.

I wasn't even thinking of the GP when I saw this question - I honestly don't expect them to know ANY bellydancers (other than Shakira). I was just thinking about other bellydancers - those who use the internet as a networking tool and those who don't.

Originally Posted by danielabellydance

I wasn't even thinking of the GP when I saw this question - I honestly don't expect them to know ANY bellydancers (other than Shakira). I was just thinking about other bellydancers - those who use the internet as a networking tool and those who don't.

Yeah, I realized after I wrote my post that I had elaborated beyond the scope of the original question. I tend to do that when I start thinking further and further about an interesting topic. It is an interesting thought to ponder though!

The thing that these dancers all have in common are they are all really incredible dancers, They are famous with in our little group. I guess that is what I ment. I dont care about the general publics opinion, they dont know anything about belly dance anyways.So I ment to say Famous with in the belly dance community......