Thread: pricing and sizism

I just noticed that the Belly Dance Store sells double-D Pharonics Great Loops for $50 more than other cup sizes (even Ds). This makes me so mad. I HATE pricing based on size-ism. I hate it.

Yeah, it's a lot more work to make a #6 cup than a #5 cup...Yeah right, that's BS. Sure maybe you could compare the amount of materials it takes to make a #2 with a #7 cup and there would be a difference in time and materials...however, I do not think it justifies a $50 price increase.

I LOVE the Belly Dance Store, and thankfully, I haven't noticed this with other products. If they start doing it more, I will stop shopping there.

,m::

Other parties guilty of pricing sizism:
Victoria's Secret

Not that I'm justifying it.. its totally unfair, but I'm thinking that they don't "think" they have as much of a market for larger cup sizes, so they jack the price up..

However, I'm sure that if Victorias Secret made industrial strength bras for super big boobs, tons of ladies would flock there!

Yeah, that's a good point. The thing is the mark-up on all these items (especially bras from VS) is so high that it's about being greedy...They already make enough profit by selling them for so much money...why make bigger ladies pay more. Don't make no sense, no sense at all.

I think they are trying to adjust the profit margin for the length of time it ties up their capital. They just sell slower...fewer large sized dancers that can justify the expense if they are not pro or semi pro. Hell, I just wish they would get a clue bag that the dresses may be the thing that would sell to a plus sized dancer!

In general, the cost for larger sizes is because there is less demand for them coupled with a higher cost of materials and labor.

For example, if a costumer buys undecorated bra cups in bulk for smaller sizes, but only a few for larger sizes, those cups will cost more. If it take "x" about of time to bead over 6" by 6" cups, it will take "x + y" to bead over 7" by 8" cups. So you have the added cup cost, plus the added decor cost, plus the added beading/sewing time cost. As it goes through the manufacturing process, these tiny additions to the price add up.

As a fellow DD girl, I feel you - it sucks to have to pay more for larger sizes. After having made costumes from super-tiny to super-plus for my dance friends, I can definitely vouch for the larger costumes costing me both more money and more time to create.

If you know of any costumers without a plus surcharge, please list them! I'd love to have something like that on hand. So far, all of my custom costumes have had the "DD or above" charge.

Another part of the equation is where to draw the line in cost effectiveness. If you are used to custom ordering, this is not unusual. It is only recently that most lingerie bras were readily available in stores in D's let alone DD's. And when you had to order them from the store, the price included a surcharge.

But if you check it out, there are other pieces which suffer the same fate. Brides Maids dresses are infamous for this! Nothing like adding insult to injury there! ;-)

{{{HUGS}}}

I think it's also punishment money for us trashy tacky women who have more than a mouthful. We're all pornstars and we all have implants, you know.

T-shirt pricing is the same way. Go online to order a Red Sox tshirt, or whatever, and you'll pay more for XXL and up. I honestly don't think its an "ism" in this case. It takes more materials to produce a larger product. More material costs more money. It costs more money to carpet a larger house, or paint a bigger room, or color longer hair. As others have pointed out specialty sizes sell less frequently and are therefore more costly to keep in stock.

Do they similarly charge more for really small sizes that sell less frequently and are more costly to keep in stock? Because if not, then it comes down entirely to a very small amount of extra fabric. I see plenty of costumes with large belts and skirts that don't cost any different. It's just the bra size that seems to be the issue.

Reason why I make my own clothing.

I seen that too. Audrena and Dahlal sells it, but not sure what the price difference would be. They have more color selections as well.

Just for reference, in clothing, most manufactures use the following rule for their production (based on 10. Multiply out as you will):

1 - xs
2 - sm
4 - med
2 - lrg
1 - xl

Sometimes, depending on the market, they will do 3 med and 3 lrg. Many don't go over a large / 12 - 14 because of the cost to adjust the designs and recast the cutting frames. Plus there are too many variations in body type when you start getting above a 14 / 16. (I have several friends who are 20's and complain loudly that they can never find anything with a waist. Because the designers don;t seem to believe that larger women have waists!) Remember that Prete a porte is made for what is considered the "average" woman and unless you fit that description. . .

Oh, and I don't know if this is true anymore, but O believe that last time I heard, the average bra size was a US 36C. At least according to Maiden Form. . .

{{{HUGS}}}

I do think there is less variety in the smaller bodies. With an #1 cup, you generally see a smallish ribcage and small to medium hips. When it comes to a big cup, you could be talking about a chubby girl with big ribcage and hips, a size 4 girl with implants, an hourglass girl with small ribs and big hips, a wedgeshaped girl with a large chest and small hips.

That said, it would be nice if all the non standard costumes were a little marked up rather than just big bras a lot. I know with lingerie bras, the GG+ styles are different that DD-G, which are again different to A-D. Prices reflect that. But iff the DD is not a more supportive style, just a bigger version of the D cup. it makes more sense to make the D cup +20 and the DD +30 instead of the DD +50.

You know, I have ALWAYS hated sizeist pricing on clothes. I hate it. In the kind of ridiculous bulk most places are making/buying fabric, the prices they pay are so low that they'd need to be making a TENT rather than a T-shirt to actually have it costing more. <sigh> I'm talking high street clothing shops here rather than bellydance costumes.

There's on plus-size shop in the UK that used to drive me BERSERK with their pricing - they were purely a plus-size shop, but their clothes were soooo expensive. They clearly felt they had you over a barrell... unless you wanted to buy a hideous billowy muu-muu from a "normal" shops limited plus size range, then you HAD to buy there. And since you HAD to buy there, you simply HAD to pay whatever they fel they could get away with charging. Bah.

What bugs me about bellydance costuming plus-size surcharges is... the costumer (in my experience) doesn't charge more for a big size. It's the person selling on who charges the extra. If you don't think it'll sell, don't buy it for your store - don't buy one, and then charge extra for it because it might be lying around a while. ,m::

Marks & Spencer said today it would stop charging more for larger bras after more than 14,000 consumers joined a Facebook group calling for an end to its differential pricing.

Unlike most retailers, M&S charged £2 more for bras with a cup size above DD – a cost described by the Facebook group Busts 4 Justice as a "tit-tax".

The company defended its position saying the charge reflected the extra cost of producing a bra for larger bust sizes, and that other specialist lingerie retailers charged £60 or more for larger cups.

However, it has now backed down and today took out full-page adverts in the press to tell consumers that from tomorrow, all bras will cost the same. Under the headline "We boobed" the adverts say: "We were wrong, so as of Saturday 9th May the storm in a D cup is over."

The chain is also offering 25% off all bras for two weeks.

The Busts 4 Justice group was set up last summer by Beckie Williams, a 26-year-old writer from Brighton who was fed up of paying extra for her 30G bras. Williams called the policy "ridiculous" and bought a £3.40 share in M&S so she could put her case in person.

By today her Facebook group had attracted 14,246 members. In a message on its homepage she told them: "We are really happy to say that, thanks to the members of Busts 4 Justice, M&S have decided to abolish the tit-tax, and from now on will be operating a one-price-fits-all policy across their ranges.

"We would like to thank everyone who has supported us on this issue; especially the thousands of brilliant, busty women that have joined forces with us. We couldn't have done this without you."


From the UK newspaper "The Guardian" So M&S got on the right side of us DD+ gals and guess what ..you feel kindly disposed towards those who make such a decision.
So protest..tell people what you think, tell them you will buy from those who do not discriminate.
I had a custom made dress from Eman Zaki through Faridadance and I paid no more than any one else . I was bigger than I am now and sold the dress on but I was treated no differently than the perfect size 10 girls despite those extra few inches of lycra and scattering of gems

Originally Posted by nayastrance

T-shirt pricing is the same way. Go online to order a Red Sox tshirt, or whatever, and you'll pay more for XXL and up. I honestly don't think its an "ism" in this case. It takes more materials to produce a larger product. More material costs more money. It costs more money to carpet a larger house, or paint a bigger room, or color longer hair. As others have pointed out specialty sizes sell less frequently and are therefore more costly to keep in stock.

The mark-up (aka profit margin) is so high on these products that the extra time/materials would be negligible at best. For example does it really cost $10 more to make a 38D than a 38C. I doubt it I highly doubt it.

I mean could see how it would be more expensive for mom and pop operations and/or costumers to some extent...but most of our clothes are made in foreign factories for pennies.

Oh and actually I just looked at VS online and it looks like they've done away with their sizist pricing.

I know I know it's horrible. But if you are covering a bra completely with sequins and beads then yes it does take more time. I am not opposed to a plus sized surcharge for custom work. But that better include the belt too.
What burns me is that you can't even shop in the mall except at the fat store if you are bigger than a 12. And 12 isn't that big!!!!
I'll never forget the horrible experience of going to the mall with my mom looking for wedding stuff. We had to go into every store and ask ahead of time what size they went up to. It was upsetting and made me boycott retail stores since then. In this economic crisis these establishments need to wake up and design a larger range of sizes. Imagine all the money they could make!

no I don't see any excuse for this at all. No use saying its more expensive to do bigger sizes- it evens out amongst the spectrum and bottom line-do they want to sell to people or not-if so make stuff that fits.

Originally Posted by eshtabellydance

I know I know it's horrible. But if you are covering a bra completely with sequins and beads then yes it does take more time. I am not opposed to a plus sized surcharge for custom work. But that better include the belt too.
What burns me is that you can't even shop in the mall except at the fat store if you are bigger than a 12. And 12 isn't that big!!!!
I'll never forget the horrible experience of going to the mall with my mom looking for wedding stuff. We had to go into every store and ask ahead of time what size they went up to. It was upsetting and made me boycott retail stores since then. In this economic crisis these establishments need to wake up and design a larger range of sizes. Imagine all the money they could make!

Now you know why you are making my wedding dress! ..l;, Thanks so much for being you!!!

Hey, you'll be lucky if Pharonics will even make you the larger bra. Four months ago, I decided to custom order a Great Loop. Now I am plus sized with ridiculous boobs (44H) But he order was sent to them with all appropriate measurements and they accepted the order. The bra they sent was a 38dd with longer straps. Make nice earmuffs but it wouldn't even fit on the girls. So the company I ordered it through returned it. Another two months later they decided they couldn't make it.

If they didn't want to make costumes for fat girls, why didn't they just say so up front so nobdy's time was wasted?

Another thing that really annoys me is paying $10 more per garment for regular clothes. I order a lot of my work stuff from JJill catalog and every single item is $10 more except tee shirts which are $6 more.

A lot of these people who say they don't stock larger sizes or don't sell larger sizes might find if they did stock a few and let us know about it, they might make some pretty good sales. On the big cabaret bra issue, I can't tell you how many times I've heard the same story.

Well, on another note. If I make a shirt for myself and my mother. My mom only requires 2 yards of fabric while I require 3 yards. More fabric more money.

I don't buy into the more fabric more money idea either. Because these companies buy wholesale. I buy wholesale. Fabric is cheap if that's your business. But I do understand having to spend more hours covering the extra inches with sequins/beads. And if you are sewing big crystals on a bra you will need extra and that can add up. But the designer needs to think about that ahead of time and price accordingly. Any of my costumes are going to be the same price regardless of the cup size. Because I price according to a larger world view. But if someone comes along with an A cup and I have left over materials because of it I will either roll those over into the next one or make an extra accessory or something.
What burns me is that I wear a size 12 dress, size 16 pants and a size L t-shirt and I can't shop at a majority of stores because they only go up to 10 or 12. That is lame! Thank god for old navy. Best place for pants!

I didn't think of that Estha I don't buy wholesale, because I don't have a business. Good points!!! ..g.:

Originally Posted by catwomyn

Another thing that really annoys me is paying $10 more per garment for regular clothes. I order a lot of my work stuff from JJill catalog and every single item is $10 more except tee shirts which are $6 more.

OMG! JJill is guilty of this? Darn. I heart JJill. Now I have to boycott them. Totally sucks.

Originally Posted by andalee-oriental

OMG! JJill is guilty of this? Darn. I heart JJill. Now I have to boycott them. Totally sucks.

Well, at least they make the larger size stuff. It's very hard to be 50-something and fat. Clothes companies seem to make either stuff aimed at the under 25's which look silly on a woman my age or stuff that's so frumpy they should be embarrased to sell it.,m::

Originally Posted by wigglewhiz

What bugs me about bellydance costuming plus-size surcharges is... the costumer (in my experience) doesn't charge more for a big size. It's the person selling on who charges the extra.

This completely depends on the costumer. I have one who charges me extra and one who does not. I try to buy as many large items as I can because they sell really quickly, so I don't quibble about charging me more for a larger size. I would prefer to have it in stock than not purchase it.

ETA: I do agree that there are people who do it because they can, and it burns my butt. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

I just want to know why my last custom order couldn't have saved time & sequins actually making the back strap smaller (as in to the measurements I sent them) to make up for the extra beading on the front, or deducted the price of the bra they required me to send since they couldn't figure out what a size F was on their own. If it hadn't been for a troupe costume requiring everyone's to be the same.....c::
Being in retail, tho not costuming, I know there are a lot of reasons for charging an extra mark up for various items- if it's slow moving, it gets marked up basically for shelf rent- sometimes there is a manufacturer mark up that larger companies are able to just eat but small shops have to make up somewhere. Consider that just being in the business & getting these things made is a risk, & that too has to be compensated. I am not saying it is always fair or even reasonable, I am just urging folks not to jump to conclusions about the moral fiber of a vendor without knowing what's going on behind the scenes. I'd also like to point out that we retailers really are human, & most of us do listen to our clients- a front counter clerk or minion of a large corporation may not have much leeway in making exceptions to policy, but sometimes an owner/manager will- or at least be able to give you a very good reason why not!

I hate having to pay extra for a plain bra, but on the other hand my bras are better made & last longer than when I could fit the cheaper ones. & I can also vouch that yes, some stores do charge more for the petite sizes that don't move as fast too- can't find a pair of slacks that fit me for less than $80, tho my sis can buy the same pair for $60.

Originally Posted by catwomyn

Well, at least they make the larger size stuff. It's very hard to be 50-something and fat. Clothes companies seem to make either stuff aimed at the under 25's which look silly on a woman my age or stuff that's so frumpy they should be embarrased to sell it.,m::

Or, in my mother's case petite and young. She wears a size Small. I was lucky in Arizona I was able to buy her so many clothes in her size suited for her age, since I worked in a city where the median age was around 50.

I hear you on the frumpy part. I try on things and I am not a box, I am a coke bottle. Most of my weight is in my top and bottom. I am 32 and I don't like dressing like I am in my 20's anymore.

this idea that larger costumes are on the shelf for longer is just not right-there are so few of them if they are nice they are snapped up. If they are are one of those terrible costumes with bra cups like two large dinner plates-then they are on the shelf and rightly so.

Originally Posted by bdaddiction

Or, in my mother's case petite and young. She wears a size Small. I was lucky in Arizona I was able to buy her so many clothes in her size suited for her age, since I worked in a city where the median age was around 50.

I hear you on the frumpy part. I try on things and I am not a box, I am a coke bottle. Most of my weight is in my top and bottom. I am 32 and I don't like dressing like I am in my 20's anymore.

I like the term Coke bottle. Better than hour glass.... i always say that the sands in my hourglass are definitely shifting as time goes by. :)

I hate bra shopping. My 17 year old inherited my size and hates shopping for bras now too. It's so hard to find a comfortable bra over a "c" cup. She can't even shop in the junior section of stores anymore and she's only a size 8.
It's annoying.

After spending five million hours trying to find convertible tights, wrap skirts, and leotards for plus size. I am flabbergasted! None of my XL fits me, on the bottom so I need some new everything. I was hoping they would fit by now, but my bottom half is doing a hang ten. I was browsing and noticed that some items are 50% or more just because you wear over an XL.

Not to mention I have to order from two different stores since not one offers everything I need. So that is double the shipping.

It isn't like my local dance stores carry Plus size either. ,m::

Danskin finally decided to make convertible tights which is great, but for the added price of course.