Thread: Bindis?

I'm a bit confused!

Yesterday I was talking to a friend of mine (she's Moroccan and used to work as a dancer), and she asked me why I didn't wear a bindi.

I've always thought of bindis as a Indian thing and only wear them for more fusionlike or fantasy style dancing, but I mostly perform Egyptian style.

Anyway, according to her lots of dancers in Arabic countries wear bindis.
None of the dancers I've seen myself (mostly Egyptians) have worn them though...

Did I miss something? .w.:

I'm not sure if Bindis are considered to be strictly Indian anymore. I think of them more as just another way to decorate my face.

Originally Posted by yarahbellydance

Anyway, according to her lots of dancers in Arabic countries wear bindis.
None of the dancers I've seen myself (mostly Egyptians) have worn them though...

Did I miss something? .w.:

Which Arabic countries were she referencing would be my first question.

I've always thought bindis were also worn for religious reasons and have seen fusion dancers wear them. I have never seen an Arabic/Egyptian style dancer wear a bindi in Golden Age videos of dancers or currently on video, youtube or actual performances. I could be wrong b/c I've been out of the dance community but....As an Arabic/Egyptian/Folk style dancer, I wouldn't wear it b/c it doesn't seem to fit with the style I'm studying.

My two cents :)

Nope, I've never seen an Arab dancer wear a bindi (like you, I've mostly seen Egyptian, but also some Moroccan, some Algerian).

Amel Tafsout wears face tattoos (I'm not sure that they are real), but not bindis.

Originally Posted by yarahbellydance

I'm a bit confused!

Yesterday I was talking to a friend of mine (she's Moroccan and used to work as a dancer), and she asked me why I didn't wear a bindi.

I've always thought of bindis as a Hindu thing and only wear them for more fusionlike or fantasy style dancing, but I mostly perform Egyptian style.

Anyway, according to her lots of dancers in Arabic countries wear bindis.
None of the dancers I've seen myself (mostly Egyptians) have worn them though...

Did I miss something? .w.:

That is really peculiar...I have never seen an Arab dancer wear a bindi. Nor would any of the Arab people I know think that it's "normal." Weird!

we do not wear them.belly dance is not hindu or punjab. a member of a local group steats that the punjab use the bindi instead of a caste mark.
this is right up there with henna. we do not wear it either.it is a wedding thing, first done on those who could not afford wedding jewelery, so it was henned on.

Hmmm. That is rather odd. If she's a dancer perhaps in her circle where she danced in Morocco the dancers wore bhindi's and maybe she assumed the trend caught on in other Arab countries? I don't know but that's strange to say the least. I've only seen American bellydancers wear bhindis.

Bindis are mostly an Indian thing. There are also some other Asian countries where people paint dots on their forehead for religious reasons.
A bindi can also be purely ornamental.
Some years ago I wrote an article on the topc:
From ritual to fashion: Bindis

I have seen Middle Eastern / Maghrebi dancers wearing bindis, but that was here in Switzerland and they might have picked it up from Swiss dancers.
It is not a tradition of the region.

Don't let this dancer confuse you. I have heard so many people tell me "Why don't you wear a belly chain, ALL Arab dancers do!" - "Why don't you dance on tables, ALL Turkish dancers do!" - "Why don't you do XYZ....."
Even Arabs have a limited horizon of what THEY personally think a dancer should / must / should not do, you can never take one single person's ideas as the ultimate truth.

MEISSOUN

I was told that only the red dot has spiritual / caste significance, that other bindis are just decoration in the same category as earrings. I don't know about Arabic dancers, but plenty of well-known American cabaret dancers wear them.

If I were doing a strictly classical Egyptian choreography I probably wouldn't wear one. But if my set included pop music, or Turkish or a variety of things I would feel free to add a bindi to my look.

Traditionaly, the red "tilak" was made by mixing turmeric power with green lemon juice and was worn by married women, or yogis wear it to transform sexual energy into spiritual energy, women, men and/or infant going to the temple, etc.

But today, the esthetic version of tilak is without all religious consideration: it's just a face jewel! In the past few decades, not only married women have taken up this beautiful accessory. Girls of all ages enjoy wearing a variety of styles and colors. Today, these little gems are often matched with the color clothing a person is wearing.

And yes, today it is use also by middle eastern ladies: in Morocco the "negafa" (wedding dresser) uses indian style bindins to decorate moroccan brides all over the eyebrow's line. Also, if some of you have seen the Tunisian movie "Satin Rouge", you've probably notice that the dancer, Folla, wears a blue bindi to match her costume.

Our troupe director is Moroccan and have no prob with forehead bindis or any order kind of little stone glued in the corner of the eye, it's makeup as glitter eyeliner, etc. Just keep it simple, don't overdue it, same as costuming.
So if you feel like wearing or not wearing those, that's OK.






Qamar

Bindis were originally a symbol of marriage in ancient India. Actually, it's not a symbol of marriage unless there is Sindhoor involved as well. The "cast significance" some people attribute to the color is something that was added later - the original bindi did not have a color denomination to disclose your social status and marital status.

*sindhoor - red powder put in the crease of the hairline and through the front 1 - 2 inches of a woman's hair in the "part" of her hair.. here illustrated by the ever divine Ashwariya Rai Bacchan, mrs of Abhishek Bacchan, son of Amitabh Bacchan - one of the most legendary Bollywood actors in history.



Just for the record here are the typical more or less traditional "ways to recognize a bride":
Hinduism - Mehndi, Choora (red bangles), Sindhoor, Manglasutra (specific type of necklace)

choora


Sikhism - not to be confused with Punjabi! plain clothing, 5 ks (kaccha - boxer shorts, kara - bangle, kirpan - knife, kes - hair, kanga - comb). Here illustrated in the Nihang fashion


and mainstream Sikh fashion:


Punjabi - red/pink dress, kalire (dangly gold stuff on the picture - I dont know how to explain it briefly), choora (red bracelets), a ton of gold, fancy make up, fancy hair-do, fancy trendy clothing... HOWEVER, Punjab consists of groups that are vastly different from each other - Sikhs, Hindus, Christians, Muslims....so a Punjabi bride may very different from these "recognition factors" illustrating images here
Sikh Punjabi

Sikh Punjabi

Hindu Punjabi

Hindu Punjabi

Christian Punjabi

Pakistani Punjabi

(more pakistani bride shots here


continues

Originally Posted by zamora

we do not wear them.belly dance is not hindu or punjab. a member of a local group steats that the punjab use the bindi instead of a caste mark.
this is right up there with henna. we do not wear it either.it is a wedding thing, first done on those who could not afford wedding jewelery, so it was henned on.

ditto. i was taught this was more sacred and private and shouldn't be connected w/the dance whatsoever

.....

i personally wouldn't wear one nor are we allowed to wear one at our studio (our big shows i mean) except for bollywood performances but i really like the ones around the eyes like in the one pictured. but knowing my clumsy self, i would probably mess up my whole makeup by trying add one stone, get it in my eye in the middle of the performance..ah it would be a mess lol it's just one thing thats less of a hassle too.

continued..

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A bindi without Sindhoor involved is called a Tillak as Qamar mentions (I'm impressed btw). Tillak was and is still used with a religious significance.

According to Muslim tradition - anything "modifying" Allah's creation is sin - tattoos, piercings. Tillak is a religious symbol of Hinduism - so, Islam does not allow this symbol.

According to Arab tradition - nomad/bedouin tradition - tattoos were used to signify tribal ancestary. Henna is used for weddings and otherwise to "enhance" looks and "protect" against evil. According to Islam - this is superstition and is therefore forbidden, if you follow a superstrict approach to "adornment".

Originally Posted by yarahbellydance

Anyway, according to her lots of dancers in Arabic countries wear bindis.
None of the dancers I've seen myself (mostly Egyptians) have worn them though...

Bindis are fashion statements - the ones with the glue on the backside. These have no cultural or religous significance whatsoever. People confuse the glue-ons with the religous ceremoniously obtained Tillak and/or Sindhoor. Yes, bindis have an Indian heritage - but they are used just as much in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Srilanka, USA, Europe as anywhere else. Anytime someone wants to be exotic they throw on Thai copper nails, a hipscarf and a bindi.

Bindis have passed onto a mainstream usage now. Lets let go of the religous connotations, shall we? No Pandit (hindu priest) is going to let a bride or a devotee use a stick-on at a wedding or a religious ceremony instead of the real deal...seriously.

Another observation is that were as Islam and Sikhism and other religions define their purity by excluding things of Hindu (and other) heritage (idol worship etc) - bindis have not been put on the "naughty list". The tillak has. Sindhoor has. Not the Bindi.

Originally Posted by zamora

we do not wear them.belly dance is not hindu or punjab. a member of a local group steats that the punjab use the bindi instead of a caste mark.
this is right up there with henna. we do not wear it either.it is a wedding thing, first done on those who could not afford wedding jewelery, so it was henned on.

If that is the case then those punjabis need to get their facts straight - bindis/tillaks aren't a Punjabi tradition, it is a Hindu tradition - if we were to examine it that closely, and considering that there is a HUGE congregation of Sikhs in Fresno where you are at - they have no right to be upset about usage of Bindis, and neither should you be taking this into consideration, because:
1. Sikhism considers the caste system, social hierarchy and gender discrimination a sin.

2. Sikhs are not Hindus.

3. Hindus wear bindis for fashion unless they're ULTRAconservative. Those Hindus only exist in India...
.....

Henna is not of religous significance unless it is used in a marriage connotation - however, no religion as far as I know aknowledgs Henna as an integral part of the marriage rites. Culturally it is, yes, but not religiously. Henna is used all over the Middle East and Central-South Asia for many other purposes than just in marriage traditions.....

david, the family who shared this with us might have done so within them.we spoke at a festival.they had split from their family members on faith.they made it sound as if they were wearing a bindi from time to time to make the others happy.
worked for zorasters too, fun people. it is usual here for ethnic cultures to borrow from each other to blend in.odd !

btw, we were not taking anything in for "concerderation".we wetre at their festival as guests exchanging sword tips.their family remains hindu in india.
but they did say it was a decoration for them, very diff with the old folks back home.
relax!

We all wear bindis around my neck of the woods - color coordinate them with our costumes, earrings, or other jewelry. That's when we're not co-opting Tikkas instead. They're fun!

The Indian folks I've run across all seem to think its cool - I've had offers of free Henna (Yay!), and asked if I've ever tried a Sari (would love to, but wouldn't have a clue how to wrap it!). They probably think I'm some weird kind of Hijra, but then they probably wouldn't treat me so nicely if that were the case.

Originally Posted by zfejzic

ditto. i was taught this was more sacred and private and shouldn't be connected w/the dance whatsoever

Well, Indians dance with bindis on all the time! ..l;,

There's a "sacred" version when you watch for example a Bharata Natyam dancer who dances a piece about a god.
But as you can see from this example, contrary to Islam, in Hinduism dance and religion are not separated but they belong together!
There are many classical and folkloric dances, many of them originated from temples or religious festivals.

So you CAN wear a so-called "fancy bindi" for whatever occasion and of course for dancing. I just don't do it for Oriental dance because people already have a hard time keeping the different styles I do apart. "Ah, you and your Indian bellydancing!" ..l;,

MEISSOUN

And then there's Ansuya, a beautiful American Cabaret Dancer who fuses her costume pieces, to include the wearing of a bindi. ANSUYA.COM - i would definately say that classical egyptian dancers do not wear bindis, but the more fusion styles do. besides all of the reasons above, it has also become a fashion accessory in the states. Young girls like to add them to their fashion, which lends itself to broadening their cultural influences. besides all of the traditional meaning behind them, they are beautiful and fun to wear!

Decorative Bindi Belly Dance Jewelry - At DancingRahana.com


Belly Dance Costume Boutique - At DancingRahana.com

I find them rather dated, myself. For belly dancers, I mean.

Thanks for all your answers and beautiful pics! Going to try some new make up ideas!

Sorry, I meant to write "Indian" and not "Hindu" ( in Spanish the word "hindú" is often used in the same way as "indio", for an example Bollywood dance is often referred to as "baile hindú" even if it's not a religious dance form". ).

I think if I wanted to wear a bindi (there are so many beautiful ones on the market) but didn't want to imply 'Indian' I might wear it someplace besides my anja chakra.

Like under the corner of my eye, or group several together on one temple.

That's just me, though.

One caution to those who enjoy wearing bindis between your eyebrows.... from a distance, instead of looking like a bindi it can look like a big ugly blemish or wart.

For example, when the cover photo of this DVD is reduced to smaller than the picture on this link The Way to Belly Dance (DVD) by Sira, Yasmine, Azziza, Natalia, Hannah, Shahira (The Way to Belly Dance (DVD) by Sira, Yasmine, Azziza, Natalia, Hannah, Shahira): Tulumba.com it kind of gives the impression that she has a large bleeding sore between her eyebrows. (The photo on this particular link is big enough to be ok, but other sites that sell this DVD reduce the cover photo to a smaller size and those don't look so good.)

No - I have at least a hundred hours of pro Middle Eastern belly dancers. The only piece that may have a bindi wearing belly dancer is Amani doing some Indian temple schtick. No bindis.

Frankly I think they look really naff on a belly dancer and on stage they make you look like you are frowning. I strongly discourage students from wearing them when perfroming.

Originally Posted by DancingRahana

And then there's Ansuya, a beautiful American Cabaret Dancer who fuses her costume pieces, to include the wearing of a bindi. ANSUYA.COM

RAAAAAAAHAAAANAAAA!!! Good to see you on here :=) Guys, for those of you that dont know, Rahana is one fab dancer from down here in SoCal. Sorry for outing you Rahana .)

yarahbellydance: hehe, yes I know... I'm sorry if I came down hard. I forgot to keep in mind that you're in Spain. My mistake. Yes, I know of the Baila de Indo...I come across this "problem" when I work in Mexico hehe.

Lauren's suggestion about wearing the Bindi elsewhere than between the eyebrows is a great one. Another point I'd like to make - from just a stage esthetic standpoint is - if you are going to wear a bindi on stage/when performing you have to make it big enough to where people dont have to get a magnifying glass to see it. Get a big one :)

These are just too whimpy to give the effect needed:

Bindis Bindi Body Art Temporary Tattoos Wedding Jewels Belly Dancing Jewels Stick on tattoos body jewels

The bindis that go in an arch over your eyes are typically used for weddings only...nobody's going to get offended if you use them, but they may think it's a bit odd or ignorant. (note, I'm speaking from an Indian cultural standpoint - I dont know what Morroccans do)

Shiraaaa, you teasing us. That's a headband with a button on it, not a bindi lol. But I see what you mean. I personally also want people to avoid looking like they had a creative paintjob done to their unibrow.....g.:

The bindis that go in an arch over your eyes are typically used for weddings only...nobody's going to get offended if you use them, but they may think it's a bit odd or ignorant. (note, I'm speaking from an Indian cultural standpoint - I dont know what Morroccans do)

David,

This is a good point to bring up in that a lot of people want to wear bindis or other cultural things because they "look cool" and not understand the significance.

I had a friend of mine where a fashion bindi at the top of her forehead. I tried to politely correct her and show her the proper place to wear it. She said that she liked wearing it at the top of her head. Since she refused to place it properly I didn't say anything else.

I'm just glad there were no Indians present at the event we went to. I would've been sooo embarrassed because it looked a bit ridiculous...ok, a LOT ridiculous.

Originally Posted by david

Shiraaaa, you teasing us. That's a headband with a button on it, not a bindi lol. But I see what you mean.

Yeah, I agree it's not a bindi, but I posted it because it really illustrates the point I was trying to make about center-of-the-forehead decorations not necessarily looking flattering from a distance!

I think wearing bindis all depends on the circumstances - there are situations where I would not dream if it, and there are situations where I superglue lots of bling to my face.

I make my own bindis with rhinestones, and I wear them to match my costumes, these bindis are chunkier and bigger than what I buy in an Indian grocery store. I would certainly not wear them with a sleek Egyptian costume or for a very beledi performance, and even less so for a very folkloric performance, but when a performance calls for an outfit that is more inspired by, e.g. Dalia Carella, I feel it is perfectly OK to include a bindi. People often ask me about them, and I explain that they have no religious significance when worn as a costume accessory, and that I make them myself, which people always appreciate.