Thread: Is it ethical to shave a little off the sides?

OK, so I was just wondering how people feel about "airbrushing" photos of yourself from photoshoots and performances. I recently got this lovely picture from my boyfriend, but I can't help noticing the spillage. I was wondering if you would edit yourself to make yourself look slimmer? I've done it before, especially since I just put on a lot of extra weight.

What would a belly dancer do?
Ethical or not? Oh, maybe I'll make a poll...

Oooh, this is a GOOD question!

I would say no to altering photos.

Please take a pole.
I'd love to see the results!
:-)

Originally Posted by andalee-oriental

OK, so I was just wondering how people feel about "airbrushing" photos of yourself from photoshoots and performances. I recently got this lovely picture from my boyfriend, but I can't help noticing the spillage. I was wondering if you would edit yourself to make yourself look slimmer? I've done it before, especially since I just put on a lot of extra weight.

What would a belly dancer do?
Ethical or not? Oh, maybe I'll make a poll...

i don't think it's bad to improve upon a photo...i guess it would depend on how much you altered it. i would want cellulite/streach marks air brushed out of mine...not that i have any ..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,..cr.:

if you are altering it and by doing so drastically changing your apperance and thus advertising a false immage than it's probably not a good idea. but on the other hand wearing false eyelashes, makeup etc is altering your look....people take the red eye out of photos, lighten them ...darken them all the time...so i guess it depends on where you draw the line.

good question!

altering via an extra cup size thru photo-shop poofage, bum shaving or waist cinching without girdle or corset? not a good idea...for the reasons mentioned above..........for your own use, ok, but if you're using that image for advertisement or promo material, people will expect that enhanced image........nothing wrong with extra pounds if one carries themselves well, dresses to dimensions and is polished.......just be you!

I'll correct bad lighting, slightly closed eyes, awkward poses that create strange creases in the neck or back of arms, etc. I'll powder my nose, cover a bruise, brighten up a shadow that fell across my face, etc.

I won't increase my bust size, trim my waist, etc. I *might* do that if I had some great photos taken and then lost 20 pounds!

The important thing is that the person who shows up for a gig is the same person they saw in the photos. I'll be showing up for a gig in my false eyelashes and ponytail, but I won't be showing up without my stretch marks or poochy belly, so I leave them in my photos (much as it pains me).

Pics that aren't for promo use are a different animal, though. I've tidied up my bod for pics I was using to sell a costume, just cuz the photos that show off the costume best are embarrassingly bad shots of me!!

I would fix minor things such as a gapping costume, a little muffin top, cellulite, stretchmarks, bruises, etc.

As long as you're not taking 20 pounds or 20 years off via photoshop, I don't think it's unethical. Smoothing out minor bumps and rolls and smoothing skin to present yourself in the best possible light in photos is fine, as long as you don't end up with an image that doesn't look like the real you.

I'm with tamrahennatx here.

And I'd really like to know how to powder my nose in Photoshop! I've got some photos I would love to use if it weren't for the shine -- I didn't think they were salvageable.

Originally Posted by Zana

I'm with tamrahennatx here.

And I'd really like to know how to powder my nose in Photoshop! I've got some photos I would love to use if it weren't for the shine -- I didn't think they were salvageable.

I use the healing brush tool. You could also use the blur tool. Maybe even the color replacement too. I find a combo of the healing brush with a little blur works best.

I've noticed that in most of the bellydance DVD covers I own the instructor/performer is airbrushed (photoshopped).
Personally I think it is acceptable provided that it is very well done, and it still looks like you.

So here's what I did...

I removed my fat roll on the sides in this picture:


OK?

Here is the pic I want to shave a little. Just that hangy down bit above my bra:


BTW I am dieting right now to try to lose some weight, so we'll see...

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

...As long as you're not taking 20 pounds or 20 years off...as long as you don't end up with an image that doesn't look like the real you.

Ok, so what about using a photo that is 20 years old? 30? How many promo pictures have you seen that don't look anything like the actual person? (First one that comes to mind is Robert Redford, so I'm not just thinking bellydance).

How is using an old picture that is no longer representative different than photoshopping a current picture? Just looking for opinions here, not pointing fingers.

Ditto what Tamra Henna said.

As for outdated pictures? Well, I think they help to show you've been dancing for a long time, and they're totally fine so long as you date the pictures and include current ones.

Let's face it - appearance does matter in this business. People will not be very pleased if the dancer showing up at their door bears little resemblance to the beautiful pictures posted on your website.

But sure - why not clear up a few pimples or iron out a roll or two? So long as you're sensible about it, and not making any major adjustments, I think it's fine.

Originally Posted by andalee-oriental

So here's what I did...

I removed my fat roll on the sides in this picture:


OK?

Here is the pic I want to shave a little. Just that hangy down bit above my bra:


BTW I am dieting right now to try to lose some weight, so we'll see...

Well, to answer your original question, they say that the camera adds 15 pounds, that's why models have to be under-weight. So I think that smoothing out lumps is okay, but has to be done well so that the retouching isn't obvious and so that you still look like the person in the photo when you show up for the gig, as others have mentioned.

That said, I don't think the hangy down bit above your bra looks bad.

For powdering the nose in PhotoShop I use the airbrush tool at about 25-30% opacity.

I have no problems with minor touches. I shave mufin tops slightly, remove any costume gaps, fix blemishes, and have repositioned jewelry.

And I just make sure it still looks like me. I want to remove the things that only bother me...and keep it me. I've commented a little on when I have used photoshop to tweek.

Bug Girl's Tokyo Story - Photoshop touch-up
Bug Girl's Tokyo Story - Nathan's photos

Andalee, I don't think it is is wrong to shave off that little pudge over your bra strap - it's only hanging there because of your pose anyway! It's one of those "great pic but awkard pose" shots - nothing wrong with taking that off!

Originally Posted by danielabellydance

Andalee, I don't think it is is wrong to shave off that little pudge over your bra strap - it's only hanging there because of your pose anyway! It's one of those "great pic but awkard pose" shots - nothing wrong with taking that off!

Agreed. Same is true with some 'rolls' that wouldn't have appeared if it weren't for a slight twist in the pose.

For powdering noses in photoshop (and most makeup touchups) I first create a new layer to work on.

With the eyedropper, I pick up the skin tone I want to work with. Then I use a soft-edged paintbrush or airbrush to 'powder' the entire face, except for the eye area up to the brows, nostrils and lips. Be sure to go down the neck, too. (I often 'powder' the chest, too)

You can do it at 100% opacity so it's really clear where you're painting, it'll look like you're wearing a crazy mask.

Then use the slider bar on the layers menu to adjust the opacity of the whole layer. I usually wind up somewhere between 10% and 35% for a natural but fresh look, depending on the photo.

I often add a hint of blush using the same technique before I flatten or merge the two layers together.

I use the eraser to touch up any areas where I went too far.

shave it off! photoshop like crazy! Just don't turn yourself into a barbie or make yourself a different person. I can personally guarantee you from working in the photo industry for many years that every image in a magazine, every advertising image, most images on the web are retouched in ways you don't want to know. It isn't unethical but it is unfortunate that our society is only satisfied with viewing the unattainable and unnatural. All my photos are retouched and smoothed out. But I didn't make myself look like a stick cause that's not me.

I used to do work as a digital retoucher in a professional photo lab. It's amazing all the stuff that people would want retouched on their wedding photos, senior pictures, etc. People would ask for retouching stuff that made them look like completely different people.

I agree with pretty much everyone that's already commented. Retouching little stuff to polish your look is fine (I like to take down shine, soften eye bags, remove stray hairs, smooth out costume and veil winkles, etc.); retouching until you look like someone you're not is not fine.

Originally Posted by nimah

I used to do work as a digital retoucher in a professional photo lab. It's amazing all the stuff that people would want retouched on their wedding photos, senior pictures, etc. People would ask for retouching stuff that made them look like completely different people.

I know someone who does that for Playboy. He has some pretty crazy stories to tell.

yes, by all means, especially when it's something silly caused by a pose, shadow, etc!

but make sure you photoshop well enough, or you may receive "better photoshopped" images from your ex that are definitely more of the 'slick model' look...or maybe that's just my crazy ex who apparently stalks me somehow and sends those "hope you don't think this is weird, but..." emails ,m::

Originally Posted by andalee-oriental

I know someone who does that for Playboy. He has some pretty crazy stories to tell.

OMG, he must spend thousands of hours staring at nipples! ..g.:

In my mind there's a difference between a photo that's being used to sell a dancer (where you're going to show up and people expect you to look like that) vs. a situation where the photo IS the product, like in a centerfold or wedding pics.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

In my mind there's a difference between a photo that's being used to sell a dancer (where you're going to show up and people expect you to look like that) vs. a situation where the photo IS the product, like in a centerfold or wedding pics.

Exactly....a BIG difference!!

~~Kimahri

Originally Posted by Lauren_

In my mind there's a difference between a photo that's being used to sell a dancer (where you're going to show up and people expect you to look like that) vs. a situation where the photo IS the product, like in a centerfold or wedding pics.

Well said! I agree. I want people to know exactly what I look like and do before they hire me. Happy customers make for a happy belly dancer. :) To me that has meant little to no touch ups for my website/promo photos (which are professionally done, current unless clearly marked otherwise, and feature good lighting, full make-up and pro costumes), and these days includes video footage. If a picture is not what I want to present for promotional purposes, I just don't use it for the GP.

I know plenty of folks who disagree, but it is what I can live with for myself. So far so good, and I still get work warts* and all.


*not literally ;)

I didnt read all the posts so sorry If I repeate something. I am going to say yes, I would. Here is my reason, for me personaly I am a yoyoer I can go up and down about 20 lbs so it is hard to get an accurate pic of me. As soon as I take one I gain or loose. Triming of a bit here and there to remove muffin top doesnt hurt, now making some one who is 5'2 brunet a 5'10 blond well that is a whole nother story and I dont think that is what you are trying to do. So go for it and just make sure that you still look like you when you are done

Originally Posted by bakhtiyaar

Ok, so what about using a photo that is 20 years old? 30? How many promo pictures have you seen that don't look anything like the actual person? (First one that comes to mind is Robert Redford, so I'm not just thinking bellydance).

For me, it depends on the context of the photo and what purpose it is serving.

If the photo is on a business card or on a part of the web site that is promoting my availability as a performer, then it needs to be current. For example, the photo currently on the home page of my web site is only two years old, and I intend to replace it soon with a photo that was taken of me just 2 weeks ago.

However, if the photo is being used in a different context, I don't feel a need for it to be current. For example, if a given web page's purpose is to address "frequently asked questions about belly dancing" or "what to wear to class", I see no need to restrict myself to using only current photos in this context.

Photoshop it. It is a minor thing caused by the way that you are posing. No one who hires you is going to see you moving and say hey...there is a fat roll I didn't see in your photo!

Another good thing to try is messing with the (transform - scale) of the image. You can pull/stretch yourself slightly using that tool and you'd be amazed what that does! Sometimes you won't need to shave anything off. If I were doing your photo I would make you slightly taller, take off the upper under arm ever so slightly, and smooth out the belly crease on the side, and take off the hanging down bit above your bra - just a side effect of the pose really. Then I would adjust the color and take it down a little because you look washed out - maybe add a slight warming filter. Then go down and dirty at 300% and fix up any blemishes, unfortunate shadows or lines. Then I would adjust the contrast and voila! That's pretty much the gist of what any retoucher would do. I have been asked to take jobs retouching soft porn/playboy type stuff. I turned it down because I anticipated it getting really boring retouching people's butts all day. But I have done wacky things like removed the maid or honor from wedding photos because the bride and her BFF got in a fight after the wedding. And making fake thick lashes for eye-makeup ads. I used to retouch Guess? campaigns, high end weddings, st. john knits ads and the like.

I photoshop my pics sometimes...nothing major...but I try and get rid if stretch marks...muffin top or the backfat or side rolls..I think editing the photos you posted are fine...it is just an enhancement not a total makeover....