Thread: Spinoff: Beautiful Middle Eastern Women of All Colors

I used to tan myself silly to look more "exotic" for clients. That is, until I had to get a possible melanoma biopsied today. I will never, ever tan again. (See my previous thread).

The offending mole is under a microscope. As a result, my existing ideals of exotic beauty have gone under the microscope, as well.

I really want to write something informative, compelling and persuasive, to get clients and dancers to think about the potential repercussions of narrowing BD beauty down to the popular Orientalist stereotype.

What I'd love to see are some pictures of gorgeous Middle Eastern women of all skin, hair and eye colors. I need inspiration. So feed me! Nom nom nom nom nom...*nibbles*

Haifa has amazing porcelain skin, black hair, and blue eyes. Hmmm. Just like me! ..g.:

Scarey stuff, melanoma. Hope it comes back negative!

Here's a pic I found:

That girl in the middle (of Dunyah's first pic) could be my niece. She is half Afghan.

She is so frustrated at being constantly pegged as the dark girl and conflated with all other "dark" people and all ME people.


Satin, perhaps you could draw on the Orientalist paintings that show blonde and fair-skinned women almost exclusively, with the only "exotic dark women" being slaves and servants? No shortage of fair models there.

Of course, another factor is that you don't have to be ME to belly dance, and pretending to be ME and trying to use ME people as examples of why it's OK for you to BD even though you're not brown is kind of not the point...

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Haifa has amazing porcelain skin, black hair, and blue eyes. Hmmm. Just like me! ..g.:

Looks like her neck is darker than her fae (make-up) in that picture. Also, is that her real eye color? I do think Haifa is beautiful but some ME women have their own color issues as well. It's funny that in the ME the very dark can't be dance stars while here the very fair try to be darker. Let's all be happy with what we have.

Haifa Wahbe: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1QLB7nCPUA&feature=related]YouTube - haifa wehbe- before and now[/ame]

You be the judge

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if2ywlFWeGI&feature=fvw]YouTube - HAIFA WEHBE BEFORE PLASTIC SURGERY . هي�اء وهبي قبل و بعد التجميل[/ame]

Originally Posted by zumarrad

Of course, another factor is that you don't have to be ME to belly dance, and pretending to be ME and trying to use ME people as examples of why it's OK for you to BD even though you're not brown is kind of not the point...

That's actually a great point. When dissecting the stereotype, I tend to ask myself: 1. Why does a BDer have to look "Middle Eastern?" and 2. What does "looking Middle Eastern" even mean?

I guess it's a multi-pointed question and we can feasibly point the viewer in the direction of Jillina, Ava Fleming, Dina, Amar Gamal, Kaeshi Chai, Dondi, Aunt Rocky....so many different looking dancers of all nationalities under the umbrella of greatness.

And wow...really?

I guess I've only seen enough pictures of Haifa to assume that she's just naturally colored that way. Guess that brings another dimension to the story and to my initial point ,f::

She's just as stunning before the "enhancements."

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

She's just as stunning before the "enhancements."

She is.

I hope the biopsy comes back okay. You're in my prayers.

Well fake tans are better for strong stage lights. That is why bodybuilders on stage have very dark tans.

But I wouldn't necessarily rate a person "more attractive" because they had a tan.

This is surprising to me. I never see any dancers with darker skin DESPITE Egypt, and other middle eastern darker populations. That makes me sad. The typical for me is the pale...

I have you in my thoughts for your biopsy, I certainly hope all will be well. *Hugs*

Originally Posted by rakgirl

...in the ME the very dark can't be dance stars while here the very fair try to be darker. Let's all be happy with what we have.

Amen.

A lot of issues here.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

Of course, another factor is that you don't have to be ME to belly dance, and pretending to be ME and trying to use ME people as examples of why it's OK for you to BD even though you're not brown is kind of not the point...

Word. Satin, you are literally the only person I've ever heard talk about this being an issue. In my 9 years in the dance world, I've only ever heard of dancers not being hired because their skin was too dark; never too light.

Here in my neck of the woods, the Arabs love blondes and redheads (exotic to them) and the GP is more likely to associate bellydance with I Dream of Jeannie than with the Middle East. (did anyone ever wonder exactly where she was supposed to be from and why she was a platinum blonde?)

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I Dream of Jeannie than with the Middle East. (did anyone ever wonder exactly where she was supposed to be from and why she was a platinum blonde?)

No idea why she was a platinum blonde, but she always said she was from Baghdad in the show. ..l;,

Lauren - There have been a few posts about this recently. Sidonia was concerned about this in a recent thread called "When Skin and Hair Color Matters." I thought I was the only one who went through that, but evidently, others have been at a disadvantage among the GP for not fitting a stereotype. There were a lot of interesting viewpoints expressed on the thread about the topic. Might be worth a read - it's definite food for thought.

Arab and Greek audiences around here LOVE blondes and redheads. I think that's fairly universal! I had a lot of adoring Greek fans the summer I went blonde ..g.: . And my first teacher and good friend is an Irish looking redhead, but gets more work and more respect from the local Arab community than many dancers could dream of. It really is inspiring and cool.

Maybe my problem was that I looked a little more beachy-blonde than Jeannie-blonde. TanyaLV does that classic Jeannie-blonde like nobody's business! Platinum blonde just looks silly on me, gorgeous as it may be on others....and yes, I've tried it

Originally Posted by jessedan

No idea why she was a platinum blonde, but she always said she was from Baghdad in the show. ..l;,

Nothing about that show makes sense. But I'm content to leave it at that, because Jeannie was so darned cute and fun!

Hey,

I am very light skinned in winter. Still, I love to tan (not healthy, I know..)

The lighter, the better in most Arab countries and families. Light girls will be preferred marriage partners. Many more "exotic" looking girls I know were told by interested families, especially by the women/mothers, they wanted somone "lighter skinned" for their son.
Still, I love the exotic look. And I tan in summer..
But well ironically white is more attractive for Arab girls in general perception, just like all over Asia where girls avoid the sun and buy skin lightener as opposed to tanner in the West.
Also, the white crazein the Arab lands is a sign for much latent racism. One wants to distinguish oneself from the Black Africans, as something "better". Very dark Arabs, descendants of freed slaves, face much racism in the societies, and are often extremely unhappy with their dark skin.

As for the hair: Well, that is probably a divide among the audience, who loves to have the impression they are seeing an Arabian woman, or who just wants to see the women they find "hot" (light-haired as exotic as someone said).

As to the orientalist paintings:
Satin, perhaps you could draw on the Orientalist paintings that show blonde and fair-skinned women almost exclusively, with the only "exotic dark women" being slaves and servants? No shortage of fair models there.

Those blonde, fair skinned women in Sultan harems in the Ottoman empire mostly were abducted Europeans from the Balkans, particuarly from Bulgaria. pretty light-skinned girls were abducted, raised in Turkey, and then sold for high prices as white slaves. I have a lot to do in Bulgaria, recently, and even though I knew children were stolen from the Balkanys, this history is still present and a big wound in Bulgarian conscience. Pretty girls were stolen for (sex) slavery, young boys were stolen to make part of a particularly cruel army: The Bulgarian boys were converted and raised Muslims, and then formed part of an elite troupe fighting against their own countrymen, Bulgarian resistance. So Bulgarians killing Bulgarians rather than shedding "worthier" Muslim blood.

Knowing this horrible history the orientalist paintings and romanticism evoked seems terribly shallow, don't you think?

So well that is for the blonde, fair-skinned women actually not being Mideastern. There are VERY few women of that complexion in the Mideast. Most really are brunettes or black haired naturally. But skin color does vary a great deal.

And as for Haifa:
One of those "Haifa before surgery" youtube videos showed her as a younger, darker skinned and black eyed girl. I fund her a million times more attractive, but much of Arab society will think the other way around. I definitely think Haifa lightens her skin and probably wears lightening skin make up.

Nagwa's face to me looks odd, color-wise, way lighter than her body here:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTUoWyOEETg]YouTube - Egyptian Belly Dance Nagwa Fouad رقص شرقي نجوى �ؤاد[/ame]

I think she applied lots of whitening make up. that is pretty common for society ladies in the Mideast.
Nagwa in interviews seems pretty dark. Like if you've seen Natasha Senkovich's interview section with her on "Bellydancers of Cairo"?
Hope this added some value :)

So Satin - I think you must be much admired as a slim black haired with straight hair (which just like in Latin America has become such a huge trend - everyone with curls particularly in ultra-fashionable countries like Lebanon straightens their hair) in Arab restaurants.
You conform very much to the beauty ideal (except for the ones wanting to see hot blondes or other fair haired women :) ) if tanned or not.
Tanned you are more exotic, porcelain skinned you might conform more to the beauty ideal of the Mideast than you previously thought! You'll be like an Arabian princess to them! (Remember in Europe not even 100 years ago being tanned meant you were poor - being white meant you were noble and could stay indoors all day; I think this mentality is somewhat present in the Mideast until today.)

people always want what they can't have. Arabs prefer blonde bders. the GP prefers brunettes and girls who are a little darker. i was hired once for a bat mitzvah because i looked turkish. What does that even mean? Long dark hair?

Also, another question to ask (not really related to topic so sorry) is why do girls with straight hair always feel the need to curl their hair and create volume? Why do girls with naturally voluminous, curls cascading down their backs hair want to straighten theirs? Everyone is looking for the "other" the "exotic," whatever it may be for that individual.

Absolutely true.

For many Mideasterners in the West I'd say they also want the "back home" look, even if that is not "exotic" to them.
I wished I could see more Arabian looking girls bellydancing where I live. Might be thought of as silly, but as nice as the blonde bellydancers over here often dance - I'd love to have some back-home feeling.
(Also of course the feeling and understanding of music and lyrics part plays a role.. from what I've heard many European Arabs would love to hire an Arab dancer, but none of the girls in the community here wants to make a living out of dancing - she'd be afraid of the reputation; the schizophonic quality of the Arab community. We want it, yet the girl would have a bad standing if she did it...)

Different people are going to like different looks and you can't please everyone. I like the variety in looks you see among Mediterrean people, I also like the variety of looks among Western or Latin societies. Every dancer has her own beauty, whether she is a pale blonde or redhead, a beige skinned brunette, or a caramel girl with raven curls. If each of these girls dance in town A, and 1/3 of the public prefers each look, then all the girls will hear people want a different look 2/3 of the time. You can focus on the rejections and complain that most people don't like your look, or you can look at the ones who like your look and style and be happy that each girl has her audience.

Well said. Variety is a beautiful thing, and a good mix in a town is going to please everyone I think. After all seeing even the type you visually or culturally prefer gets dull, and diversity will spice things up.

I would love to see more black-skinned dancers, btw. Even in the US I see somewhat less than I would expect.

after changing hair colour (from blond to red), i've totally come to terms with my pale skin... ;-)

i use some selftanning spray sometimes for stage gigs, but that's it...

lauren, i do have lost gigs because they specificually want a dancer "from over there"... but, well, nomatter how much tanning u use that's not gonna help:-) so i dont let it get to me...

Originally Posted by Zobeida

Also, another question to ask (not really related to topic so sorry) is why do girls with straight hair always feel the need to curl their hair and create volume? Why do girls with naturally voluminous, curls cascading down their backs hair want to straighten theirs? Everyone is looking for the "other" the "exotic," whatever it may be for that individual.

I have curly hair and I do wear it straight. So I can answer this. Easy-I get bored. LOL. I won't cut my hair since it is curly and it won't look good short. So when I am bored, I switch up. I will wear it straight for a while, then go to curly, then back. Sometimes I straighten to curl it-so I can get the big banana curls. It is my way to change my hair without actually cutting it. Also when it is straight, it is easier to maintain and I don't get random people touching my hair. I HATE when I wear my hair curly and random people come up to touch it. GRRRRRR!! I understand you like my curls but hands off, you are gonna make it frizzy.

Originally Posted by artemisia_danst

lauren, i do have lost gigs because they specificually want a dancer "from over there"... but, well, nomatter how much tanning u use that's not gonna help:-) so i dont let it get to me...

Yes, maybe that's why I've never come across it or been aware of it. I'm not close enough to that look for anyone to even bother mentioning it. I don't think anyone in my area could pass for Arab, except one dancer who is actually half Lebanese and she's retired from performance.

Originally Posted by dinavienna

And as for Haifa:
One of those "Haifa before surgery" youtube videos showed her as a younger, darker skinned and black eyed girl. I fund her a million times more attractive, but much of Arab society will think the other way around. I definitely think Haifa lightens her skin and probably wears lightening skin make up.

I am amazed at the number of skin lightening creams and make up available at any pharmacy in Cairo - I had no idea that there were so many concoctions to try to look lighter! So here we are, tanning in the US to look more "right", while Haifa is lightening her skin to look more "right" too.

Let's figure out a way to dye our skin blue, start the trend, and then all make millions from the product.