Thread: Indigo Henna etc..

Hi guys,

not to hijack the blonde hair turning gray thread below.

I will repost my issue here:

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dinavienna's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Austria
Posts: 886

Re: Any blondes here? Need advice on hair dyeing...
Ana I have to jump in to say you are beautiful, and your hair colour definitely is!
I've never dyed, but fear the day I'll have to. I shyed away from chemicals until now, I am on the opposite end of the spectrum though. always had hair as black that the hairdressers kept asking whether it was dyed.
Hm my "sin" was wanting CURLS rather than waves. I did permanent curls 3 years ago. Against the hairdresser's advice who told me they would not last in my hair (too heavy), and it would damage them. Hm I had to at least try that Shakira look :)
Well I'll not do chemicals again. My hair turned brownish within a few months. I have the impression it did not grow out as dark as it was. And it is less full IMO. A pharmacist told me it is possible the colour is changed permanently through the chemicals. I don't know how.. it was only once, and after all it should grow out.. right?
Well everything's grown out, and I am black again, but I have the impression not as black as I used to be :)

that scares me off regarding dye even more.. but well my experiment was just useless (and no, the curls did not stay longer than a few hours after washing :) I loved rain though :) ) and if you have grey hair our colour's fading anyway.
oh the reason for the lightening up was the permanent curling chemicals contain hydro peroxide.. so I doubt dying is as little damaging since that is exactly the chemical used for lightening up and it did not do my hair that good. On the other hand, you are so light haired that you will most likely not need to lighten up but dye slightly darker I guess. Going with dark blonde from Garnier nutrisse etc might be the better option. or one coming very close to your natural one. I think the most aggressive always is going lighter, not darker.

On another note. Henna, indigo etc. so many people recommend them. DO they really NOT damage the hair? I have such trouble believing that. They're natural, ok. But many ingredients in other hair coloration are natural too. Most colours come from plants. Any experiences to share?"


Now what I am particularly interested in:
I've had everybody tell me permanent curling or hair dying does no bad if it is just once. No risk.

Now I know Henna and Indigo is not chemical - yet I want to hear as many diverse stories as possible before considering it. I want to know if it REALLY does not do damage to my natural hair colour.
I'd hate if after a certain amount of uses I'd find my hair lightened up and I'd HAVE To use indigo to keep it dark.

Sounds a bit paranoid I know but I just want to keep MY colour. Hence why the blonde thread brought up this question in me. Ana also just wants to keep her colour, basically.

Now another question for you ladies who ve tried Henna and/or Indigo.
My hair colour is Mediterranean black, not the Chinese/Asian type of black with almost blueish shine. So it will look black in most light, but in some sunlight it might have a slight chestnut rather than blueish shine to it. Like most Mideasterners and Latin people with black hair as I noticed (I started paying attention only when my hair unwantedly turned brownish altogether).

Now will Indigo make my hair look black or blue-black?
What does Henna effect in black hair? A red shine? And what on black hair if it turns grey, to know for the future :)

Thanks ladies
Please please share your henna indigo experiences!!! I really need some advice!

THANK YOU!!!!

Any sort of colour or perm will grow out. The only way for it to change is as you age. I had chesnut coloured hair, I began to notice the red tones began to fade to grey which made my overall hair colour look darker. I now have lots of grey....

The only way I could get that back would be out of a bottle which I can't do because I'm allergic to the PPD in hair dyes.

If you just use indigo on grey/white hair it will look like you had a blue rinse. To get the indigo to 'take' you have to use henna first. The henna allows the indigo to penetrate.

Think of it as a two stage process like perming solution then neutraliser.

Whether you get brown black / black / blue-black will depend on your hair, the length of time you leave the henna / indigo on your hair, how resistant or porous your hair is AND the crop of herbs you use. Phew!

I've been using them for years and I don't see that it's damaged my hair.

Henna is permanent - it's incredibly difficult and damaging to *remove* henna from your hair, it really needs to be grown out. Once you grow it out you'll be back to normal of course.

Henna on black hair will add a reddish/orange shine in sunlight. Indoors it won't be too visible, though it may add a barely perceptible warmer cast to your hair.

Indigo is a blue dye. It is not permanent like henna and does not "stick" to the hair too well when used on its own. Most people seeking to achieve black hair using herbal dyes will use a combination of henna and indigo - there are a few different approaches. Again, check out hennaforhair.com. You can achieve black with henna + indigo, and I have noticed a blue cast to the hair of some people who use henna + indigo. The colour you wind up with (and how long it lasts - indigo is not as long lasting as henna) depends on the quality of the herbs, the way you've mixed them, the length of application, and - most importantly - the hair colour you started with.

Henna on grey hair is ORANGE. Bright, bright orange. Indigo would of course tone down the effect on grey. The only difficulty could be that indigo fades, whereas henna really doesn't. I know some people (over on the Long Hair Community - that's where I went when I was first experimenting with henna) who find that the orange can start peeping through on grey hairs as indigo fades.

Hope that helped a little!

Simul-posted with StraightLeftKnee, who pretty much said everything I did. Whoops!

hey guys, and thanks!!

I think for now I will not start experimenting with henna and indigo.. no one but me thinks my hair is lighter than 3 years ago, and even I think it looks as black most of the time :)
So once they turn grey - hopefully a long long time from now, I guess it will be difficult to get a black colour with these natural products.. taking into consideration the indigo will fade.. hmm I guess one can only experiment when the time has come.
Thanks a lot ladies!!

So no unpleasant experience with hair colour not going back to what it was before the treatment (after it s grown out)?

I've been dyeing my hair way to much during my late teens and now it's kinda messed up so I commend your effort to find a "not so bad" way of dyeing your hair. I have no great answer to your question but just wanted to say that organic and less chemical based dyes are making their way to the salons and if you wait some years they might have more alternatives to dyes that are less harmful to both the environment and yourself.

Thanks for sharing Gisela.. I should have quite a few years (am 27 now), and my Mom and Grandma remained black to their late fifties.. hopefully for me it will start in quite a few years from now only, the graying, and until then you are right they hopefully have become better with more organic/natural ways of dyeing!

henna isn't permanent!! I've been using it for years!

my henna eventually fades out too- but I'm a natural strawberry blonde and only dye it a shade or two darker during the winter because otherwise it goes dishwater blonde for a few months. I think it depends partly on what you mix with the henna when you set it & how porous your hair is naturally. Henna should be treated as a permanent dye until you know how your hair reacts.

great resource for investigating henna, indigo & cassia:
The Henna Page - The most complete henna information resource!
and I get my supplies from their sister page at
Mehandi.com shop - Henna, Indigo and Harquus .... body art and hair care supplies that are hard to find!

they also have a gallery so you can see what different mixes of henna & indigo do on different starting shades of hair, as well as what different additives (coffee, chamomile, yogurt, etc) do the the color.

natural grey or white as we age is also caused by a build up of peroxide in the hair follicle, and anything using peroxide has the potential of bleaching out your hair either temporarily or permanently. henna does not use peroxide (unless *you* choose to use a peroxide product to lighten your hair first- which some of my friends do)

If anything, my hair is much healthier when I use henna- thicker, stronger, healthier- I need a lot less conditioner when I use henna or cassia. If I am faithful to doing a cassia treatment once a month, I don't use conditioner at all.

You do want to test the henna before you use it because different types of henna, even crops from different years, may have a different shade. Definitely get the high quality or 'wedding' henna- I like the Jamila henna- I have seen some scary results from folks who just pick up 'this box I found in the health food/party store.' A good henna job will not necessarily *look* like a stereotypical orange henna job... it almost made me nauseous to get on a plane this summer behind 3 ladies with identical orange hair, knowing I could have done so much better for them with some quality herb...

Originally Posted by mlacombe

henna isn't permanent!! I've been using it for years!

Although it's true that some hair is particularly resistant to colouring, most people who use good quality, pure henna find that it *is* permanent, and that removing it (short of cutting it out or growing it out) is very difficult, if not impossible. Although it may fade a little (particularly if your hair is porous or damaged), most people find that the red colour is there to stay. Yes, there are some lucky exceptions, but it's best to assume when you start henna'ing that it will be permanent, and only proceed if you're comfortable with that idea.

Thanks a lot Lara..
as to temporary or permanent bleaching through peroxide: Do you mean permanent in the sense of you'll have to grow it out or your hair colour will always be lighter, even the "new" hair growing out?

I am slightly freaking over not being AS dark as before. Well everybody assures me I'm black, so I guess I'm just over attentive to it. I think that's the curse of people who've never felt like altering their colour, and then either accidentally or through aging find themselves in that position..
So I wonder if it is possible that one treatment altered my colour. How could it? Would it affect the roots so badly?

Originally Posted by Nat242

Although it's true that some hair is particularly resistant to colouring, most people who use good quality, pure henna find that it *is* permanent, and that removing it (short of cutting it out or growing it out) is very difficult, if not impossible. Although it may fade a little (particularly if your hair is porous or damaged), most people find that the red colour is there to stay. Yes, there are some lucky exceptions, but it's best to assume when you start henna'ing that it will be permanent, and only proceed if you're comfortable with that idea.

Yes, that is my experience. I use only 100% pure body art quality henna and it does not budge once it is on. Of course, there is the oxidation process. Immediately after application it will glow brilliant orange for a couple of days, then settle down to a nice auburn.

Alot of people who think they use henna are using a product that is in fact not pure henna. Pure henna will have one ingredient listed: 100% Lawsonia inermis (henna) leaves.

It sounds like you've already decided not to go the henna/indigo route at the moment but I thought I'd chime in anyway. I've been using henna and indigo for years and it really is perfectly healthy for your hair. Henna makes your hair soooo soft and shiny! It's really a treat!

On black hair, the henna will give it a reddish shine. I always do henna first, rinse it out, and then do the indigo. I've never tried straight indigo, but apparently if you do that without a "base coat" you won't get a very good color. My natural hair color is medium brown (uhhh... I think?) and I get a true black to blue-black dye out of the indigo. I do notice that the indigo fades faster than the henna, and it will turn more of a chestnut color by the time I dye it again.

I've also been bad, and at a very busy, stressful time got a pro dye over my henna. It was fine, my hair didn't fall out or anything. You should know, though, that hairstylists can be misinformed or biased against henna and give you smack about it! You probably won't be able to get your hair to lighten after it's been hennaed though, so your stylist will be right on that count!

Hi Omchantress,

thanks for the info. I am thinking I leave my hair a bit alone at this point, the colour seems to be the better the better it's moisturized.
Funny because I really NEVER had to do anything with my hair previously, but well that's the way it is.
Still, I will keep the henna/indigo option in mind when I'm either in for a change or am not satisfied with the colour..
Whether one gets a nice black out of henna/indigo seems to be a bit of a gamble with hair type and mix?
Do you care to share your mixing? Since I've never used it I would not know what is the standard amount for long length hair... and how long you leave both in? and how long will the black stay in until it gets more chestnut like? thanks:)

My hair is not exactly Mediterranean black but more like Mediterranean brown or espresso, as I call it. I haven't used either henna or indigo but I have used a semi-permanent or demi-permanent color to hide the gray and I like it because it doesn't turn red or have any ammonia. It also helps to thicken the hair. I've been using it for years and have no complaints. I've mostly used Basic Instincts by Clairol and I only touch up my whole head once a year! (However, the grays are a different story ..l;,)

Originally Posted by dinavienna

And what on black hair if it turns grey, to know for the future :)

If you are mediterranean with black hair, you will likely be blessed with silver hair, not mere "grey", when you get a little older, and you probably have the perfect coloring to look stunning with salt and pepper or silver hair.

Once you start coloring grey hair, you either have to keep doing it or grow it out with an obvious demarkation line, or chop it short if you change your mind and want the silver look.

I love silver hair. I have a few, and I part them out and keep the henna off of them when I henna. Unfortunately, they are not nearly as sparkly and dramatic on people with blond, light brown or red hair.

Emmylou with silver hair:

Hello everyone. I was thinking about trying henna on my light brown hair. I usually avoid coloring because my hair is long, and I don't want to have to maintain it and continually do my root's. I was wondering if henna will fade out gracefully instead of leaving a line that I'll have to live with for years, or do you know anything that will fade out well?

Originally Posted by ssipes

If you are mediterranean with black hair, you will likely be blessed with silver hair, not mere "grey", when you get a little older, and you probably have the perfect coloring to look stunning with salt and pepper or silver hair.

Once you start coloring grey hair, you either have to keep doing it or grow it out with an obvious demarkation line, or chop it short if you change your mind and want the silver look.

I love silver hair. I have a few, and I part them out and keep the henna off of them when I henna. Unfortunately, they are not nearly as sparkly and dramatic on people with blond, light brown or red hair.

Especially people who have that heavy silver hair that lays nice on the head and doesn't corkscrew around instead! ..l;,

Oh my Grandma had silver hair!!
My Mom still has so few in her late 50s that she can hide them from us by plucking them immediately. :) (prays to have her genes...)

Hmm I just hope I got some time and maybe if it s a classy silver I might forget about the dyeing hassle :)

Originally Posted by dinavienna

Hi Omchantress,
Whether one gets a nice black out of henna/indigo seems to be a bit of a gamble with hair type and mix?
Do you care to share your mixing? Since I've never used it I would not know what is the standard amount for long length hair... and how long you leave both in? and how long will the black stay in until it gets more chestnut like? thanks:)

It can be really confusing looking at hennaforhair.com and seeing a ton of different mixes and how-tos. I've tried mixing all sorts of things with my henna paste and have come to the conclusion that it it comes out pretty much the same no matter what I add. So, I now keep it simple!

I just mix my henna with warm water and a squirt of one of the "terps" from mehandi.com. It's supposed to darken the stain, but it also smells good, so I use it. I cover it with saran wrap and let it sit until it turns dark (a couple hours). I mud up my hair and then cover my head with a saran wrap turban, and leave it in as long as I can stand it (3-4 hours, usually). I rinse it out, then mix up my indigo with cool water and a teaspoon of salt. That takes about 10 minutes for the dye to release, then I put it on my damp head and cover again for an hour before rinsing out.

Usually, the indigo keeps it black for about a month before it starts to fade.

I hope that helps!

regarding peroxide- many people use peroxide & peroxide products to lighten hair with no problems for hair growing in after the treatment, but sometimes it does permanently alter the hair color, & I found this NPR news story regarding peroxide in the follicles being a possible source for greying interesting in that regards:
Getting To The Root Of Why Hair Turns Gray : NPR

Originally Posted by ssipes

Yes, that is my experience. I use only 100% pure body art quality henna and it does not budge once it is on. Of course, there is the oxidation process. Immediately after application it will glow brilliant orange for a couple of days, then settle down to a nice auburn.

Alot of people who think they use henna are using a product that is in fact not pure henna. Pure henna will have one ingredient listed: 100% Lawsonia inermis (henna) leaves.

For most folks, this is true, but again, depending on your own hair's condition and how you prepare even the best henna, for some folks it really will fade. I use 100% pure baq henna of the freshest crop available and it will still fade for me over time- which I don't mind, just want to be up front & let folks know that YMMV.

Hi, Dinavienna, I dye my hair with indigo and henna. My natural color is similar to yours but I have a gray streak near my part that runs from the front to the top of my head (think of a skunk). I've been dyeing my hair for 20 years to cover the gray, the last 6 months with henna and indigo. I love it! my hair is very healthy and shiny. It does not fade out or become brittle. However, I had to experiment for a long time to get the color right and there are still some odd spots that need to grow out. Overall though, I am so happy with the results. I had become allergic to ppd and concerned with the health risks of traditional dye, and I am so glad that I don't use dye anymore.

Here are some pictures I took a few weeks ago to send in to the hair henna site. I went back added more indigo to tone down some of the orange-red on the top. I do it as a 2 step process, first 1 henna and then the next day, I do a henna and indigo mixture. If it's still too red, I tone it down with just indigo.
henna pictures by rainowens - Photobucket

I buy my henna from my local Ziba
Ziba Beauty
and the indigo from an Indian grocery store. The henna and indigo from henna for hair is good quality also.

I mix my henna with tea tree oil, warm water, and apple cider vinegar in a large ziplock bag and then I set it on my patio over a white paper towel for about 4 hours or until there's faint red/orange stain on the towel. I leave it on my hair about 3 hours. I mix the indigo with warm water and a little salt and let it sit until a blueish film forms on top, about 15 minutes. I leave it on 1.5 hours. Indigo works better when it's a little runny.

I have been really happy with it, even it's a little messy and time consuming. Yay henna!!

Hi Reina!


Thank you so much for sharing!

THe pictures are of great help!

On that 3rd picture of yours, the colour comes very close to my natural colour. May I ask - what is the difference in these 5 pics? The amount of indigo you used? Or the lighting on the same coloration?

If I were to use it in the future (hopefully not too soon :) ) I would prefer my hair to be black in all kinds of lights.. but of course if the Henna causes it to to be somewhat reddish in some lighting, I guess I'll live with that rather than with grey hair. or accept grey hair. if it's silvery like was suggested here I might find it classy :)
I need to find my Grandma's pics, I remember her hair was exactly like that!

Thank you so very very much for sharing, it helps so much to know the experience of someone with similar "departing" colour.

So may I ask some more, had you been happy with the coloration result of traditional/"chemical" dye? Has that damaged your hair visibly?
How was the result of the black compared to henna/indigo? Would you say you gave up on some color result for healthier hair with the natural alternative?
Now that I got hold on you - maybe you can give me your entire "recipe"? Only if you dont mind and if it s not too much of a hassle ..l;,

Originally Posted by reina

Hi, Dinavienna, I dye my hair with indigo and henna. My natural color is similar to yours but I have a gray streak near my part that runs from the front to the top of my head (think of a skunk). I've been dyeing my hair for 20 years to cover the gray, the last 6 months with henna and indigo. I love it! my hair is very healthy and shiny. It does not fade out or become brittle. However, I had to experiment for a long time to get the color right and there are still some odd spots that need to grow out. Overall though, I am so happy with the results. I had become allergic to ppd and concerned with the health risks of traditional dye, and I am so glad that I don't use dye anymore.

Here are some pictures I took a few weeks ago to send in to the hair henna site. I went back added more indigo to tone down some of the orange-red on the top. I do it as a 2 step process, first 1 henna and then the next day, I do a henna and indigo mixture. If it's still too red, I tone it down with just indigo.
henna pictures by rainowens - Photobucket

I buy my henna from my local Ziba
Ziba Beauty
and the indigo from an Indian grocery store. The henna and indigo from henna for hair is good quality also.

I mix my henna with tea tree oil, warm water, and apple cider vinegar in a large ziplock bag and then I set it on my patio over a white paper towel for about 4 hours or until there's faint red/orange stain on the towel. I leave it on my hair about 3 hours. I mix the indigo with warm water and a little salt and let it sit until a blueish film forms on top, about 15 minutes. I leave it on 1.5 hours. Indigo works better when it's a little runny.

I have been really happy with it, even it's a little messy and time consuming. Yay henna!!

Yup. I do pretty much the same, however I can do a rush job in leaving the henna on for just an hour before rinsing then covering with indigo. Great thing about the henna is it can be mixed, activated and then frozen.

My greys can be a little resistant & I sometimes need to do the indigo part twice.

I think people assume it's fading when in actual fact it's just the white roots growing through

In hairdressing school, they taught us that black doesn't exist: what most ppl think as black is actually very dark brown, even ethnic hair. As such, dark haircolors have a red base (paler colors have a yellow or copper base).

Peroxyde will lift the hair color and reveal the base underneath after the toner washes off a bit, which is why there are such things as blue shampoos -to temporarily cancel the brassy undertones of blonde hair. (Mind you, just the hair shaft exposed to the air, sunlight, ageing, etc... lightens a bit due to the natural oxydation process)

Your hair may change in texture/color due to health issues, diet, overall state of well being, but an external chemical will not affect the hair that has yet to grow. If it did, the hair color would have to be labeled as a medication and administered only in a doc's office *g*. Also coloring the hair shaft ie what is out of the hair follicule, will not affect the hair that will grow later as that part of the hair is "dead" ( no blood running through it).

I've had a good friend/client once who wanted blonde highlights on her straight medium brown hair. Some time later, she came back to me with curly blonde hair, claiming that the chemicals had permanently affected her hair and she wanted a refund. I refunded her but recommended that she went to see a doctor (after explaining the above to her). She did, and she came back later to give me back the cash: the doctor had told her she was pregnant (and she didn't know)...

Re henna: as far as I know, it is a vegetable wax. As such, it shouldn't damage the hair, but if you try to get a chemical process such as perm or conventional hair color done on henna'd hair, you risk the oxydation of the henna turning green (in color, it looks a lot like the green on oxydized copper). ANd that is near impossible ot remove as the stuff that would remove the wax is no good for the hair and bc it's vegetable based, it doesn't respond in a predictable manner to conventional bleaches. If you're going to stick with henna, by all means, go for it. If you select a color that is close to your natural color, the growth will not be so visible (same as with conventional color), but any drastic changes and it will show. Like for regular haircolor, henna is only applied to the dead part of the hair, it shouldn't affect future growth.

The least damaging "color" I've found is plant rinses. Chamomille for blond, sage for red (yes, the liquid will be green but the highlights will be a gorgeous copper) and black tea (like English Breakfast) for dark hair. Mix with a bit of vinegar to close the cuticles of the hair shaft (conditioner and fixative). Those don't last, though.

HTH,

Kem

Hi, I'm glad the pictures are helpful. They were taken on the same day in different light after I had hennaed and then applied a henna indigo mixture. I then went back and dabbed indigo were the results were lighter or too red to even out the color. Now the "highlights" are a little more subtle than they appear in the pictures.

I'm doing my hair again today or tomorrow. I'll measure the ingredients this time, usually I just eyeball, and I'll post the recipe in a day or two.

Originally Posted by kemintiri

In hairdressing school, they taught us that black doesn't exist: what most ppl think as black is actually very dark brown, ...

Peroxyde will lift the hair color and reveal the base underneath after the toner washes off a bit, which is why there are such things as blue shampoos -to temporarily cancel the brassy undertones of blonde hair. (Mind you, just the hair shaft exposed to the air, sunlight, ageing, etc... lightens a bit due to the natural oxydation process)

Your hair may change in texture/color due to health issues, diet, overall state of well being, but an external chemical will not affect the hair that has yet to grow. If it did, the hair color would have to be labeled as a medication and administered only in a doc's office *g*.


Kem

Hi Kem,

thanks so much for your answer!
I actually believe my hair has not been permanently lightened, I just pay attention to it on every picture and in every mirror :)
What you say on black ethnic hair is true - I now observe every black haired friend and TV celebs to see their hair too in some light gets a brownish or reddish shimmer ,r:;
I guess I just did not notice before..

What I noticed was in my despair over my permanent curl-damaged hair I put lots of hair masks etc and instead of making it better some of them lightened it (citric acid, wheat, beer ingredients I noticed above all).
I subsequently stayed away from chemical masks and did my own with stuff like avocados and whipped cream, and discovered a pharmacy only line called Phyto that is said to be on herbal basis with no chemicals added.
These things did well, but they did not undo the discoloration of the chemically treated hair. After a few months in some (neon or natural sun) light one could see a HUGE difference of black hair top to the ear, and brownish locks below :)

I guess it is safe to say for me the permanent curl or the curl combined with chemicals in the hair treatment products I applied in good faith definitely lightened my hair. As for what's growing out - I guess I pay too much attention now.

Thanks for the positive confirmation of such external chemicals not altering the hair structure or colour for good! (Hmm it was only one pharmacist who told me so anyway.. and I'd had difficulty imagining how that was possible from the start..).

Originally Posted by reina

Hi, I'm glad the pictures are helpful. They were taken on the same day in different light after I had hennaed and then applied a henna indigo mixture. I then went back and dabbed indigo were the results were lighter or too red to even out the color. Now the "highlights" are a little more subtle than they appear in the pictures.

I'm doing my hair again today or tomorrow. I'll measure the ingredients this time, usually I just eyeball, and I'll post the recipe in a day or two.

SO nice of you, thank you!!!