Thread: Steering students away from UBDCs -- how?

My first costuming purchases were from LRose, and it was (and still is) great and useful stuff. One thing that really helped was that my instructor wore LRose tops and skirts often and always had plenty of LRose catalogs on hand to make purchasing easy. We didn't have to fumble around online trying to guess what she thought would be appropriate.

I think making a cost argument/support argument is the best way. I attended class with a girl who insisted on wearing that kind of stuff, and the beads went from her top to my foot. Even if she's small enough that her boobs look good, I'm going guess there's at least one other dancer in your group that will not look good in that top. Since you're doing group performances, it's important to have some cohesive look.

I'd also argue that top (I think it's cute for clubbing, btw) isn't as versatile. Stuff like from L.Rose can be mixed and matched so you can look like you're wearing a different outfit. With a good gold or silver bra and belt set, your outfit will look completely different depending on the skirt and jacket.

Also, you may be able to strike a deal with L.Rose design. I think they give discounts for group orders.

Originally Posted by indigostars

I think making a cost argument/support argument is the best way. I attended class with a girl who insisted on wearing that kind of stuff, and the beads went from her top to my foot.

thats a really good point. its not just to look professional and/or not embarrass herself or the troupe.

flimsy costumes with glass beads can become a safety issue for other troupe members and the acts that follow you on stage. i followed a lady in a lingerie bra with fashion fringe one night. her fashion quality fringe busted beads all over the stage and i slipped on a big round one and almost went backwards over a monitor

$30 is not a bargain if it falls apart and hurts someone's foot or causes accidents every time you dance..p::

and not to mention it would take so much $ in building in an appropriate bra and strap system, beading the straps to match, making a skirt to go under, etc, she might as well get something that is more appropriate and durable right out of the gate.

I think a lot of dancers make these mistakes early on. I never really liked the butterfly tops but I looked at something very similar (in price and quality) because I'd just bought a house and couldn't shell out $300 to $500 for a solo costume. I wasn't in a troupe but needed something for student nights. Looking back I spent so much money on crap I never wore: ill-fitting, bad fabrics, cheaply made garbage that could have bought me that $300 Johara or used costume from the Swap Meet.

I only wish I had known people who were more knowledgeable about purchasing costumes. My teacher at the time was big into making them, which some can do but I'm still working up to it years later.

If cost is an issue, you can always point out that while $169 seems like a lot to spend on an American icon (or something similar), the $50 butterfly top is going to cost both time and money to make it wearable. And it's going to need to be replaced after one to two wearings. After three or four months of performances, she'll have spent more than $200 on costumes and still probably not have anything that will last.

I finally rounded up all that crap I'd spent money on in the first few years of dancing and sold it at a hafla. I made about $145 on stuff that had cost me almost $300.

I have seen 1 dancer look good in a butterfly top and it was a particularly well made and nice one and she has a particularly nice firm figure needing little supportive help ( and who would actually look nice in a plastic refuse bag)
On the whole butterfly tops should all flutter off to a glittery grave and I can avoid having to see hafla boobage coming at me from all directions.

If I were currently teaching, and had students at the performance-ready level, I would hold a fun "costume clinic" in lieu of class (or for a good chunk of class time) one night leading up to a showcase or hafla. This would be an awesome way to demonstrate the differences between Egyptian, Turkish, vintage-style and tribal costuming, to give tips on flattering your figure, and to help students make economical, durable choices for their first performance attire. (You could even touch on makeup, if you're comfortable with the topic).

Maybe if you really want to drive the point home, you can even give a humorous PowerPoint presentation of classic "UBDC's" and ask your class to discuss why the costume could pose a potential disaster. Of course, good taste totally is a subjective matter, but certain things should be universally avoided, like flaccid flesh-colored crassels, bulls-eyes over the nipples, and dinner plate shaped bras with mile-long straps. If you use humor, they'll be more likely to listen and less likely to object.

In general, I think a class on costuming is a tactful, informative and fun way to bring up the delicate subject of image - and could be a great way to spare some awkward or embarassing conversations later. Has anyone tried this out with any success?

i agree

Originally Posted by Lauren_

My opinion, YMMV, these things are such a personal call.

I think you can set standards, but I don't think you can dictate taste. You can say 'No transparent skirts or slits above midthigh, no lingerie bras. Tops must offer adequate coverage AND support OR proper undergarments must be worn.' You can justify the above by telling students that in no way are you going to allow anyone in a performance YOU arrange to contribute to the public's 'hoochie mama' interpretation of the dance.

But I don't think you can say 'And I have to find your costume attractive.'

So, if said student doesn't require ANY support up top, and if she wears a skirt under that... hip thing... I wouldn't personally object. If she brought the outfit into class and *asked* my opinion, I'd say 'The lower priced stuff, like these Indian outfits, don't tend to be very durable or flattering and even though they're cheap, I don't consider them a good buy.'

If said dancer does require some support, I'd point out that rule and ask her what her plan is for adding support to this costume, or adding a back and shoulder straps to hide a bra.

As far as steering students toward nice ideas, they need and want help with their costuming and welcome it. I have a printout of some nice costuming ideas for students on the bulletin board in class, lots of links for them on my website, and I have (temporarily down for maintentance, though) an article on my website with links to pictures and things.

Hmmmmm... I may add some 'don'ts' to my student costuming page to steer future students away from things that are my bugaboos!

i have a student who has one of this butterfly tops, and though i'd never wear one myself (tried one on in a shop once, as summer wear, and "my girls" were unhappy in it, so didnt buy it)

but anyway, she looks good in it, and it has some kind of bra built in that has enough support for someone with an A or even B cup...

so for classes, student performances, i'd happily let her wear it.

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

Not quiet true. In my thinner days, I have worn a butterfly top and long hip scarf as a costume. Not one of the butterfly tops being sold here, but the Selma Hyack tops which lace down the back and actually do have some support built in. Believe it or not, it looked good.

There is a dancer here in LA who has been known to wear some of the Indian stuff well. She does layer it over a long sleeved body stocking and wears good foundation beneath.

For students, I am not completely opposed to some of the Indian sets, as long as the student knows how to properly adjust it and what to wear with it so that it looks presentable. And they know that this is in no way, shape or form a professional costume.

But, this also gives them the opportunity to start building a wardrobe. A decent skirt, gauntlets and veil added to, well not necessarily a butterfly set, will be a good start for later expansion.

{{{HUGS}}}

Anala- your troupe looks so gorgeous! everyone is flattered by their costume and colors-

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

Not quiet true. In my thinner days, I have worn a butterfly top and long hip scarf as a costume. Not one of the butterfly tops being sold here, but the Selma Hyack tops which lace down the back and actually do have some support built in. Believe it or not, it looked good.

There is a dancer here in LA who has been known to wear some of the Indian stuff well. She does layer it over a long sleeved body stocking and wears good foundation beneath.

For students, I am not completely opposed to some of the Indian sets, as long as the student knows how to properly adjust it and what to wear with it so that it looks presentable. And they know that this is in no way, shape or form a professional costume.

But, this also gives them the opportunity to start building a wardrobe. A decent skirt, gauntlets and veil added to, well not necessarily a butterfly set, will be a good start for later expansion.

{{{HUGS}}}

Not trying to be mean in my original post. As a baby beginner, I made the mistake of buying one...now I have a pretty nice figure and small girls, and so it wasn't that it didn't look okay in terms of not making me look like a cow, or in making my FIGURE look bad....but it certainly would not have cut it dancing.

My teacher said "uh...NO." Several years later I saw a group of girls dancing in them, and it just wasn't very nice looking. But, they had larger chests and were not supported.

I, like many, wasted enough money on crap to buy a Bella if I'd just been a little more patient.

I agree that the butterfly costume is a bad choice for most. At workshops, performances and in class I hate to be constantly shoeing costume droppings from under my feet. .w.: OUCH!
My almost-sister-in-law just returned from India with one of those costumes for me as a Christmas gift. I was gracious, though it has lived in a serving dish on a shelf in my dining room ever since!
I put the whole thing on over my pj's and did an obligatory shimmy. She knew right away that there was no way those butterflies were going to hold anything in!
I think it is easy for beginners to get caught up in all of the sparklies. It is also just as easy to figure out the difference between a well made costume and something that might fall appart on stage.
I feel that you can totally dictate that costumes must be supportive, well fitting and never too sheer.

One thing I used to do was to have a "costuming day" for one of the classes in my 8-week session. I would bring costume pieces from my collection to show the students, and I would talk about them. Some of these would be pieces I made myself, and others would be affordable items from reputable vendors. I would also usually bring along a couple of my "mistakes" and talk about why those items proved to be a bad idea.

Sometimes when you show a student a cheaply-made item next to a still-affordable-but-nicer-and-a-little-higher-priced item, they can see the difference and understand why the cheaply made item is a bad idea.

When I lived in California, we would sometimes have "sewing parties" where we would all gather at someone's house. Those who had portable sewing machines, shears, pincushions, etc. would bring them. Those who knew how to sew would provide guidance to the others in drafting pattern pieces, cutting them out, etc. These included potluck munchies, fun music, and lots of female bonding.

So the butterfly is almost a rite of passage!
I actually think this is a fairly harmless mistake to make, they are not that bad, okay, a bit cheaply made, and unsupportive, but they look kind of cute on a slim young thing who's just starting out.
Most people who decide to take dancing more seriously will soon realise these are not appropriate for professional performance.

I think it is worth offering guidance, but if somebody wants and likes a butterfly top it is mean to make them feel bad about wearing one in class or to a hafla.
If you are arranging suitable costumes for a group performance that is a different matter.

I like these for student or troupe costumes, believe it or not (don't shoot me). I actually just bought one for myself to wear at gigs where I need a more conservative look (ie no cleavage, but a little belly). They are pricey if you buy them full price, but right now they are 60% off!

Belly Dance Costumes King Of The Nile


Belly Dance Costumes King Of The Nile

Andalee, is their stuff good quality?
what about the stuff they say has a "minor imperfection"?

Originally Posted by Kathiya

Andalee, is their stuff good quality?
what about the stuff they say has a "minor imperfection"?

I would say medium quality...not great, not crap.

I bought a full costume from them that I really liked. It was good, but the bra was too small...and the way they do their skirts can give you a muffin top.

This thing I bought the other day, is less quality (but their prices are going up!) but the bead work and construction is quite sturdy. The only "minor imperfection" was that the rouching in the center of the top is obviously crooked, so I am going to redo it. I always expect to have to redo something that I buy online though!

My advice is if you pay full price you are wasting your money...but if you get it for 50-60% off then you are getting your money's worth...and they always have sales.

thanks for the review :)

Not being able to dictate taste is a really good point... but also, I think sometimes you have to realize that no matter what you say, people will wear what they want. One gal here in town was convinced that her elcheapo pseudocostume was just the thing to wear while taking tickets at a local event, and there was no convincing her otherwise. It looked just plain inappropriate, but she just HAD to wear it. (I told her to save it for a Halloween costume.)

Originally Posted by Sonja2

All it would take is seeing one on a person once. Then she'd never want one again.

Nope. Some people look good in them, increasing their allure.

I totally agree with the idea of having a class about costuming. I took my first class in the back room of a Boutique that sold beautiful - but overpriced- imported garments and jewlery. The butterfly sets were all along the walls above the dance mirrors. They were $100. but b/c I was a student I got a $25. discount! I wish someone was there to tell me it was wrong!!! I could have purchased a beautiful hip scarf for $75. My next class was with a professional and she was more than happy to share info about costumes. She even asked me to bring in some items I bought to show the class. She gave wonderful advice. She even showed me how to make my own costume re-using material from the cheap items I had purchased. I was very happy for her help.

Originally Posted by aziyade

I love L Rose too, but unless you really know what you want, their catalog is a tad hard to visualize.

This company shows pictures of several complete or almost-complete nice looking sets for under $100 on their site.

Belly Dance Costume & Dancing Supply with Moondance.

I didn't look at their site in detail, but they may offer a troupe discount. Most companies seem willing to work something out for group purchases.

Good luck!

Is it just me or is there way too much Indian style pieces in belly dance period?

I'm totally guilty of sportin' a bindi early on. I knew better, but I thought it was fun...At some point it became lame to me. lol

When I first started learning, my teacher Jaleh, taught on costuming quite a bit. We had a class or two like Shira mentioned and we also did a field trip to a fabric store to discuss the best fabrics and things to construct costumes and veils. This was very helpful.

In other forms of dance, it isn't uncommon to see a recital costume fee of $100 to $200 dollars.