Thread: Covering Up?

Hullo, my first post here (I`ll write an intro too though :) )
I`m a newbie to dancing, around a year. I`ve been looking lately at clips on Youtube, of vintage belly dancers. I also saw the Legends of Bellydance dvd, with dancers from the forties to the seventies.
One thing that`s struck me is that way back when, many of the outfits were actually skimpier than now!
I watched old film clips with the dancers wearing very low hip belts with the sheerest wisps of chiffon, unlayered, all see through.
In one..I forget the name of the actress and dancer but will look it up later...she wore a kind of dress, made of black chiffon with sequins, all of it totally see through, with her undies showing.
Now, this was in the Legends dvd, and was an obviously `respectable` movie.
My point is, I see many discussions about what is appropriate in the amount of flesh to show.
And though in the past dancers often wore midriff covers, often the fabric of the costume was very much more sheer than todays, and sometimes more revealing.
Thigh slit skirts, sheerest chiffon, see through dresses...
There is something appealling, to me, in the typical seventies bellydance outfit, that I miss today, and it appeals to the romantic in me, which I know will maybe appall some here.
What happened, over time, to those outfits? Are there fashion trends in belly dance outfits the same as in mainstream life?
I heard an interesting conversation once between dancers about how the dancers of the past were more demure, and covered up more, but from what I have seen, that surely wasn`t always true! Even vintage postcards from Egypt and Turkey which show dancers display that skimpy, seductress image.
How much of that was only for the tourists, or to cater for the `Hollywood` image of the day, does anyone know?
And, would a dancer wearing such an outfit nowadays be scorned or looked down upon by other dancers?
What do others think?

We recently had a discussion call the Demise of the thighs which might help shed some light on current ideas.

As for the see through dress, etc, the truth is that it all depends - and depended - on the dancer, the venue and the audience. We have our share of "naked" dresses around here. One of my favorite looks - and I swear I will make this - is voided velvet beledi dress with beading and fringe strategically placed. This gives lots of hints without being totally "here are my underpants!"

I also think that there have always been variations to the theme. Not everyone always wore sheerest chiffon in a single layer. I know that there were dancers in the '60's who performed in some venues with chiffon harem pants and pasties, and yet they performed in others with full bedlah and multiple skirts where not a scrap of leg showed!

I also thing that a lot has to do with the fact that the modesty laws in Egypt and other places are being more stringently enforced. This influences what we wear.

And finally, many of us are attempting to raise this dance form to a higher art. Make it more family friendly. And that is hard to do if one if putting forth the 'seductress' image!

{{{HUGS}}}

BTW - Welcome!

Hi PatriciaMac,
Welcome to Bhuz. Many of us are fascinated, even obsessed, with belly dance costumes, so join the club! Yes there are fashion trends in belly dance costumes that reflect current fashion trends in the real world. But yes you can wear the 70s look and no one will scorn you, it's enjoying somewhat of a revival.

Dancers try to choose costumes that flatter their particular body and coloring, and not everyone looks good in lycra, while others don't look as good in full chiffon skirts. It all depends.

Dancers also try to choose costumes that complement the venue, music and dance style they are using, so that everything works together to form a pleasing whole in the performance.

What Tahira said.

There are definitely trends in BD costuming--you pointed out some yourself. There's the Dina cup style and the skin-tight lycra of today, the tiaras of the 80s, etc. But just like in regular fashion, you have trendy, classic and old-fashioned. Wearing a tiara, in many(not all) cases would be considered a bit old fashioned. Wearing bedlah and chiffon skirt, especially for a GP audience, would typically be considered classic. There's also just plain ugly, and you can find plenty of threads here on that!

You hit the nail on the head with the postcards. Many of those old postcards are total fantasies that played to tourists and were often painted or staged and photographed by foreigners in the first place. Some of them are stunningly beautiful (and with some tweaking for real coverage would make great costume designs), but they rarely depict what any dancer would actually have worn.

The Bellydancers of Cairo documentary addresses this issue of coverage perception "over there"--they interview an Egyptian man who very much disagrees with women bellydancing in public. He trots out the Golden Era greats, saying they didn't dress so skimpily back then, they were good girls, etc. But we see the visuals of these same dancers wearing slits right up to there, etc. Sometimes the way we (collectively) remember things and the way they really were are two different things.

Originally Posted by PatriciaMac

Are there fashion trends in belly dance outfits the same as in mainstream life?

There are definitely fashion trends in belly dance costuming - mainly because there are couture designers in Egypt and Turkey that help to dictate taste, just like in fashion. Now, the hot designers are Sahar and Eman, who have sleek, minimalist lines with less fringe.

Some of the fashion trends I'm thinking of are the big crowns and shoulder epaulets in the 1980's, and then the poufy sleeves of the 1990's. Pharonics of Egypt always makes me think of the 1990's too.

Don't forget that the rise of Islamic fundamentalism has contributed to this effect. Dancers in the Middle East in the Mid-20th Century lived in a different cultural environment, entertaining a cosmopolitan clientele in the dance clubs, and those movies are reflecting that. As fundamentalism gained traction, it became more socially unacceptable for a dancer to show too much skin...not that it was ever particularly socially acceptable to be a dancer--it's never been a career you wanted a woman in your family to have. Fundamentalism resulted in the morality laws that prohibited dancers from wearing "revealing" costumes in Egypt for a while. (If you are trawling YouTube and suddenly start coming across videos of Souheir Zaki and Fifi Abdo wearing costumes with mesh stomach covers, they are probably from this era.) The Egyptian costume laws have been largely reversed, but I suspect you could still get arrested for moral inappropriateness over there if they felt you deserved it for what you were wearing.

Meanwhile on the other side of the Mediterranean, you had the political shifting in Lebanon, which turned Beirut, the Paris of the Middle East, from a place where sophisticated travelers expected to see nightclub entertainment of the quality one might find in Paris, London, or Rome into a place where you wouldn't want to be caught dead, literally. As their population also shifted toward religious fundamentalism and Christians began to emigrate out of Lebanon to other parts of the world, what tempered Lebanese society and made it so diverse and worldly began to narrow.

But there is also a simple answer to your query--fashion designers like to change things up to keep stuff selling. Costumes go in and out of style. Voluminous chiffon skirts and big globs of fringe were popular for a while, and then it was mermaid skirts and short fringe, and now it is revealing lycra skirts and very little fringe. After everybody has sold off, cut up, or otherwise abandoned the big skirt/big fringe style, it'll be time to bring it back. As it is, there are rumblings that the retro harem girl skirt (full skirt slit practically up to the belt) is getting ready to ride the next style wave.

Great thread!

Seems your question is already answered. I see bellydance fashion as similar to fashion in general. Yes there are trends. There are avante garde designs that are whimsical, far-out and humorous, and there are everyday workhorse costumes, and everything in between.

Some dancers are fashionistas and enjoy following the current trend and wearing the latest creations. Some find a look that flatters them and wear mostly variations on that theme throughout their careers. Some are very practical and want to own a few sturdy versatile pieces.

I'm as all-over-the-road with bellydance wear as I am with everyday fashions. I like to look at what's coming off the runway but can't usually afford it. The ridiculous things I laugh at one season sometimes become the very things I'm coveting a year later.


I'm on a tight budget, so I focus on practical separates in both my wardrobes (bras & belts with assorted skirts for dance, jeans and slacks and tops for every day) but when I can pick up a gorgeous designer dress on e-bay -- or a lightly used designer costume on the swap meet -- I'll do it!

As far as showing skin -- I think it's funny that in both the US and Egypt we have this sense that women were more modest back in the good old days. Watching those Egyptian films -- or Hollywood films -- from the 40s and 50s, I'm AMAZED how often legs and cleavage and backs were revealed. Remember, in Hollywood at the time they were concocting plots to put women in swimsuits onscreen ALL the time. Synchronized swimmers were the hot trend in the 30s, and by the 1960s beach blanket movies were the Baywatch of their time...

Oh, and another point about Legends is that the legends of belly dance can also get away with more risque things, like their attire. Maybe not all dancers were dressing as Souheir with exposed thighs and high slits.

Like Madonna - she can get away with weird outfits in music videos and concerts because she's Madonna. Dina can wear metal bras and miniskirts because she's Dina.

I can't wear a bullet bra to the club and definitely can't wear a dina costume to my restaurant gig!

Yes, BD fashion is all over the place, we can get away with a look from any era in the right venue and with the right audience.

That's really what it's about to me... matching the right outfit (and music!) to the right venue and audience.

Our costuming sends a message. We have to consider not only the message we want to send but the how the audience will perceive it in that place.

For example, I might be in the mood to go retro-glam Souhair Zaki, but if my GP audience just sees it as "chick in a too skimpy skirt" then the message is lost and it's unflattering to me as a performer.

The same costume for a group of dancers in the know or Arabs from that era would get a totally different (and better) reaction IMO.

Mahin

Originally Posted by phillyraqs

Oh, and another point about Legends is that the legends of belly dance can also get away with more risque things, like their attire. Maybe not all dancers were dressing as Souheir with exposed thighs and high slits.

Like Madonna - she can get away with weird outfits in music videos and concerts because she's Madonna. Dina can wear metal bras and miniskirts because she's Dina.

I can't wear a bullet bra to the club and definitely can't wear a dina costume to my restaurant gig!

Yes! Stars need to set themselves apart, and can get away with some pretty insane getups (and always have -- think of the stuff Cher was wearing in the 60s when a lot of those Egyptian films were coming out).

Thanks for the responses....there did seem to be a dichotomy between the politics behind clothing of dancers in their native countries, and what was being touted to other countries for the sake of tourism. These replies are interesting reading. :)
I like the concept of `appropriateness` for costumes, taking account of what kind of venue you`ll be dancing at, and for example, I wouldn`t wear something too revealing somewhere there`d be small children around, at a family event, but I would love to step into that seventies nightclub vibe perhaps dancing at one of the biker rallies I`ve been to, for fun. :)
At the moment, I don`t dance for any audience, and I make my own costumes from scratch..finances dictate this and also the fact that I have a hard time finding costumes in my price range which would fit my ample bosom! Narrow back, large boobs, and all the off the peg costumes I seem to fit lately appear to assume my frame doesn`t exist! :(
But looking at dance costume through the ages (am probably talking more cabaret here than ethnic/folklore) I was just struck by how revealing some of the outfits of the past were....or rather, cleavage didn`t seem to be so much on show as it is now, but legs? Definately!
Perhaps the unspoken `rule` is the same as for streetwear nowadays? If you show cleavage, cover up the bottom half more for both decency and taste, but if you show legs, cover the top, ditto. :)
I admit to being old enough to remember Cher from the early days, imo she`s a one-of-a-kind, and can get away with anything (and often has :D ) but Madonna isn`t someone I like the look of...she always seems somehow...crass....apologies to Madonna fans, I can`t take her musical talent away from her but there`s just something about all that middle aged crotch thrusting that makes me cringe...
Have to say though, that even although those older outfits I saw in clips were revealing, none of the dancers were indecent in their dance nor their behaviour, and they carried the outfits off with flair and elegance.
I guess, in the end, I`m an old fashioned girl...my eyes are always drawn to seventies bedlahs and sheer chiffon, wisps of fabric with sequins and rhinestones, the fantasy of it all. ;)
And I admit to not really liking the current trend for the no-belt skirt, maybe because it seems to be getting harder to tell that kind of dress/outfit from a glamorous evening gown, and somehow, I`d want my outfits to be obviously dance, y`know?
But everyone has their own personal tastes of course. :)
Many thanks for your answers and for giving me more insight onto a subject that fascinates me. :)