Thread: can't. bite. tongue, any. longer.

Preface: I am NOT trying to be a hater. A little bit of a whiner...maybe. But a hater no. I know we're supposed to self-censor to avoid conflicts with our beloved vendors & fellow bhuzzers but I have to vent.

I really dislike visting the bellydance store. The costumes are lovely, service is great, and I've never had a bad experience. I will continue to shop there. I am fed up with seeing page after page the same size 0 model in bad wigs and stripper shoes. I know kitty reads the forum & its not a dis against her. She's adorable, fit, and is clearly enjoying herself.
I hate any catalog that shows the same model ad naseum. Kitty is adorable. Th problem is, most of us don't look like her. We're maturing & have varying figures, body shaped and sizes. The majority of the costumes don't fit the models and the ill fitting wigs and stripper shoes juts make everything look like I"m shopping at an emporium for transvestite hookers.
What is wrong with showcasing a variety of models, young, medium, and mature with varying types of bodies. Honestly half the costumes look terrible because the model is lost in it and looks like she's about to tangled up in her plastic wedgie platforms.
What up with that? Take a cue from audrena and showcase real dancers in your costumes.
Does this pneomenon bother anyone else?
Satin Worhsip, you'd be a great alternative--tiny, petite and smokin hot like Kitty but also a great dancer
Surida: fuller figured and fabulous
even a body like Jillina's wich is fit, toned but also rounder and maturing...
Again, I'm not trying to dis. Petite, slender women are gorgeous too. I jsut don;t want to wade through 842 costumes that look like someone is being paid to play dress up in them.
Don't FLAME me please, just help me understand what the motivation/beneift to this approach is.,f::

I hear ya!

Sometimes when I see a costume that is only in a D cup size and the hips are an upper 40, I am like did they pin it back?

I did see the gold costume members were swooning over the seems to be sold out (check the bellydance store thread) she had a paper clip on the back of her hip??? I know that when models model that they pin things to make them look nice on the body, but that was just funny.

Anyhow the models on the bellydance store are beautiful, but if a costume is for a petite, curvy, or full figured it would be nice to see on the body. Even though someone is petite or full-figured doesn't mean they all have the same body shape. My body is pear shaped and there is no way that I can tell if a costume will look nice on my body if the model is not shaped the same.

But, most of the costumes the bellydance store makes has straight across belts and my body type looks better with the "v" or yolk shaped belt. That is another gripe of mine.

But, hey! That is why I tend to make my own costumes or if I can help it buy everything separate.

Nayastrance, I think you've got a great idea! You too, bdaddiction. I like to see all types of real bodies, not the mannequins either.

Yes, it would be nice to see a variety of models. They actually have a selection of costumes for dancers over a size 12. Having a plus-size model would make it easier for them to sell those costumes.

Even Dahlal has a larger model for their full-figure department.

LOL and I actually want to see somebody even SMALLER than Kitty. You never see BD models with an AA or A cup, or a straight up-and-down figure with boyish little hips.

But that's a different rant....I totally understand your frustration with the fact that BD costumes only seem to be modeled by women with that perfect slim hourglass figure. Many of us really just don't look that way, whether we're thinner, fatter, firmer, fluffier, top-heavier, or more pear-shaped. Viva la difference!

And yes, while I understand the benefit of showing costumes on a real body, and while I appreciate the fact that BDStore (unlike Dahlal) actually offers a wide spectrum of sizes in-stock - I also think it's quite goofy looking when they put a wayyyyyy too big bra on petite Kitty, or have her wear those lame-O stripper shoes, or obviously pin 8" of the costume in the back.

Understandably, the mainstream fashion world does quite a bit of pinning and tucking and PhotoShopping to get its catalogue models to fit their clothes, but there's a difference between taking a pair of J. Crew khakis to the tailor and getting alterations done on a jewel-encrusted skirt that's 8" too big.

I love how Audrena displays her costumes, too.

Skank factor of the platform shoes aside, I would rather see the clothes modeled on a mannequin anyway. I hate buying clothes I can't wash, and a lot of two-piece costumes may as well be underwear. Under normal circumstances, you don't wear anything under a costume bra, and if the skirt has built-in boy shorts or a thong, then, well...ick. Even if the model has big ol' granny panties sticking out of the top of the skirt, I still don't want to be wearing something that was nudging up against her Fruit of the Looms. Then again, that's just me, and I feel that way about all vendors, not just the Bellydance Store.

I do agree with the OP's thoughts, though. Why would a legitimate vendor want to model high-end costumes like a Spearmint Rhino fashion show? Doesn't belly dancing have enough negative baggage as it is?

Dahlal may have some larger-than-Kitty models, but that doesn't necessarily mean the costumes fit them any better. Kitty may have to pin inches of fabric behind her hips, but I know for a fact sometimes Dahlal models have modeled costumes that would actually be far too small for them by leaving the skirt unzipped and standing with the chest in such a way that you can't see she's about to fall out of it. :-) So really, it goes all/both ways.

Admittedly, when the cups etc. are just soooooo big that it looks weirdly out of proportion on either the model or the manequin, it's distracting and would be more helpful to see it on a body that was a little more proportional (would be better for selling the costume). Also...Samira and Damiena have both are pictured as well--not just Kitty (they're both fairly small as well, but not ultra petite.)

I guess I'm not so bothered by this. I mean...on one hand, yes I prefer the aesthetic Audrena or Dahlal have, but...Bellydance store has many, many costumes flowing through and they seem to do the photography themselves (which likely saves costs and lower cost is probably part of what allows them to keep their prices a little lower than some of the other sites/vendors), and likewise, they're probably using whomever is willing and convenient. It looks less professional, but so long as the service, the costumes are good, and I can get the info I need to make a decision, I can live with that for a lower price. I'll admit, I don't care for the "stripper shoes," but I also get that they're probably trying to make the lines look better on a short model/show more of the skirt, and that may require big shoes.

It would be helpful if they posted the model's measurements with the pic. I have a problem of a lot of bras that are the correct volume that could be twice as wide as me! (The magic Sahar's look like that to me . . .). To know the vague ribcage size of the model would help.

i hear ya. i think it's great that they have different models up there now as opposed to poor kitty and samira having to do it all themselves (which i'm sure isn't horrible at all! i'm just saying, that's a lot of costumes!!) but i'm tired of the wigs. that's probably my only pet peeve. just get rid of the wigs...i can even do the stripper shoes cuz i'm not even paying attention to the feet 90% of the time.

and i understand having to put those huge paper clip things or w/e cuz it would be really rare that a bra would fit right out of the box for anyone and they gotta take pics of it soo...what other solution is there? ya can't move the hooks...

and nothing against shorter women, but i would love to see models that don't need the stripper shoes to begin with for skirts that are longer...38" or more. i'm not even 5'9" but my butt takes up 2 or 3 inches of length alone so it irks me a bit when i see the models have an extra 5" of skirt dragging on the floor even with these platform shoes. and i know i'm not the only tall dancer here lol

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I do agree with the OP's thoughts, though. Why would a legitimate vendor want to model high-end costumes like a Spearmint Rhino fashion show? Doesn't belly dancing have enough negative baggage as it is?

It's not exactly a dealbreaker for me, but whenever I show a coveted costume or something I bought from the BD Store to any of my non-dancer friends or my boyfriend, they always comment on the pole-ready accessories. Plus, I could imagine eager-beaver (huh-huh, beaver) students possibly thinking it's OK to gig in 6" Lucite platforms, because a reputable BD website displays them.

Perhaps, I nitpick too much on image stuff. But as I always say, if you have a choice between being clear and leaving room for confusion....

Originally Posted by zfejzic

and nothing against shorter women, but i would love to see models that don't need the stripper shoes to begin with for skirts that are longer...38" or more. i'm not even 5'9" but my butt takes up 2 or 3 inches of length alone so it irks me a bit when i see the models have an extra 5" of skirt dragging on the floor even with these platform shoes. and i know i'm not the only tall dancer here lol

No, believe me, I am short and this irks me as well.

My tailor and I are becoming best friends. No stripper shoes for me. .w.:

oh but i do have to add that i like how they give shots of the front and back (for the most part). no crazy angles or whatnot. that helps a LOT :) i know dahlal doe this too but u can't click to zoom in on the main pic which is usually the front :-/

eta: i like kitty's make up as well :)
wouldn't it be easier and less stuff on the site to instead of relisting the same item 10 times b/c it is in diff. sizes, to have an option to choose ur size and have the picture show up only once? does that make sense? or would this require a whole new type of software program or whatnot cuz some of these pages are just multiples (specially in the bra and belt dept.) that take up pages and pages..

I have to agree that I love Audrena's site and seeing dancers modeling the costumes and looking absolutely stunning!

Shahrzad does try to bring in variety when she can. From what I understand it is a time issue, which turns into a financial issue.
Tiphrodysia is a lovely DD, curvy and taller then me (I'm 5'5").
That's her natural hair
Belly Dance Store.com: gallery

She doesn't always have much time.

This pretty girl and her sisters/cousins are taller as well
Belly Dance Store.com: your account

Now that Kitty's hair is growing, she wears her own hair. She hasn't worn the wigs in over two months worth of photos. She was the ONLY one who wore the wigs (besides the mannequins):
These are all Kitty's real hair. She plays with angles, bangs and color all the time.
Belly Dance Store.com: your account

Belly Dance Store.com: gallery

Belly Dance Store.com: gallery

Belly Dance Store.com: gallery

Belly Dance Store.com: gallery

Belly Dance Store.com: gallery

She's a sweetie...and that is her real hair.

There is also the consideration that a fuller figure won't fit into as many costumes. Whereas someone smaller will be able to accommodate more costumes. I'm fairly small, but realistically I can't model some costumes that Kitty can because I've got Thighs (yes, that was a capital T). The more "size variety" a dancer HAS, the fewer costumes she'll be able to fit into and model. A large part of it is simply practicality.
For those who want size reference - Kitty wears a 32B and is 5'2".
I'm a 34B, usually. Occasionally a smaller 34C. My upper hip is 33". I'm 5'5", but long torso- so skirts are ALWAYS too long on me.
Typhrodisia didn't need the heels as much. ..g.: but again, her time is limited.
As for "mature" dancers... I'm 41 with 2 children. I think I qualify. In the past I know she's sent out flyers with beautiful photos of Mia Naja- who is curvy and also "not in her 20s" anymore.
They can't change the size/hooks/length for the pictures. The clips and platform shoes are the alternative with who they have modeling.

I agree that it would be ideal to have more variety. Shahrzad has tried other models and sometimes it doesn't work out. There are lovely, lovely girls who sometimes don't photograph as well or find that the job is too tiring. It's also financially smart to have local girls model. Kitty lives nearby and "knows the drill" as far as what Shahrzad wants, which gives her a really high "usable photo" ratio.

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Plus, I could imagine eager-beaver (huh-huh, beaver) students possibly thinking it's OK to gig in 6" Lucite platforms, because a reputable BD website displays them.

that is a very valid point. i've been to many festivals and haflas where beginning students bought their 1st bedlah from ebay, etc and wear the belt backwards, as it was shown on the ebay listing mannequin *facepalm*
(of course a more experienced dancer will usually try to quietly tell them their clothes are on backwards) but telling a novice not to wear stripper shoes may be more sticky :p

I've been wondering the same thing about posting model's measurements... Thanks for the info, Samira. Do you know Kitty's hip size? That is a big curiousity of mine. There is a certain costume I see modeled, that I actually returned because I didn't know any human beings (including an 8 yr old I know) that could fit it...certainly wasn't going on me!

samira, i knew that was her real hair in the pics u showed. i was talking about the ones where she was obviously wearing a wig, usually in studio shots. which i'm assuming now are older shots but they get 'bumped' back to the top whenever i visit the site and with over 70 pages of costuming it's hard to keep track of what's new and old.

I like seeing the costumes on models vs. mannequins. There's something about seeing a costume on a warm body that makes it seem much more real. I don't mind that someone else has tried on or worn the costume I'm buying. I buy from the swap meet and those are worn costumes. And I've bought costumes at festivals, where I'm positive I wasn't the only person there who tried it on.

The shoes are just shoes, and most of the time they are covered by the skirt.

I would love to see more of a variety of sizes on the site, but I would also love to see more of a variety of sizes in magazines, on tv, in the movies and elsewhere.

Also I'm jealous of Kitty's hair, if I could have funky colors and a crazy cut I would do it in a second!!

When I have danced Lebanese style, I have worn stripper shoes, bike shorts and leg openings up to the belt. . .

Kitties wigs did frustrate me. Because it felt a bit like the wig was competing with costume and I wanted to see the costume. Well coiffed hair, make up etc are part of the package.

{{{HUGS}}}

I understand the need for high heels since it would be silly to alter a skirts length just for a photo shoot, but couldn't she use something that looks more like a ballroom shoe rather than a lucite shoe that automatically makes one think "stripper"?

There is also the consideration that a fuller figure won't fit into as many costumes. Whereas someone smaller will be able to accommodate more costumes. I'm fairly small, but realistically I can't model some costumes that Kitty can because I've got Thighs (yes, that was a capital T). The more "size variety" a dancer HAS, the fewer costumes she'll be able to fit into and model. A large part of it is simply practicality.
.[/QUOTE]

Okay but my point is that Kitty does NOT fit into a majority of the costumes she's wearing. The bras are huge, the skirts puddle up on the floor ever in high heels, there gaps and sags all over the costumes.
She winds up looking gangly and ackward, not attractive. I certainly think a mid-sized figure, someone bewteen a size 8-12 could model several of the costumes quite well. You do fill the costumes out better and have a gorgeous, fit & toned body. For every 30 pictures of Kitty, there is 1 of you.
Again, its not a Kitty slam. She was born into this adorable, trim, petite figure & that's great. I'm just sick of seeing 842 costumes models by a little pixie and not a wider variety of figures.

Okay and what's this about: I'm fairly small, but realistically I can't model some costumes that Kitty can because I've got Thighs (yes, that was a capital T).
Um....raise your hands ladies if you too have "Thighs". Who's telling you you can't model the costumes because you have fuller thighs? If only slender, fatless, curveless models can model the costumes, are we to deduce that only slender dancers should really buy & wear these costumes? I think this is my biggest problem. There is the manifest reason for using kitty: she's convenient, cute, and doesn't complain about the long hours. Then there's the latent meaning of this issue: apparently *somebody* believes the costumes look best on fashion-model type bodies and doesn't want fuller models because their big thighs and looser tummies don't look right on the costumes.
I don't mean any disrespect. Like I said my business transactions with bellydancestore have all been positive & I continue to enjoy visiting the site. The lack of variety in body shapes and sizes in inexcusable. Dahlal isn't much better. Their dancer.models are more curvaceuos but not a whole lot of muffin top there either.
IMO the only site who really hits the target in terms of attratctive, variety sized 'real women' models if audrena.

It is FANTASTIC that Sharhzad takes the time and energy to have every costume photographed. Little Egypt doesn't. Dahlal and Audrena *might* have the costume in stock in the size you want, but you might have to order it and you still don't know you will get the right size. After a while, I could look at Kitty and gauge how something might fit me.

I don't care who wears them as long as they have breasts and hips.

Originally Posted by nayastrance

... For every 30 pictures of Kitty, there is 1 of you.
Again, its not a Kitty slam. She was born into this adorable, trim, petite figure & that's great. I'm just sick of seeing 842 costumes models by a little pixie and not a wider variety of figures.

It's not coming across as a Kitty slam at all. She is a beautiful girl. She has the time of an art student. I have considerably less time available to be over there in full makeup.

Originally Posted by nayastrance

Okay and what's this about: I'm fairly small, but realistically I can't model some costumes that Kitty can because I've got Thighs (yes, that was a capital T).
Um....raise your hands ladies if you too have "Thighs". Who's telling you you can't model the costumes because you have fuller thighs?

No one tells me. I don't think I was clear in what I said though. If something is too constrictive around my thighs I'm not wearing it in front of the camera because I find it to be unflattering. I'm not a fan of "muffin top" OR it's equivalent for the thigh in shorts (is there a NAME for that). If I can't pull a skirt up over my booty I CAN'T model it.

...and there ARE ball-room style heels and other heels there at the store. For short girls whose curves don't take up extra length, a platform is needed because a regular heel doesn't give enough height.
...and I'm just trying to answer questions/concerns. I see the points being made. I support and believe in variety. :)

Originally Posted by joanneraks

I've been wondering the same thing about posting model's measurements... Thanks for the info, Samira. Do you know Kitty's hip size? That is a big curiousity of mine. There is a certain costume I see modeled, that I actually returned because I didn't know any human beings (including an 8 yr old I know) that could fit it...certainly wasn't going on me!

Remember it can be confusing because bigger costumes get clipped. So don't just go by the costume picture.
Kitty's hips...I THINK are around 30 0r 31?

Originally Posted by zfejzic

samira, i knew that was her real hair in the pics u showed. i was talking about the ones where she was obviously wearing a wig, usually in studio shots. which i'm assuming now are older shots but they get 'bumped' back to the top whenever i visit the site and with over 70 pages of costuming it's hard to keep track of what's new and old.

Yes. It CAN be overwhelming! When a costume listing is modified in anyway (measurement added, new description added, pic changed, price reduced for sale etc) it is bumped to the front page. That's why this happens. In addition when a duplicate costume comes in they'll use the older picture as it saves a lot of time. They're not doing it to mess with anyone, it's simply how the website functions with updates and modifications.

The other big problem is that a lot of the new trends out of Egypt just look horrible on normal sized people. What's with the bras where the boobs are so far apart that they look like they belong to two different bodies!
I hate trying to imagine what they'd look like on an average build.

The new bras are getting quite freakish, if you ask me. Too many pasties and fishing lines, plus the Dina cut doesn't seem to look good unless you're a firm, perky C cup - or at least a full B. (Not to mention, I know many girls who wear a D or bigger, who feel like they fall out of those bras).

I miss the old-school demi bras that made everyone look good.

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

...and there ARE ball-room style heels and other heels there at the store. For short girls whose curves don't take up extra length, a platform is needed because a regular heel doesn't give enough height.

Well then, what about something like this: Paris Hilton Shoes, Paris Hilton Platform Shoes, Paris Hilton Stiletto Heels, Paris Hilton Sandals, 5 1/2" Inch Heels It's still a platform, but not the clear kind. I think it looks much classier. Granted, they are pretty pricey, but I'm sure there has to be something similar, but less expensive.

In life, there's something for everyone.

Dahlal uses a variety of models and professional photography. The results are stunning, worthy of the expensive couture being showcased.

But you have to wait an eternity sometimes to see anything new on the site, because coordinating those shoots takes time.

Bellydancestore does a quickie job, and adds new stuff to the site every day.

For me, it's all good. I'm addicted to looking at pics of sparklies. I love them to be fully glam, but I also love to see new ones often. Great mix.

From a business standpoint, there's probably not much motivation to invest more time/money in the photography, or complicate it by adding more models to the schedule, since the costumes often sell as fast as they get put up!

I think the site is a hundred times improved over where it was a couple of years ago. (remember when it was just page after page of 'next' and not indexed? Remember when the accessories dangled on a wire next to a mannequin?) It's so much easier to navigate and order now. And I love that I can search by cup size!

Originally Posted by Lauren_

And I love that I can search by cup size!

yes, that's a crucial element to retaining my interest on a site ..l;,

I agree that it is nice to see variety, especially if the costume itself calls for that, but realistically I see the point that a business would use who is available to model. And to me, its already a vast improvement on a person vs. a mannequin. They fit so differently. And as someone pointed out earlier about it being like underwear...I just don't think you can avoid that unless you order directly from the designer. People will most likely try on the costume before you buy it anyway. Also, for me, Kitty is somewhat close to my measurements (though I have a bigger bust), so it works out. It seems like most of the Dahlal models are not:( plus...I get frustrated that most of Dahlal's bra and belts come around 38" to 40" (which can end up looking wonky on me)....it seems like bellydance store has everything! Although...most the costumes I want seem to be a or b cup. sigh. just my luck.