Thread: What doth an outfit professional make?

Corny quasi- Shakespere aside...

Can an outfit only be 'professional' [ie to be worn by one, not made by one] if it is totally beaded/blinged out? Are dotted with sequin with the occasional well placed motif/fabric emphasizing/ sparse but asthetically pleasingly beaded outfits only for 'juniors' and belly bunnies? Are they as bad as the butterflies and crochet tops?

Just interested, after encountering a rather... opinionated... restaurant owner who felt the need to share an [expert, of course] opinion on almost anything. I personally don't favour fully beaded costumes, and prefer subtler designs, especially if a rich fabric is involved. As far as I am concerned, all of my non- beaded are just as professional if not more so then some I have seen- airport specials, anyone?

But it go me thinking, so I thought I would ask around.

Just to clarify- I don't mean of the level of pinning a brooch to a lingerie bra and going 'oh, 'tis finished'. I mean outfits well planned, balanced and tweaked, straps and sundries replaced and unified though possibly not beaded, asthetically unified, with matched accessories continuing the style... just not totally beaded/sequined from corner to corner.

You're right, of course, but if your boss has certain expectations of the way you should look, you may have to make a choice as to whether you will bend a little on your own preferences to give him the look he wants.

Actually, I do think that the minimalist movement has gotten a bit out of hand over the past several years - the basic Sahars being a good example. I know in some areas of the country they were very popular for a time - can any of the dancers who wear/wore these report on any negative or positive audience response with these styles?

I do miss the days of the Madame Abla monster costume. You KNEW that sucker was a belly dance costume - no way to mistake it for anything else, and it weighed at least 7 pounds and had fringe EVERYWHERE...sigh...

I prefer bling, myself, but I do find some of the minimalist designs pleasing, if the decorations that are there are in eye catching locations or if the fabric has something special about it. I just traded for a fairly minimal Eman (won't get it until later this week), but I love it in the pictures because there is an "art deco" feel to it.

I never have cared for the Sahar designs that have nothing on them, though. But, alot of dancers love them.

I agree that a costume covered in bling and a minimalistic eman are both professional costumes.

However, I also believe that bellydance fashion is often wasted on the general public, especially restaurant owners. They want to see a stereotype of a bellydancer, with loads of fringe, sequins and chiffon. A professional dancer adjusts her performance to the needs of the audience and the person that hired her.


I feel your pain! Maybe you could try to convince the restaurant owner by wearing a minimalistic costume for one set, then a fringetastic one for the next?

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

I do miss the days of the Madame Abla monster costume. You KNEW that sucker was a belly dance costume - no way to mistake it for anything else, and it weighed at least 7 pounds and had fringe EVERYWHERE...sigh...

me too!
and some restaurant owners/managers have a fringy blingy vision of what a belly dancer looks like and thats what they expect. consider it a gift that he was open and honest about what they need for their venue so you have a chance to adapt and keep your job

some venues "get" the egyptian minimalist costumes and some only want fringe monsters. same as with music, we just need to know our audiences and costume accordingly. don't take it personally

I have two bellydance wardrobes. One for the GP restaurant gigs and one for the bellydance audience. The restaurant gigs are Hanan bedlah and skirt and sleeves made by me and the the bellydance gigs are less fringing-Emans etc
That way I look like a bellydancer for the GP but not too old fashioned and I look like i know what I'm doing to the BD audience too. restaurants like bedlahs and they suit me too but I know a BD audience would deem them old hat.

I think a professional dancer needs a wardrobe of costumes so she can pander to the whims of those that hire her.

Thanks for sharing! Keep it coming.

As an aside, I might have come across more whiny then I meant to there :)

I couldn't give two hoots about that opinion - Not my job, not my scene. I wouldn't work there myself ever for reasons other then the costume one. It just made me stop and think, and I found it an interesting one.

I actually agree, even with my minamalist taste, that some of the Sahar's swing too much the other way. I would never go bling-less ! Obulance is the GP association with belly dance, and if it isn't found in maximum fringe and bead, then there has got to be something else to replace it, IMO.

But, to elaborate, this specific person remarked on one costume I own, too- ironically, fully beaded from tip to toe. It is silk fringed, though [+- 5 inches depth, I think] not bead fringed- and even this one earned a 'not proper' opinion [not that I asked for one :)]. That, I admit, I found wacky- I mean, there is no difference beside the fringing to what the [female] owner was lauding as the one true bedlah :). And you should see this sucker move!

And she also happened to down-speak a well known costume designer out here [doubt any of y'all have ever heard of her] Now, there I felt strongly negative. Her stuff is no where near as minamal as some of the latest Sahars, etc, but she also doesn't fully bead. BUT, I happen to think she keeps that opulance factor, and I think a lot of her work is beautiful. I wonder if I have a pic somewhere on here?

Anyway, I shall cease rambling and get back to y'all!

EDT: Just to add, that I agree on the necessity for wardrobe varation too, hence my fully beaded bedlahs, and the explanation for my few straight-cut skirts. Personally, i don't like them...but some clients do so they are there for as and when. It is part and parcel of the pro thing. I meant this more as a bit of a discussion as to what makes a costume professional quality- is it only the weight and bling?

Oh, and I can't resist swanking on this, Tamrahenna- I have one set, coined not fringed, that I can never take overseas with me because it kills my luggage allowance! 4kg [+- 8pounds] on the bedlah and another 3kg on skirt!

amira, I don't think you're whiny. Sounds like the restaurant owner is whiny one to me!

Lol, thanks. Just wanted to make it clear that I have no vested interest in this- I don't dance there and never will. Think some folks thought the comment had been about me specifically- it was an aside about another dancer, actually.

Just thought it was an interesting point to mull over :)

Hate to say this, but many of the Sahars, especially those with no embellishment, remind me a coverup wrap skirt thrown over a bikini. Yes, I have heard they have some kind of fabulously engineered bra. But 1200-2000 dollars for plain lycra fabric? Please.

Originally Posted by Amira_Siddiqah

Lol, thanks. Just wanted to make it clear that I have no vested interest in this- I don't dance there and never will. Think some folks thought the comment had been about me specifically- it was an aside about another dancer, actually.

Just thought it was an interesting point to mull over :)

Ha, sorry - I guess it was me who jumped to conclusions.

Originally Posted by Souzan

Hate to say this, but many of the Sahars, especially those with no embellishment, remind me a coverup wrap skirt thrown over a bikini. Yes, I have heard they have some kind of fabulously engineered bra. But 1200-2000 dollars for plain lycra fabric? Please.

Amen to that!

I don't have a problem with minimalist constumes, but i am annoyed when they cost just as much or more that the heavilly hand beaded ones. A lot of work went into those so I can understand the heavy price tag, but I'm not a fan of paying for a name brand when I don't think the item is worth the excessive price.

that said, I had a very simelar experience with my aunt. I'm visiting her i israel and she wants to buy me a belly dance costume, I told her how expensive they were and she didn't believe me. We went to Yafo ( which was amazing by the way) and in a bazaar she showed me 3 turkish specials and 6 butterflies, for 50-70 bucks, saying i was crazy to pay more than that.

It just goes to show you what the GP expectations are for a costume.
I personally would give my left leg ( proverbially speaking..don't know if i could dance without my leg) for one of Asi Haskal's costumes.( he designes for orit maftsir)

I have actually thought about this topic a LOT. People have preferences and expectations. Some (this goes for GP and dancers themselves) will want modern and minimalist, others will want mega fringe and voluminous skirts. I happen to like both, when they are well designed and suit the dancer.

I performed twice on NYE for a mostly Arab audience (predominantly Lebanese). For my first set I wore my red paisley Pharaonics (current favorite for "Here's the bellydancer!" gigs) and for my second set, I wanted something completely different and wore my own red and black modern design, "Lipstick Jungle" (Yaalini named it for me ..g.:) Guess which one a youngish Lebanese woman commented on when I saw her several weeks later - Lipstick Jungle. She said she and the other women loved it. Yet someone else at the same event may have preferred the more traditional Pharaonics style. Thing is, I love both costumes equally and feel fabulous in both.

I adore this Hallah Moustafa on Sonia. I think it's a great design as it is modern, yet incorporates some great fringe and really fits Sonia's style. I WANT IT. ..l;,
Can't find a photo to link directly, but it's the turquoise and purple in her gallery - second pic has her in it - Sonia

I think the costuming for "Dancing With the Stars", which we have discussed previously often looks like something we might consider for a BD costume, is also blurring the lines for what it and isn't a BD costume. In the end, I say wear what makes you feel fabulous and fits the style of dancing you're doing while accommodating the expectations of others to some extent - more if they pay you, less if they don't.

Originally Posted by 0Adara0

It just goes to show you what the GP expectations are for a costume.

I wonder what the GP would think if they saw a turkish airport special next to a bella? sometimes people can't tell the difference in quality until they can see a direct comparison...

Originally Posted by Souzan

Hate to say this, but many of the Sahars, especially those with no embellishment, remind me a coverup wrap skirt thrown over a bikini. Yes, I have heard they have some kind of fabulously engineered bra. But 1200-2000 dollars for plain lycra fabric? Please.

..l;, Yes! I agree!

Originally Posted by sabrinabellydancer

I wonder what the GP would think if they saw a turkish airport special next to a bella? sometimes people can't tell the difference in quality until they can see a direct comparison...

*raises hand* guilty of that one. I did not know that costumes were supposed to have rhinestones until about a year or so into it. I thought it was just beads, coins and sequins. .w.: Now it seems like if your costume doesn't have rhinestones, it's not a decent (erm, professional) costume...even if the quality is spiffy.

Originally Posted by sabrinabellydancer

I wonder what the GP would think if they saw a turkish airport special next to a bella? sometimes people can't tell the difference in quality until they can see a direct comparison...

I showed her an asi haskal, and she still thought i was nuts

http://www.asihaskal.com/image/users...mal/204381.jpg

sooo pretty!

Originally Posted by 0Adara0

Amen to that!

I don't have a problem with minimalist constumes, but i am annoyed when they cost just as much or more that the heavilly hand beaded ones. A lot of work went into those so I can understand the heavy price tag, but I'm not a fan of paying for a name brand when I don't think the item is worth the excessive price.

that said, I had a very simelar experience with my aunt. I'm visiting her i israel and she wants to buy me a belly dance costume, I told her how expensive they were and she didn't believe me. We went to Yafo ( which was amazing by the way) and in a bazaar she showed me 3 turkish specials and 6 butterflies, for 50-70 bucks, saying i was crazy to pay more than that.

It just goes to show you what the GP expectations are for a costume.
I personally would give my left leg ( proverbially speaking..don't know if i could dance without my leg) for one of Asi Haskal's costumes.( he designes for orit maftsir)

Hmm are you talking about the very simple Sahars, a straight slitted skirt held by a star brooch, and the simply bra with the invisible bridge between the cup parts? that one is significantly lower priced, around 300$...

Oh this last one was more directed towards Souzan, sorry for the citation mess..

meh no problem. but I looked on belly dance store and they're closer to 400...which i think is still quite a bit. But thats just me. I think there are some new bellas that cost around that.

yeah well it sure is still quite a bit for what I believe must be less "work" than the excessive beading.
You do pay the design, it s as simple as that, even more than the brand name. It s not like it s Gucci, everyone saw it on Dina - the Western dancer start wearing it, and let s face it: This style kicks a**.
I would love either of them, a Bella or a Sahar :)

both look out of this world IMO. I'm a bling girl - Sahar is about the first time I like something simple as much as something completely over the top. I think the consensus here is a girl needs both, anyway, for different moods and occasions.
AND JUST TO HAVE THEM CLOTHES :)

Thanks for pointing to Asi Haskal.
I had not know this guy - I love some of his work, but some really not.

Like this blue one:
×�סי חסקל רקדן בטן, רקד×*יות בטן ,ASI HASKAL - בגדי ריקוד

REALLY not tasteful..but maybe it's just me.
Overall, I feel he navigates the erotica plane a bit too much for this dance. That s quite risky, to put it back on the "dark side" where much of the general Western public sees it anyway..

That might be an interesting point actually:

I MUCH prefer seeing semi-professional outfits onstage as opposed to high-end designer outfits that I find are tasteless (for the material used, or for the overall design making it look strange or like fetish-stuff..).
What do you guys think?
Is every high-end designer piece a professional costume?
What if it distracts from the dance or does not fit the venue?
On "experimental bellydance" evenings the crowd is obviously different from restaurant shows..

Originally Posted by dinavienna

What do you guys think?
Is every high-end designer piece a professional costume?

NO!

You can´t buy style.
(types a woman who loves funky patterns and think purple/yellow/lime is a wonderful combination of colors,heh)

A costume that is not well fitting(too short,cuts the flesh etc)looks awkward.
It´s easy to pull a Swarowski-dripping beauty of the rack,
but does it fit the dancer figurately and non figurately speaking?
(even when we order something measured)


No matter how many expensive costumes we can now buy,
I still envy the OOAK:s that was put together with thought and taste.


Of course I want this and that when I see it(a lot)
but one of my best buys ever was an assuit dress that I bought from Amira Kattan.
She would not let me buy the model in black,
she handed over a lipstick red one and pinned down the slitted sides.

It was the same dress;but totally different than the one I was about to buy!


The strong color made me look more professional,
and when I didn´t have to show my thighs in every move I got more confident on stage.
When I got too big for it,Dani bought it.
I hope it´s dancing over there right now,who ever owns it:)

Originally Posted by andalee-oriental

*raises hand* guilty of that one. I did not know that costumes were supposed to have rhinestones until about a year or so into it. I thought it was just beads, coins and sequins. .w.: Now it seems like if your costume doesn't have rhinestones, it's not a decent (erm, professional) costume...even if the quality is spiffy.

Oh, I totally disagree! I think there are many beautiful, professional-level costumes out there that don't have rhinestones. It's a different intent, a different look, but no less professional. Think of it this way: anyone can bedazzle some rhinestones onto a butterfly top.

To me a professional costume is made of quality materials, constructed well, fitted appropriately to the dancer and chosen with consideration to the dancer's style, the venue, the audience and the music. This can cover a huge range of styles. Just look at the Kick-Ass Vintage Costumes thread. Many (though not all...) of those costumes would be perfectly appropriate for a pro gig, with narry a rhinestone in sight.

I also think the rhinestone thing is a rather recent (modern) thing..
pretty, but not essential.

If you look at the vintage stuff, coins and pearls are much more popular.

And I can see what you mean - I love purple/orange (bright bright bright orange!)

My Madame Ablas don't have rhinestones. Just lots of sequins and beads! And FRINGE!!!

Engineering clothing to not only perfectly fit but also alter the shape of the body is highly paid work. Pattern drafting just to fit a body requies good math skills that not every seamstress will have. Working magic with clothing engineering requires deep engineering insight and creativity that is rare to find in one person. Other engineers do not work for low wages either.

A dress make by a tailor will cost you five fold a confection dress in the same shape. A corset made to fit you and transform you made in plain cotton will cost you 400$ or so. So I can see how someone would charge a high price for an engineered costume even if it was quite plain. I can also understand people not wanting that service, especially if standard bras will fit and flatter you.