Thread: Tribal gals: Request for input from Costume Goddess

This book sounds like it is going to be good. I have used your site for other costuming tips as well. Thanks for making another.

Originally Posted by ozma

I second contacting Tempest for information and background on gothic bellydance fashions(although she'll argue it's more of an offshoot of cabaret than tribal) and the rise of steampunk influences on costuming.

And I also second contacting Sharon "Shay" Moore, co-founder of Seattle's InFusion, for a good discussion of Tribal costuming needs and trends
Welcome to the new Mandala Tribal Website! | Mandala Tribal Bellydance - Shay Moore - Seattle

I'm corresponding with Tempest (she's VERY chatty) and will be adding some of her pictures.

I'm corresponding with Sharon also, Infusion will be in the book.

Working creatively with jewelry parts is part of my thrift shop book, and for the Tribal book I will have many examples of jewelry parts being put to use as headpiece ornaments and pendants for bras and belts.

Originally Posted by TribalDancer

Thanks for the props, folks!

Dina, I know we are somewhat in touch already on this project, but thought I would pop in here.

As you have already addressed a bit, it can be very hard to find out where the line is drawn between tribal and simply fusion. Looking at the list, "goth", "steampunk", "circus", and "heavy metal"...none of these are necessarily tribal specific. In fact, I know more general fusion slanted dancers who do heavy metal and goth than tribal. And in circus and steampunk I see a pretty even split. Maybe your focus on the tribal book should be more limited in scope, focusing on ATS, ITS, and related offshoots (which may encompass some overlap, but with this book focusing in its use in tribal dancing); and then with the rest you have fodder for a second book entirely about general bellydance fusion styles?

I've thought about this a lot. In this book...if the dancers have a troupe dynamic, a history in bellydance, and are impressive in their costuming (obviously NOT sparkly cabaret style), I will include them, if at all possible.

I understand your wish to keep ATS costuming distinctive, with its own book. But I'll make it clear which ones are not ATS. Perhaps the book will have a new name: "Tribal and Then Some" - something like that.

As for a second book just on fusion costume, honestly...don't scare me like that!! .w.:

I've published seven of these, plus a second edition with new material on all but one. It's a huge amount of work.

Writing text maxes out my brain - and then I type with two fingers! Sewing and re-sewing prototypes, fitting, modeling pieces, researching, tons of emails, photo shoots, retouching, original illustrations, and page layout - all very time-consuming.

I think after this beautiful biggie I am done! I'd be quite happy to pass the torch. Anyone?

Originally Posted by dinalydia

As for a second book just on fusion costume, honestly...don't scare me like that!! .w.:

LOL! Come on! I don't remember anything scaring you! Really!

Originally Posted by dinalydia

I think after this beautiful biggie I am done! I'd be quite happy to pass the torch. Anyone?

Ozma! You or me? Anyone else?

Dina, we love you! And even though I have a degree in Theatre and spend a great deal of time in a costume show both designing and constructing costumes
(Shakespearean fairies as punk rockers! Rep will never be the same!), I have learned a great deal from your books. I for one, salute you!

{{{HUGS}}}

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

Ozma! You or me? Anyone else?

Dina, we love you! And even though I have a degree in Theatre and spend a great deal of time in a costume show both designing and constructing costumes
(Shakespearean fairies as punk rockers! Rep will never be the same!), I have learned a great deal from your books. I for one, salute you!

{{{HUGS}}}

You take that torch and flame on.

Seriously, when Dina is finished I'd have a hard time knowing what else needs to be adressed. Dina, Davina, and others have covered so much territory. There's a wealth of costuming books and on-line resources right now. Or where one would get the time.

I'm going through 5 years of writings right now for various reasons and wouldn't dream of taking on more writing tasks. I've got enough to work with. For costumes I'll just continue my near-daily on-line updates, brief descriptions of why and how, and answering questions on my costume fan page.

Originally Posted by dinalydia

The new book will have examples of current trends:

• Retro "circus" or burlesque (not sure what to call this)

Please dont include burlesque. We already havetoo many problems withdancers mixing bellydance and burlesque creating problems forthose aiming to do family-freindly gigs. Dont need a bookencouraging more of itthan there already is.

Im not a burlesque hater I just dont wanna see it mixed withbellydance. Keep it out of a bellydance oriented book please.

If you want to makemoney onthe burlesque market write a completely separate book on burlesque that doesnt have bellydacne in the tilte and isnt promoted next toyour bellydance books.

Agreed. Circus, okay. But try not to use burlesque in the book, in name or otherwise.

Originally Posted by mysterywoman

Please dont include burlesque. We already havetoo many problems withdancers mixing bellydance and burlesque creating problems forthose aiming to do family-freindly gigs. Dont need a bookencouraging more of itthan there already is.

Im not a burlesque hater I just dont wanna see it mixed withbellydance. Keep it out of a bellydance oriented book please.

If you want to make money on the burlesque market write a completely separate book on burlesque that doesnt have bellydacne in the tilte and isnt promoted next to your bellydance books.

I think you misunderstood - cause I agree with you, that bellydance and what's called "burlesque" these days (adult theater) should not be overlapping.

I meant burlesque in the old-fashioned 19th century sense, more like vaudeville theater, showmanship mixed with comedy and wit. It's a fringe style surely, but no nudity. Might be more clothing than usual, considering the shoes, stockings, gloves, etc.

I wouldn't even use the word burlesque in my book, because of the current connotation.

*whew* Yes, I think the term "vaudeville" will be the better choice of term in this case! Though you and I know burlesque referred to things other than stripping, today it has different connotations and it would be sticky to use that term, methinks!

I'm bumping this up so more can participate. I'm hard at work on this monster of a book. Did a photo shoot with Twilight troupe this week.

I think you might be amused to see this picture of me with one of the models who is wearing the troupe's "shaman" costume (each one is unique). I'm the one wearing shoes. ..l;,

Dinalydia it's great to see you back :)

Originally Posted by jesennia

Dinalydia it's great to see you back :)

Thank you Jessenia!

Got a question here:
Someone has mentioned Bollywood influence. Talk to me about that. I do have several Indian-inspired costumes and headpieces pictured in my book (plus of course bindi and mendhi). But they are more like Orissi dance (if that is the right term) - slim pants with a short skirt or panels on top, sari borders.

Nalini, a Seattle Bollywood instructor, and her student troupe are pictured here:

but I'm sure they would never describe themselves as Tribal.

Do you know any tribal dancers who do something like this look?

Here's the tricky bit, Dina. You are writing a book about tribal. yet what you seem to be writing about is just general fusion.

I think you need to define for yourself what "tribal" means before you can narrow down what styles will fit into it. As a tribal dancer since way back, a lot of what you seem to be defining as tribal wouldn't fit inot my definition, so it is really really hard to advise you as to what would fit in your book. :/

Originally Posted by TribalDancer

Here's the tricky bit, Dina. You are writing a book about tribal. yet what you seem to be writing about is just general fusion.

I think you need to define for yourself what "tribal" means before you can narrow down what styles will fit into it...

Thanks Sharon,
Yes, it is tricky, I have thought about this a lot.

My book is, in the end, about costuming and not about ATS dance style or music choices. I want the book to be of great use to Tribal troupes although not every example is a strictly Tribal dancer.

As I said, I will make it clear which troupes are established role models of ATS in their area.

I include troupes that do have an ATS background but have experimented further. And include some dancers that do solo acts that are not ATS, but many Tribal dancers look to them as inspiration for costuming. Like Sharon Kihara, Tempest, Mardi Love, Ansuya.

About syles:
A number of years ago, I heard Tribal dancers at Medfest mentioning how difficult it was to do the full turban wrap in a dim, crowded dressing room on a 90-degree day, how hot and uncomfortable the dark turban was. About a hundred wrote to me they wanted the backless choli with gussets, but it was very difficult to fit; should they or shouldn't they wear a bra; it looked unflattering without one, yet the bra showing in the back looked awful too...

I asked: why do you have to wear them, then? Well, they felt without those pieces it doesn't look Tribal, and they want to be part of the Tribe.

Somebody, somewhere, must've been the first to decide yes, it IS Tribal even without a black turban, a backless choli and a 20 yard skirt...Tribal even wearing bellbottom stretch pants, even wearing ruffles, which so many now do.

I'm not into setting rules, so I show the most options and inspirations I can and let the reader decide. The most appealing looks will be adopted; a few will innovate and others will copy and, presto, a new Tribal trend.

I decided to mention Bollywood only briefly, on my 2 pages about East Indian influences in costume.