Thread: Steering students away from UBDCs -- how?

I have a student who seems enamored with those godawful Indian butterfly costumes -- you know the one:

Blossom Gifts

She is drawn to "cheap" costumes because of the price. I know this.

I am trying to be as diplomatic as possible, but I absolutely refuse to let any of my students perform in public in stuff like this.

What's the best way to approach this? It's getting close to the time where we're going to start performing group numbers at haflas (and we're not too far from dancing for the GP.) Up till now we've worn black pants and hip scarves (which I also can't stand, but have to do out of necessity) and my soloists have worn Sharifwear outfits.

I'd like to also show them photos of GOOD student costuming, so they don't feel like I'm asking them to drop $900 on an Eman Zaki. Can you help me out here? How do I get them hooked on stylish and tasteful stuff? :)

Thanks!
Amanda

I highly recommend L. Rose's items. They are gorgeous, durable, washable and affordable. And, I might add, custom made to your measurements.

We use L Rose for troupe..250 each when it is all said and done. Photo of us in my gallery. It had to suite a range of body types and dance styles so we went for a Vintage American Oriental (AmCab) look.


Looks like this

Ooh, I second the L.Rose recommendation! I love them even for my own costuming, and they've got a special form now for troupe orders which makes it really easy to keep everybody's order/measurements separate. Each person gets their own bag of goodies with their name on it so you don't have to sort out which arm cuffs go to which person. Very well made stuff. ..g.:

The Blossom Gifts butterfly set is certainly cheap! The "skirt" part might be pretty over a black chiffon skirt or something. The top is probably hopeless. You just have to be frank with her and tell her that you get what you pay for. The beading is probably not sturdy enough to stand up to dancing, for one thing. The top is not supportive enough to wear while dancing <shudder> if she is larger than an A cup. And not very flattering even if she is an A cup.

I second L Rose.

There have been threads on here about student/troupe costuming, try a search to find photos of good solutions.

In any studio I have performed with, the teacher would specify.

For example, this is an egyptian set so your costume must be egyptian style

Same goes for Turkish or any other style.

There are cheap bra and belt sets on ebay (Egyptian and Turkish style) for under $75. Some as low as $50.

Also - show examples of what and what not to buy...

I love L.Rose and Sharifwear for affordable costuming, also the Dahlal newsletter has a "Dancer Design" feature where they make a costume from accessory items.

~~Kimahri

I think the biggest argument you can make regarding this type of costume is that they fall apart quickly. and therefore need to be replaced often. They also do't fit well, and will in the end be unflattering.

She can keep her eyes open on E-bay and other places for good second hand costumes or you can have a costume building class / workshop!

{{{HUGS}}}

Oh God, the butterfly costume. Where do we begin......

I might suggest to her that investing in a couple of quality pieces such as L Rose will save her money in the long run. A nice trumpet or circle skirt from them will go with a simple hip scarf and coin bra now or a more expensive bedlah if she continues on to become a professional down the road. The butterfly top can never provide enough support for anyone over an A cup.

By the way, has anyone else noticed the new butterfly tops being advertised here on Bhuz? Basically they've taken the already hideous top and added two pasties complete with gold tassels right over the nipple area. Nice! Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse. I wish I could find the ad, but I did see it here yesterday.

I found it:

My opinion, YMMV, these things are such a personal call.

I think you can set standards, but I don't think you can dictate taste. You can say 'No transparent skirts or slits above midthigh, no lingerie bras. Tops must offer adequate coverage AND support OR proper undergarments must be worn.' You can justify the above by telling students that in no way are you going to allow anyone in a performance YOU arrange to contribute to the public's 'hoochie mama' interpretation of the dance.

But I don't think you can say 'And I have to find your costume attractive.'

So, if said student doesn't require ANY support up top, and if she wears a skirt under that... hip thing... I wouldn't personally object. If she brought the outfit into class and *asked* my opinion, I'd say 'The lower priced stuff, like these Indian outfits, don't tend to be very durable or flattering and even though they're cheap, I don't consider them a good buy.'

If said dancer does require some support, I'd point out that rule and ask her what her plan is for adding support to this costume, or adding a back and shoulder straps to hide a bra.

As far as steering students toward nice ideas, they need and want help with their costuming and welcome it. I have a printout of some nice costuming ideas for students on the bulletin board in class, lots of links for them on my website, and I have (temporarily down for maintentance, though) an article on my website with links to pictures and things.

Hmmmmm... I may add some 'don'ts' to my student costuming page to steer future students away from things that are my bugaboos!

p.s. Another option, of course, is to set up an inexpensive costume and insist that everyone who performs has to have that costume. Tie tops and circle skirts with hip scarves is a REALLY cheap option, students could wear a tummy cover or body suit with it if they wanted. L Rose is certainly an option (that's what I've done with my performing group).

A touch of peer pressure can also work - tell her straight out that butterfly tops are pretty much considered a joke amongst performing dancers, and that you don't want her to be embarrassed. A friend of mine who had just started performing was dying to buy this hideous Cairo airport special (complete with long sparse fringe and dinner plate shaped cups) online, but when I told her how much those sets are pretty much mocked behind the scenes, she changed her mind quick.

Friends don't let friends wear UBDCs.

I let a fellow dancer borrow my costume instead of wearing a really horrific Cairo airport special which was way too small as well as about to fall apart with beads and fringe missing and some beads hanging on pieces of unattached string. It really opened her eyes to see herself in a real costume and I hope she will consider outfit choices next time she performs because I no longer dance with that group and won't lend my costume out unless I'm there.
I think it helps to see how much more flattering a better constructed cossie is to a butterfly top or airport special.

L.Rose does have very nice stuff. And their prices aren't bad.
Just my two cents worth but what if you took some different costume pieces into class and showed her the difference between el cheapo and quality made? Just a thought.
,r:;

L rose is great and some sharifwear can be wornto clubs, etc.. I like jazz pants with hip scarves or first level classes, personally, but then it wouldn't be a public performance.

Originally Posted by laura 2

A touch of peer pressure can also work - tell her straight out that butterfly tops are pretty much considered a joke amongst performing dancers, and that you don't want her to be embarrassed....

Friends don't let friends wear UBDCs.

*wince* ouch. Tough love hurts. This is an honest and straightforward approach, and maybe kinder in the long run IF she wants to be a pro.

I think as a student, I'd resent being given that information by my teacher AFTER I bought the thing, though. Hmmm... another reason to add some don'ts to my student costuming info.

You can also take the reins and have them pay you and then order the appropriate sets yourself. Many places offer teacher/troupe discounts. So a 200 workhorse set comes out to 80 per person. You can select quality sets that last an eon until they're ready for Eman.

Originally Posted by laura 2

A touch of peer pressure can also work - tell her straight out that butterfly tops are pretty much considered a joke amongst performing dancers, and that you don't want her to be embarrassed. A friend of mine who had just started performing was dying to buy this hideous Cairo airport special (complete with long sparse fringe and dinner plate shaped cups) online, but when I told her how much those sets are pretty much mocked behind the scenes, she changed her mind quick.

Friends don't let friends wear UBDCs.

That might be a good approach for me, too. I also have this problem with a student and for the life of me can't understand why she likes the cheap stuff when (apparently) she can afford better.

All it would take is seeing one on a person once. Then she'd never want one again.

I too recommend L. Rose - I especially love that you can throw their stuff in the washing machine (I use the gentle cycle!). Haven't tried Sharifwear but every time I see someone wearing it I want to get it because they have some really classy stuff.

I have told my students the truth, that those outfits are not what we really wear. Student or not. I recommended L Rose to my students. Tie tops, cholis, chiffon skirts layered over each other are all cute ideas for a student to feel like they have a real costume on without having to pay hundreds of dollars. I think I made my point because two of my students then asked my opinion on certain items they were looking to buy and they were very nice, suitable student items.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

*wince* ouch. Tough love hurts. This is an honest and straightforward approach, and maybe kinder in the long run IF she wants to be a pro.

I think as a student, I'd resent being given that information by my teacher AFTER I bought the thing, though. Hmmm... another reason to add some don'ts to my student costuming info.

I'd probably soft-pedal it a bit if they'd already bought the item. But the scenario I usually run into is that I'm asked my opinion in advance. They'll email me a link, or ask me to come and look at the what they're considering at this or that vendor table.

I just can't in good conscience smile and nod at something that I know for a fact is going to get them laughed at behind their back. My students who perform really want to look good and impress other dancers, and they'd be mortified to discover they were wearing something that's considered a "no-no".

I'm sending out a group email about (especially Indian) costumes in general, what to watch for and all that, since we buy so much sight-unseen. I may have to actually break down and buy one of those stupid butterfly tops so I can show them in person how poorly made it is.

I think she's drawn to this look because that's the kind of thing she wears every day -- you know the Indian dress and split pant thing, the glittery yoga uniform or whatever. I like it well enough as fashion when it's done right, but I certainly don't want other dancers to look at my students and think "Why on EARTH didn't her teacher warn her off that!!!"

Anala -- LOVE the pic! This is probably the direction I need to go. I think I can get them all to buy ONE coin bra, and we can make or have made the rest. I love L Rose too, but unless you really know what you want, their catalog is a tad hard to visualize.

thanks!!

Tell her you don't object to the outfit itself but the appropriateness of it (sometimes you have to lie ). While this would be fun for many other situations, it's not a proper belly dance costume. You realize that she doesn't have a ton of money to spend right now, but she needs to fit into the cohesive look you want to project. You allow personal expression in costuming but it has to fit in the parameters. It's important to you to project the correct image whether the public realizes it or not. She can certainly wear it to attend the hafla but not as a costume.

If this fails smack some sense into her. .p::

Originally Posted by laura 2

I'd probably soft-pedal it a bit if they'd already bought the item. But the scenario I usually run into is that I'm asked my opinion in advance. They'll email me a link, or ask me to come and look at the what they're considering at this or that vendor table.

aaaaaaah! That's easy then.

The more I'm reading, the more I'm thinking that it's important to get information to people BEFORE they shop, even if it's just to say 'there's a lot of trash being sold as 'belly dance costumes' especially online. I don't want to see anyone waste their money on crappy merchandise or on something that the higher level students would laugh at you for wearing. Please feel free to ask my opinion if you see something you're thinking of buying to wear for a public show, I'm here to help you."

Dealing with things a student has already bought is harder. I'd go the 'poop sandwich' route.
Bread 'Wow, you sure got a great deal'
Poop 'This fabric is awfully thin, there's not a lot of support, and you're probably not going to want this much leg showing (or whatever)
Bread 'It's sparkly and you chose a great color. Would you like to talk about how to adapt this to work onstage for a recital? Or is this something you just bought for fun?'

Originally Posted by Sonja2

All it would take is seeing one on a person once. Then she'd never want one again.

Not quiet true. In my thinner days, I have worn a butterfly top and long hip scarf as a costume. Not one of the butterfly tops being sold here, but the Selma Hyack tops which lace down the back and actually do have some support built in. Believe it or not, it looked good.

There is a dancer here in LA who has been known to wear some of the Indian stuff well. She does layer it over a long sleeved body stocking and wears good foundation beneath.

For students, I am not completely opposed to some of the Indian sets, as long as the student knows how to properly adjust it and what to wear with it so that it looks presentable. And they know that this is in no way, shape or form a professional costume.

But, this also gives them the opportunity to start building a wardrobe. A decent skirt, gauntlets and veil added to, well not necessarily a butterfly set, will be a good start for later expansion.

{{{HUGS}}}

Originally Posted by Andrea2

While this would be fun for many other situations, it's not a proper belly dance costume.

This is part of what I'd use in the soft-pedal approach, so she doesn't feel like she's flushed good money down the toilet. "You know, that would be awesome for going out to a club, or open dancing at a hafla. But it's really not something many dancers, including myself, really enjoy seeing a performer wear. There are some nice options available for not that much more than you paid for this, and it'll be more durable so you'll get way more use out of it."

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I don't want to see anyone waste their money on crappy merchandise or on something that the higher level students would laugh at you for wearing.

I think this is key. Make sure they know you're doing this for them, to save them from embarrassment. Not because you personally don't like that style and die a little inside every time you see someone wearing one. People tend to be a bit more receptive if you word your comments as if you personally have no stake in the matter, and you're just looking out for them.

oh god, there's a woman in my class who doesn't know enough bd to be performing on her own for $$ (sorry to say but true) and performs for MONEY in THOSE outfits...she was showing us some pics of her in her bedroom with her different "costumes" and said how she paid $190 for a particular "outfit"..the stuff looked like she was wearing a hipscarf as a top and just another hipscarf on the bottom ..c::

Like Lauren, I can't dictate taste. I also have one student who refuses to add any more decoration to her still very lingerie-like bra because she wants to be able to wash it. However, she is only dancing in school events.

Young slim girls like those butterfly tops and they *can* look pretty. Fortunately, to be in our level 3 class you HAVE to have a bedleh. Now, if someone had a very ordinary satin-and-lampshade-fringe bedleh and had been wearing it for years and years without ever updating, and they were coming into my L3 class, I would tell them that they "might want" to update their costume because it would not look as "professional" as the others. But if the new student was fairly new I would, in the first instance, leave them to "assimilate". In general I've found that people will look at what others are wearing and making and be inspired.

Other than that you have to go on a case by case basis. If someone comes in with what you people would call a Turkish Airport Special all excited, I'm not going to tell her it sucks and she should buy something else. I will, however, suggest adjustments that she *may* make, like taking the wall o fringe off or shortening the straps, or changing out the skirt.

These days when I take a costuming workshop I like talking about the value of a "neutral" bedleh in a metallic or similar, that the student can use as a base to wear with various other colours. People are skint at the moment and I know that for me, my rather manky silver set is the most useful costume I have because it is so versatile.