Thread: how to wear gypsy without invoking the bag lady

we're doing this ...exercise..long story anyways of course i chose the gypsy. if i gypsy were to wear street clothes (it can be a bit flamboyant) how would one do a chic sorta gypsy without looking like a bag lady? maybe more fitted vests and busty tops? there's no way of getting around a big skirt..hmm any ideas? just brainstorming..

oh and without looking too hippie or tie dye-ish


Steve Nicks comes to mind..

Hmm. It is tricky the older you get IMO. You can get away with murder when you're young and fresh. I think keeping it relatively clean and uncluttered is the way to go, which of course seems the very opposite of gypsy fantasy. The trouble with Stevie Nicks is too much hair IMO. She also has quite a round baby face which doesn't necessarily lend it to a look of power and gravitas, which I think is what you need when you do gypsy aged over 30.

I just googled the model Verushka, who modelled some very cool gypsyish things back in the 60s, and I found this LJ entry with a bunch of fashion photos. ana_lee: Henry Clarke. Part two.

If you scroll down to the 60s hippy-Tangiers looking stuff, I think there are some answers there. The garments are big and flowing with huge dramatic patterns but the hair is severe and just one or two huge feature jewellery items are worn. Similarly you have some with big tumbling hair but the garments themselves are comparatively austere though they have lovely strong flowing shapes. Does this seem like the kind of thing you were after?

Check out this designer...
Gypsy Circus

Those are awesome links!

I'm fresh from the 'please don't call us Gypsies' lecture at the Elizabeth Artemis Mourat workshop, so I can't discuss any fantasies based around the G-word.

The easiest way would be textures. I like the Gypsy circus designs. You could go that way - fitted top and skirt with a head wrap and matchign 'belt'. I think it would be cool!

{{{HUGS}}}

Uuuuuuuh, you either go "Boho" or "bohemian" and leave the Romani out of it, or you research.

If you're planning to do any Turkish Romani dance, you don't needa big honking skirt, just one large enough to dance and move your legs freely. If you're doing American-born skirt style dancing you do...and that isn't of "Gypsy" origin.

Sorry, I get pissy about the lower-case term gypsy flung about...double so when it sounds like the Disney peasant fantasy sort of boho look.

A peasant style top, and tiered skirt (that isn't real full in the ruffles), done in fabrics all ONE color base, but different pattern designs, with a vest over it.

Tall boots. (If you're not dancing)

Check out patterns from the 1970's on eBay, for ideas.

:-)

if you don't want to go to bag lady status remember that less is more.

and always take off the last thing you put on (ie: maybe you don't need that belt or extra necklace)

NEVER MIND will ask on gp

Originally Posted by jesennia

breathe in breathe out this isn't for a dance..it's completely unrelated to dance or 'gypsies' or Romani

completely different project, not even something that is for sale, it's a creative exercise

anyways was using gypsy as a keyword something you'd see on Stevie Nicks which those of us fans of Fleetwood Mac would arguably say that she IS a gypsy. so is my aunt. think velvet shawls, long fringe, cloaks, capes, bolero sleeves that kind of thing

I understand that.

But you might want to mention to the people making the keywords that "carefree" or "bohemian dream" or "dreamer" might be a better term in the future. The idea of 'gypsy' as a keyword is right up there with riffing on, say, 'negro attitude' or 'the natives' or 'nobel savage'

Seriously, using gypsy that way propogates a stereotype AND by making it an image, also re-enforces the idea that the "Gypsies" aren't a real people with a real knowable history, language, and race. Some newspapers still won't capitalize the word saying that it isn't a proper noun because gypsy is an adopted lifestyle/concept and not an often used but incorrect name of a real people.

sigh i'm sorry for offending anyone..my original post was about what kinds of ideas people have about street wear or NON DANCE wear. i did not mean an ounce of disrespect towards any people PLEASE can we just see the post for what it was?



thanks to those who posted the links and suggestions it's really all i was after..not after offending anyone..anyone who knows me personally knows that would not be my intention

That is specifically why I didn't capitalise and I used the word along with "fantasy" in my response to Jes - I knew what she meant and I did think about the whole "do not use this term lightly" thing but decided against it in this instance because I thought it was a known issue.

I won't use it myself in ordinary conversation as a rule, though sometimes it does end up being the most useful term to describe a certain look/fantasy style. I know people who would hear "bohemian" and think "proto-beatnik", and others who would think "crystal? Waltzes on the Danube? Something to do with central Europe?" And "carefree" means tampons.

It's a problem because it *is* an undesirable racial term but it's also something people understand immediately to mean flounces, big earrings, headscarves, crystal balls and tambourines, all of which has very little to do with actual Gypsies/Roma/Sinti. Plus we keep getting belly dance troupes called Gypsy Whatever and doing Gypsy Caravan style... it's a bloody tricky area. It reminds me a bit of when Bhuzzers have talked about describing their dance as ME or Oriental or raqs sharqi or .... and then having to tell a GP member "you know, belly dance" because that's the only term they understand.

Not an answer, just an observation.

And there are also people who are Roms who embrace the word Gypsy. Just to add to the confusion. . .

And there are people in the Entertainment Industry who call themselves Gypsies because they are touring constantly. These people may live what is perceived as a bohemian life style, but are they really Bohemians? And shouldn't people from Bohemia be offended?

Okay, i am being a little tongue in cheek here. But I have friends who are Yugoslavian Gypsies - that is what they call themselves - and proud of it. they came to America through Lebanon just prior to WWII. To them it is a more true statement than Rom.

It's just something to think about.

{{{HUGS}}}

I think a fitted bodice would be important -- also color, fabric quality, and embellishment. I'm thinking YSL circa 1976 ...

mom to the rescue or is that Mom (i undercase god too but she knows i am not disrespecting)

Gothic Renaissance Medieval Celtic Wiccan Fairy and New Age Womens Clothing Jewelry Gifts &amp Accessories | Pyramid Collection

do they rule or what?

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

And there are also people who are Roms who embrace the word Gypsy. Just to add to the confusion. . .

And there are people in the Entertainment Industry who call themselves Gypsies because they are touring constantly. These people may live what is perceived as a bohemian life style, but are they really Bohemians? And shouldn't people from Bohemia be offended?

Okay, i am being a little tongue in cheek here. But I have friends who are Yugoslavian Gypsies - that is what they call themselves - and proud of it. they came to America through Lebanon just prior to WWII. To them it is a more true statement than Rom.

It's just something to think about.

{{{HUGS}}}

do Wiccans prefer Wiccan or wiccan? what about Pagan?

OOOoooh, the reversible capes on there look pretty sweet!

Originally Posted by jesennia

do Wiccans prefer Wiccan or wiccan? what about Pagan?

I don't know. I'm a Witch. And when people have problems with that, I tell them to get over it!

{{{HUGS}}}

Jes, I would say that a little bit o' cleavage might help the look along with a skirt that's a little more fitted through the hips (a lacey kind of trumpet skirt in black or deep red), maybe?

Originally Posted by ozma

I understand that.

But you might want to mention to the people making the keywords that "carefree" or "bohemian dream" or "dreamer" might be a better term in the future. The idea of 'gypsy' as a keyword is right up there with riffing on, say, 'negro attitude' or 'the natives' or 'nobel savage'

I was taken to task for using the term "natives" to refer to people presumably born in a country we were visiting. I didn't mean anything negative by it, but some of my traveling companions were offended by my remark. I thought the term was descriptive, not offensive.

So who's right? And when (if ever) is it safe to use the term "native"?

I guess maybe you could use the word "locals" to mean the same thing? I can understand not liking "natives" but I think you have to take things in context.

Originally Posted by mish_mish

I guess maybe you could use the word "locals" to mean the same thing? I can understand not liking "natives" but I think you have to take things in context.

I'm very careful how i use the word locals in Hawaii..to me it is a term of respect for those who were here first and a respect for their ways..but i don't EVER want to come off sounding like an imbecile haole ..but then again I've never experienced any kind of haole prejudice, when I meet Hawaiians for the first time I always crack a light joke about being a haole and they grin really big. I am not offended if someone calls me a haole but in some cases being called one could be deragatory (not to me though).

I don't know what the correct term is these days but in jr high I hung out with a group of Hispanic? Mexican? girls..they used to call me the equivalent of skinny white girl. Didnt bother me in the least. My husband always refers to himself as the token asian in the group.

Most of the time it's hard to know what IS the correct word to use..so many different words, so many different people with different perspectives, etc. someone along the way may be offended.

anyways isn't that site great? loooove the busty tops if they will fit

Originally Posted by da Sage

I was taken to task for using the term "natives" to refer to people presumably born in a country we were visiting. I didn't mean anything negative by it, but some of my traveling companions were offended by my remark. I thought the term was descriptive, not offensive.

So who's right? And when (if ever) is it safe to use the term "native"?

It tends to be safer if used in conjuntion with another word to determine what area the people are "native" to..."natives" without clarification can have a connotation similar to "nobel savages" of yore.

I didn't mean to dish on Jesennia. I don't think her use of the world reflects poorly on her personally. It's common, we all knew what she was talking about.

I think the use of the word by Romani is fine if some wish to use it identify themselves, who am I to tell them what to call themselves? I understand how it it the easy go-to when talking about Romani because it is more globally understood...I just thought it'd be worth mentioning that the use of the term gypsy is still problematic when it refers to a romantic image/look/style and is worth looking into other terms to conjure the image you want. The use of gypsy to refer to a certain look, style, quick character identity is easy, but we should be thinking twice about even it if the meaning is positive.

And here's my own nasty personal confession:

I use a lot of terms carelessly and I shouldn't. I am working hard right now to not refer to infuriatingly stupid retrograde actions and such as "retarded" and it isn't easy....because I have a nasty habit of it, I realize I don't even think about it...but know I should know better...heck I beg for the chance to bring my activity based English classes into the "special needs" sections of schools I teach at...but I still get lazy with language sometimes because it easily expresses "'ffed up" when I can't use the F-word.

And, heck, that one isn't a grey area for most of us.

Originally Posted by jesennia

I'm very careful how i use the word locals in Hawaii..to me it is a term of respect for those who were here first and a respect for their ways..but i don't EVER want to come off sounding like an imbecile haole ..but then again I've never experienced any kind of haole prejudice, when I meet Hawaiians for the first time I always crack a light joke about being a haole and they grin really big. I am not offended if someone calls me a haole but in some cases being called one could be deragatory (not to me though).

I don't know what the correct term is these days but in jr high I hung out with a group of Hispanic? Mexican? girls..they used to call me the equivalent of skinny white girl. Didnt bother me in the least. My husband always refers to himself as the token asian in the group.

Most of the time it's hard to know what IS the correct word to use..so many different words, so many different people with different perspectives, etc. someone along the way may be offended.

I second that about the locals in Hawaii. My partner, Keala has experienced a different reception. As a haole, blonde girl growing up as a minority and going through the public school system she had a rough time. When we are in certain circles I get more automatic respect and acceptance because of my swarthy looks even though Keala was born and raised here. I just love to watch her bust out some Pidgeon. Its like witnessing a pool shark clear the table. Don't judge a book I say.

PS My ancestry is part Bohemian Roma on my father's side. Full on, migrant horse traders and entertainers. They migrated to France before WWII and assimilated nicely before moving to the US. They called themselves "Gyspies" with pride. It was never a bad word in my home. The only 3 surviving pics of my ancesters on that side true to life Disney fantasy pics. Big curly dark hair, huge earrings, big skirts, knee high boots and defiant poses. My father even inherited the family violin, seriously, could it get more cliche'? I understand the sensitivity needed in regards to this term but I speak for my family when I say feel free to call us Gypsies in every definition of the word. I am glad we can have this conversation here though, it is good to make sure that people get the concept that this is a loaded word...back to playing dress up!

Originally Posted by jesennia

do Wiccans prefer Wiccan or wiccan? what about Pagan?

Wiccan with a capital W. Just like you'd capitalize Catholic or Hindu. Pagan is more of an umbrella term for a variety of different faiths as opposed to a specific religion, so I don't think it matters if it's capitalized.

--Laura

It is really hard to know the acceptable term to use--and things change over time--I always try to look at the intention of the speaker--and also it's not my job to be the keeper of other people's cultural identities. I am fine with confronting bad behavior--intentional insults about culture, abilities, sexual orientation, etc.--but I am not comfortable schooling people with good intentions. In most cases, I think doing so comes off a bit elitist--as if I am somehow the arbiter of cultural appropriateness, when I really don't know what is right either sometimes, I only know what NOT to do/say.

Originally Posted by mish_mish

It is really hard to know the acceptable term to use--and things change over time--I always try to look at the intention of the speaker--and also it's not my job to be the keeper of other people's cultural identities. I am fine with confronting bad behavior--intentional insults about culture, abilities, sexual orientation, etc.--but I am not comfortable schooling people with good intentions. In most cases, I think doing so comes off a bit elitist--as if I am somehow the arbiter of cultural appropriateness, when I really don't know what is right either sometimes, I only know what NOT to do/say.

Jesenia and I had some good back and forths via PMs about it...not scolding, just talking about the grays.

I think for me I feel the need to be very careful about how I use the terms...because it is the area of BD I specialize in, Turkish Romani, and read the most about...so I get very invested in it and it spills over. I watch myself, and think about cultural appropriation, far more fiercely than I do "on behalf of others" and it has taken odd roads sometimes and I've taken small ammounts of fire for much less.

Bug Girl's Tokyo Story - Photoshop

I don't think I would take the time to explain it to most people, but here is one place I don't expect to find the word used in a "lower case" way often because it does have connections to a form a minority of us study.