Thread: The new costumes and their prices

Now I am old and in fact antique according to some of the costumes for sale posts here. But some of these costumes you all pay over 600.00 or so for are bare of any real decoration and barely worth the fabric used. I only say this cuz I in my day a costume needed to have glass beads and extras for it to cost that much. Some of the cossies I have seen for sale here have NOTHING but fabric and a "name".
Nothing against the name brand costumers but plastic beads and just a skirt with some stones and beads and a bra that has no stabilizing side straps just an over beaded standard bra strap is not only unstable on stage in "REAL belly dance" but a blaspheme in my book. Please explain to me how this is worth 600.00.
To me this is just commercializing something that really does take an expert to produce. Some of the Ebay sellers from china are doin the same and to me this is just a rip off.
Sorry Just had to vent
Andrea

Amen sista! I want bling for my bang!

Yeah, me too

Well if you are speaking of Sahar Okasa's and the ilk there is more to them than fabric and a name. The skirts drape beautifully -- it took talent and effort to come up with the designs that drape, ruche, and tuck just so. Costumes are more than the cost of their components, or even the labor to make them -- I think designers deserve to be paid for their creations. Plus the bras tend to be waaayyy more flattering than most glass bead-covered costumes, certainly far superior in fit and flattery than even high end Egyptian costumes were 10 years ago (or whenever the good old days were....). They may not work for every figure type, but I have seen many figure types they look very good on.

Plus the aesthetic of modern Egyptian dance as done today, with the subtle nuaned movements, don't call for the walls-o-fringe of yesteryear. There is something to be said for the more minimalist costumes highlighting the *dance*.

They may not be your thing, but I hardly see how its fair to call them crap.

Also, mimimalism isn't a new thing. Samia Gamal's costumes were often creations of ruched chiffon without any part being covered with glass beads and fringe.

I like fringe, bling, ablas, old school stuff - nothing subtle, but everyone has different tastes.

Originally Posted by ssipes

...far superior in fit and flattery than even high end Egyptian costumes were 10 years ago (or whenever the good old days were....). They may not work for every figure type, but I have seen many figure types they look very good on.

They may not be your thing, but I hardly see how its fair to call them crap.

Maybe if you're < a c cup.

Yeah, calling them crap is a tiny bit harsh, but for 600+ bucks I would rather have the beads sewn on then crap glued on.

I don't own a Sahar because I don't like them, although some dancers look lovely in them. Ditto for Ablas. My personal style is somewhere in the middle. But, from the experience of personally buying the raw materials for my last two costumes, I know that materials--even the seemingly simple stuff--add up fast. Once you take into account labor and artistry, I understand why costs are so high. I don't like it, but I get it.

I have read Baadrobot's post twice and I don't see anywhere that she called anything "crap".

I like alot of styles of costumes but I would never pay $600 + for something that isn't blinged up. But that's me. I also don't care for big cut outs and lots of bare or lots of nude mesh in spots that I have to wonder if the dancer is wearing undies or not. Again, that's my opinion. I don't see how that compliments or highlights the dance. IMO it's one more reason for someone to get the wrong idea.

Obviously I don't know exactly which costumes Andrea was referring to. Perhaps the cheap knock-offs of the designers are cheap and poorly made.

But a Sahar bra is not an overbeaded regular bra. There is a long thread here on bhuz in which one was deconstructed and reverse-engineered, and from that I saw that they are different, unique from anything that came before it, and work magic on bosoms that are small to medium sized. Perhaps it's not very suitable for larger cup sizes but again...doesn't make them unstable NOTHING or blasphemous.

Also, I just bought an Eman that is farily minimalist. The bra is probably the best-fitting, most flattering costume bra I've ever owned, tied with Pharaonics great loop style, but *way* more comfortable. It is completely stable for dancing in.

the skirt is just a cleverly ruched and pleated half circle that wraps, with a few drapes of beads, it feels like I"m wearing air, but damn, I have no butt and it makes me look like I have a butt, and it flows and moves like a dream when I dance.

On the other hand, I've learned that tons of glass-beaded fringe is not my friend. Traditional Turkish costumes with the V belt and 12" fringe look ridiculous on me, as do those 80's and 90's era Egyptian jobs with the 6" fringe all around the belt and bra. This is not to say that these costumes don't look really nice on some people (mostly tall, long-torsoed people). To each her own.

Also, mimimalism isn't a new thing. Samia Gamal's costumes were often creations of ruched chiffon without any part being covered with glass beads and fringe.

^^ This is a very fair point.

I am more of a bling girl myself, generally speaking, but really I think it has to come down to what is right for you and for your wallet.

My only concern with some of the more modern costumes and their price tags is the gluing of bling, as opposed to sewing and the use of some synthetic fabrics that have a short life span, especially when exposed to sweat and temperature change. I do think that with some of the more traditional techniques and designs there can be more scope for repairs and cleaning. And the embroideress in me does slightly revolt at the idea of glueing everything into place. But that's just me.

As I say, its horses for courses.

as someone who makes them I can tell you right off the bat that $600 is a fair price if it's done well. And plenty of great costumes from egypt are actually underpriced because of the cheap labor they are able to sell them for practically nothing. I bought 2 noussas a bedlah and 2 dresses custom designed in egypt for under $1000. Ridiculous! We should be thankful. When I have to buy $100 or more in supplies and then hours and hours of work it really adds up. You are lucky if you make a profit. And take a look at what regular clothing costs! You can easily spend $600 on a mid range outfit for the office if it's designer. I think costume prices are exceedingly reasonable.
The problem isn't the price I think but coming up with it all at once. I get so much business from dancers who want to make payments. Some of us have an addiction you know!

Cost versus costume.

When we design and sew our own costumes we make it one time (hopefully) and avoid the cost of labor and over head. We also take the risk of not completing the project because life or lost enthusiasm occuring.

Couture designers may sew a garment several times before it fits & moves correctly. The risk of design fit increases with the increase of each clothing size. It's the cut, the fabric, their time & over head invested with the trust of label name.

Would I pay $600 for a non decorated costume? No. But that's based on income and personal preferences of costume styles.

I think every dancer should try to make a totally beaded costume themselves and then we can talk about price. I guarantee you will be so frustrated and gladly hand over $600

Originally Posted by eshtabellydance

I think every dancer should try to make a totally beaded costume themselves and then we can talk about price. I guarantee you will be so frustrated and gladly hand over $600

Bingo!

I've tried and thrown in the towel every time. Even $800 for a Bella seems completely reasonable...

Originally Posted by eshtabellydance

I think every dancer should try to make a totally beaded costume themselves and then we can talk about price. I guarantee you will be so frustrated and gladly hand over $600

But in fairness the OP's point was that, while a beaded costume may be worth $600, a minimally-beaded costume isn't.

But to extrapolate your point, I think every dancer should try to turn a pile of lycra or chiffon into something that hangs like one of the modern Cairo designer costumes, and then we can talk about the worth of a designer's talent.

To be honest, I haven't personally care for many of the minimalist costumes and most of my costumes are more blingy, but they are growing on me, and for sure I can appreciate that they are more than the materials.

Originally Posted by ssipes

But in fairness the OP's point was that, while a beaded costume may be worth $600, a minimally-beaded costume isn't.

But to extrapolate your point, I think every dancer should try to turn a pile of lycra or chiffon into something that hangs like one of the modern Cairo designer costumes, and then we can talk about the worth of a designer's talent.

To be honest, I haven't personally care for many of the minimalist costumes and most of my costumes are more blingy, but they are growing on me, and for sure I can appreciate that they are more than the materials.

i tend to agree, i currently own 2 raqia hassan's, 2 emans, 2 ablas and a noussa, most of those i have sold are also emans, joharah's and a hekmet....the names are worth it cuz of how they're constructed and draped.....there are some knockoffs that are, while pretty, not as well made, cuz they don't have sartorial training, so don't know how to construct or drape properly.....i totally would pay $600 for a costume of fsuch construction, and have.......the bras on all the ones i own are well constructed and comfortable....jury still out on mamdouh, and i like sahars styling, but won't pay $1200 for a cossie, period

yes I think $1200 is too much. For example I charge between $300-400 for a minimally beaded costume. For something with more work I do not feel shy charging $600. But again layaway/installments make all the difference.

Originally Posted by EzmaSiddiqah

I like fringe, bling, ablas, old school stuff - nothing subtle, but everyone has different tastes.

I agree; am totally on a Vintage Pharaonics & MADAME ABLA, American 70's-80's Vintage Mania!!! :) I don't even care that I'm so vertically challenged that I tend to look like an oompa-loompa drowning in fringe--I love Sparklies! Bring it!!! :))

I've made a few costumes for myself and by example, this bedlah , I've put over 150hours. Started the belt from scratch with canvas, create the belt (folowing Shira's patterns tips ), sewing sequins one by one, fringing bead by bead... if I only count 5$ an hour (that is less than minimum wage), it comes up to 750$ and there ain't no material and driving around buying supplies and sketching in that price...


And in the same costume, my circular skirt, I bought for 45$ of fabric and paid my friend 40$ to hem around all 3 panels... no beading or counting the time it took me to measure and cut the fabric in circles...

So if you count all these, the costume you see here worth over 850$... but If I want to sell it who's gonna pay 350$ for it?

From now on, I buy second hand and don't mind paying 400$ for them, I don't buy new cuz I can't afforth them, but I know it is what it worth...

We could have the exact same discussion about designer ANYTHING - purses, shoes, even cars!

I definitely have a better appreciation for certain designers after seeing their costumes up close and trying them on. While certain styles may not flatter my body, I certainly appreciate innovative construction methods!

Designers take chances - not every costume/purse/dress is going to be a hit with everyone who sees it and some might end up going straight to the "what were they thinking?!?!!?" pile, but at least they are doing something NEW and aren't just making copies of other people's costumes or making the same thing over and over and over.

For those of you who know who Tim Gunn is (Project Runway), he recently said this in an interview:
"Q: Fashion-wise, what's the biggest waste of money?
A: These days, women don't spend a lot of money on anything. But I think it's the seduction of a handbag. If you don't spend a lot of money, you appear cheap, which I think is ridiculous. I frankly have serious difficulty understanding the appeal of really expensive (and by that I mean over $600) bags. Six hundred dollars is the bare minimum when it comes to those stratospheric bags. The Hermes culture of "Well it's made by 60 people in an attic in the countryside of France" — to be blunt, who cares? And all these matching pelts. Who fundamentally cares? It's a big slouchy hobo bag. It's not as though it's a tailored piece of luggage. I just don't understand it." here

In the end, to each her own and wear what makes you feel fabulous!

Let us talk shoes...$800 and up for Sex in The City MBs? You step in dog crap in those things for Gods sake! And make up... can we talk? Never under estimate the desperation of a 50 year old in front of a Needless Markup make up counter. How many of us have bought a 25 dollar tube of wax and pigment...ran out to the car and slapped it on cause we couldn't wait to get it home, looked in the review and went.."I am soooo stupid"? Tell me...what "guys products" are so overpriced that it should be considered highway robbery? Double forward somersault dismount offa my generic soap box.

Originally Posted by eshtabellydance

I bought 2 noussas a bedlah and 2 dresses custom designed in egypt for under $1000. Ridiculous! We should be thankful. When I have to buy $100 or more in supplies and then hours and hours of work it really adds up. You are lucky if you make a profit. And take a look at what regular clothing costs! You can easily spend $600 on a mid range outfit for the office if it's designer. I think costume prices are exceedingly reasonable.
The problem isn't the price I think but coming up with it all at once. I get so much business from dancers who want to make payments. Some of us have an addiction you know!

Yeah, Noussa's costumes are beautiful but she does not tie off the string ends. What you have is beads falling off and hanging by threads. I had to go through a Noussa and tie off ends because the ends were inter-woven into the fabric. That doesn't work if you are expecting the costume to last and be resold at a good price.

While I think the OP came off a little harsh in her critique, I think some of it depends on not just taste but on the market area you live in. I personally think the mini-skirt style costumes look like beach or club wear and don't say "belly dance" to me at all. BUT I've been living in Maine for the last decade, and we do not have a very fashion forward state--let alone a saturated market of super-chic belly dancers. Our audiences will expect a more traditional, blingy, fringy look and are primarily non-Arabic and not looking for the most up-to-date designer styles.
When I see a mini style costume, my first thought is "Eeew". Then I remember that aside from Bhuz and other networking, I just don't see dancers in my area wearing that style so it is unfamiliar to me & that unfamiliarity is probably fueling some of my dislike.
I felt the same when when skinny jeans starting showing up everywhere. Yuk. Who looks good in those? Guess who just bought her second pair of skinny jeans today?...

I think a mini skirt worn to belly dance in is like taking a tour of a sausage factory... who wants to see those kinda details - what with the knees and thighs and all working up a storm...I dont.

Originally Posted by EzmaSiddiqah

I like fringe, bling, ablas, old school stuff - nothing subtle, but everyone has different tastes.

We are bling sisters. I may be small but I like big and nothing subtle.

When I first started dancing, I had two low end Egyptian bedlahs and two vintage self mades. I then started making basically what we are seeing with Emans and Sahars. Appliques and swags of beads in between. Along with tassels. I'd spend more money on the skirts than on the beads and appliques.

Now, were they fabo? No. Did they work for what they were - student / intermediate costumes? Yes. did they have the quality of the Emans and Sahars? No. I will give both those designers props for their ability to drape a skirt. This is the same reason I love Armani suits for men. Armani knows how to drape a suit like no other. I happen to hate most of his women's lines because Armani can't seem to understand that women have curves!

The other issue when you are working with designers is the amount of time which goes into the actual design and basic construction. Getting the drape right, estimating the fabric usage, etc, takes time as well as talent.

Personally, I don't see any minimalistic costumes in my future unless I make them myself. And yes, I have spent time beading costumes, so I know what goes into them. But I don't foresee getting any couture clothing in the near future, either.

{{{HUGS}}}

you know there is always something. That's why if you find a designer who wears well and fits you right it's worth it to stick with them and order their stuff no matter what the price. Kinda like a good mechanic or a doctor you really like. So much can go wrong. I have heard that about noussas but I swear I never lost a single bead. But all kinds of stuff are falling off my pharonics, bella and others.

Originally Posted by jasani

Yeah, Noussa's costumes are beautiful but she does not tie off the string ends. What you have is beads falling off and hanging by threads. I had to go through a Noussa and tie off ends because the ends were inter-woven into the fabric. That doesn't work if you are expecting the costume to last and be resold at a good price.

Originally Posted by eshtabellydance

I think every dancer should try to make a totally beaded costume themselves and then we can talk about price. I guarantee you will be so frustrated and gladly hand over $600

I've done this 4 times, and I think I'd rather just buy the supplies and put it together myself. Then again, I don't dance professionally and I'd have a really hard time buying a costume that costs more than my rent. I really can appreciate the workmanship in handmade items, but I just can’t buy it if I think I can make it myself.

In an ideal world all my clothing would be tailored and all my shoes would be leather, but I can't justify spending what I'd have to spend. It's been many years since I've earned the kind of money that allows people to have $300 dresses (and that's not "high end" btw, that's upper mid-range). If I can't spend $300 on a dress or $400 on boots I can't possibly justify $1000 on a belly dancing costume, no matter HOW much I want it. It's frustrating - I am far from the greatest dancer in the world but I have students who own more expensive costumes than I do, and I'd LOVE to have a proper beaded lycra costume. As it is, stupid full skirts are back in before I ever got to have a skinny lycra costume.

I do rather crave a proper Eman skirt, if not the bra which I think would not work at my size. My friend, who has a small, shakeable bubble butt, bought an Eman in Sydney last year and her arse looks like JLo's. As a person with no arse, I would dearly love a costume that could give me an arse.