Thread: Holes in new veil- Normal? Return?--- Updated

Here's the deal..
My loving boyfriend gave me two new silk veils yesterday as a late Christmas exchange. After looking around here on bhuz I had picked out a well-known seller/colors I liked earlier in December (so he's been holding on the them since around the 20th but they weren't opened till yesterday). However when I opened them New Year's Eve I was horrified to find one of the veils (which was very beautiful!) was ripped and the other has small holes along the top. ..cr.:

Now I know the ripped veil will have to be returned. But what about the veil with holes? They are visible with a quick but close glance (the biggest being the size of two pen tips put together) spaced out rather evenly along the top. Are holes like those normal or am I being too critical? It just doesn't sit right that my first silk veil would start with holes in it...

Also, how do I go about returning/exchanging them? Returns aren't really discussed on the website and this Christmas present gone sour is awkward enough (he feels so bad as I've been so excited.) Am I expected to pay the shipping for the item exchange (which seems wrong!) or is it the seller's responsibility?

Thanks everyone.

--- Update: see new post

The small holes sound like the selvage edge and is normal for an unhemmed veil.

Thanks SandraDances, such a relief!

Now I'll be able to use these last few days of precious vacation to give it a try! So pretty.

The postage for the ripped veil 'should' be at the seller's expense, since the goods were damaged. IMO

Originally Posted by SandraDances

The small holes sound like the selvage edge and is normal for an unhemmed veil.

I concur with Dr. Sandra's diagnosis, but I also want to point out that the seller should be hemming veils for sale that have bad selvages like that. Silk on the bolt can be all over the board for selvages -- piercings are common, but they might be really big and noticeable or small and nigh- invisible; sometimes selvages are fringy and rough. Veil edges should look nice.

*gets off soapbox*

Originally Posted by tigerb

Veil edges should look nice.

Agree. And a puckered or fringry selvage will affect how it handles.

I totally agree on finished edges, but there are a ton of veils sold with no regard to finishing at all, so I didn't make a big deal about it. I think everything should be hemmed-but that is a personal opinion.

I think I may have just bought a pair of veils from the same vendor. Mine have small holes along the top and one had a piece of thin string still left in it. I think that the string must be used to hang the veils, perhaps during dyeing? It doesn't seem to have damaged the silk at all. I just pulled it out.

If this came from me, I would apologize profusely for the ripped veil and offer to refund or exchange it immediately.

And I would never ask seller to pay expense on shipping a defect item back.

Approximately 400 veils pass thru my hands one way or another over a week ( I did a count once :) ..it's hard to catch all of them. If indeed I did send someone a veil with a rip I would hope that they would contact me immediately and I would replace/refund asap. At my shipping expense.

...not sure if it is applicable here but there are some dye and hand paint techniques and the silk is stretched and pinned to a frame. When I hand paint a certain type of fashion scarf I have to pin it to a frame.

Originally Posted by ZohraMostafa

I just bought a pair of veils from the same vendor. Mine have small holes along the top and one had a piece of string still left in it. I think that the string must be used to hang the veils, perhaps during dyeing?

String? Not thread, but string?

That's baffling. How could you iron a veil and not notice a piece of string attached to it? ..c::

Originally Posted by ZohraMostafa

I think that the string must be used to hang the veils, perhaps during dyeing?

I buy a lot of silk and the bolts come with a tag attached with string. If I removed the tag but not the string while dying a veil, I'd end up with a veil with string attached.

It sounds like QC for this vendor is not great. May I enquire who the vendor was? Or maybe you'd like to contact them about refund first before sharing that info..

I'm not saying QC should be overlooked..and I don't even know if it was mine. But in support of vendors who do a high volume of business..it is very easy to have an item or two slip by. This is what happens when you are dealing with a vendor who is the HANDMADE ARTIST as opposed to someone who is importing something from overseas and simply re-packaging. Obviously vendors with low volume sales will be able to catch things more often but when you are up at midnight after a 16 hour day packing veils that you yourself dyed by hand all day long, sometimes mistakes happen.

Said vendor COULD raise the price to pay for an employee to help out. But how does a higher price help the buyer.

Mistakes happen. It's not the end of the world just so long as the item is replaced or refunded. I am served the wrong plate, cold food, get home with a shirt that instantly pops buttons, my new cool owl necklace lasted a day before it fell from the chain..but no biggie. I just politely ask for exchange or refund. If no one is injured or dead from it then no biggie

And after doing this for ten years, in the future it would encourage the buyer to buy items well in advance .

I'm not siding with the vendor I just understand what it is like to run a handmade item business.

is the 'string' more like the thickness of kite string..or not quite yarn but not a thread right? those are common when you buy silk from the bolt. Very common. If upon receiving a veil like this there is one of these kite string things just gently pull it out. Simple as that.

Buying hemmed veils will probably eliminate this problem but you can anticipate paying more for the cost of the silk. You are paying for someone to not only dye the silk but to hem it too. That's extra work so they should be priced higher.

BTW mine are still priced well below market I practically give them away

Originally Posted by jesennia

BTW mine are still priced well below market I practically give them away

Jes, not to start a fight with you, but your veils are not priced "below market." Your veils are priced at the market price. I have seen silk veils for sale on ebay that are sold for as little as $19 -- THOSE are below market.

The A'kai silks veils are priced below what they are WORTH. They are trendsetting style leaders, and they are beautiful.

Originally Posted by jesennia

I'm not saying QC should be overlooked..and I don't even know if it was mine. But in support of vendors who do a high volume of business..it is very easy to have an item or two slip by....

Okay, I concur. One feature of buying handmade things is that they have variations and imperfections -- they don't all look like they came from a machine. I've sent out veils that had popped stitches in the hem without noticing. I once began to hand a veil to a customer and THEN noticed that it had been hemmed using poly thread (not by me) and so white stitching was visible all around the edge! I pointed it out to the customer and luckily it didn't bother her.

However. I still contend that it would be hard to forget to take a big piece of string off of a veil, because when it was ironed it would be in the way.

It would be pretty easy to send out a veil with a slight rip in it because that could easily happen after pressing, and when the veil was folded up one wouldn't be able to see it.

Originally Posted by tigerb

Jes, not to start a fight with you, but your veils are not priced "below market." Your veils are priced at the market price. I have seen silk veils for sale on ebay that are sold for as little as $19 -- THOSE are below market.

The A'kai silks veils are priced below what they are WORTH. They are trendsetting style leaders, and they are beautiful.

I see what you are saying. Market price and worth are two different things absolutely

When I started making veils it was the norm to pay $60 for silk veils from Unicorn Bellydance and L Rose and other reputable sources. Many silk vendors and artists have since lowered their prices to remain competitive with the low ball prices on ebay. If you have time and if it's possible, go back ten years on ebay and look at the normal selling price for silk veils on ebay. Now you don't see that. But..I don't sell veils on ebay much anymore since it's so expensive..my clientele followed me to etsy and i have already established wholesale accounts

Luckily I have other artistic avenues for income..painting the silk crepe ruanas, for one, has been a healthy nest egg. I can do whatever colors I like instead of trying to keep it within catalog designs so it satisfies the creative side. And they are priced for a high end market. There are two stores on the mainland that I can't keep stocked fast enough. On those no way would I lower the price I don't care if people started giving them away on ebay..simply because they are unique pieces. An import factory can't duplicate them. I can't even duplicate them

And I'm sitting on a completely new idea that will take some time to push forward with but again I won't have to follow market trends on price to stay competitive because I'll be the only one offering them..until others catch on

thank you though that was a nice thing to say

Originally Posted by jesennia

Luckily I have other artistic avenues for income..painting the silk crepe ruanas, for one, has been a healthy nest egg. I can do whatever colors I like instead of trying to keep it within catalog designs so it satisfies the creative side. And they are priced for a high end market. There are two stores on the mainland that I can't keep stocked fast enough....

Congratulations! The people who are willing to spend the money on "art clothing" are the people who are able to support artists in a career. They have the bucks to do so!

Having a ripped veil is certainly a no no!
The seller should indeed replace. But not hemming I think is totally fine. I have a'kais that are beautiful - thanks Jess! - but all unhemmed and the ones I make are unhemmed. Silk doesn't really fray unless it's chiffon. I serge all my chiffon veils.
I think unhemmed helps the veil stay light. Was this a 1/2 circle veil? Those definitely need to be hemmed. Selvage has never been an issue with me but that's just me.

Thanks everyone for the replies!
I'd feel better after I've spoken with the seller before revealing their name. Hopefully I'll be able to catch them tomorrow!

They are three yard silk veils that are partially hemmed. Edit: I do have to add I absolutely love how rich the colors are, especially of the blue/purple veil.

Here are some pictures... the small holes aren't included as that mystery is already solved! The selvage is a little more noticeable in the blue/purple veil than in the gold but is perfectly Okay. I think I was a little taken aback at the time as the I ran into the frayed veil first. Hopefully the exchange goes through smoothly. As exchanges/returns weren't specifically addressed before the purchase I wasn't sure what normal responsibility includes (ah, I'm too used to big department stores!)
Now let's see if I can get these things attached...
1)


2) This is the tie dye gold veil with the pulls.

Not all silk is created equal, and not all silk is handled properly. IMO, even good silk can be weakened by sudden changes of temperature during dying (saves time for the dyer, though, and time is money) and lousy silk can come 'preweathered.' I don't know if your vendor makes the veils or gets them from someone else, and I don't know what your price point is. The cheap-veil epidemic is one reason I dye and sew our troupe veils myself. They are tools, not just pretties.

The damage on the purple veil is something I've seen before - I've seen veils that were all-over scaling (I don't know why I call it that, I just do). It is not always easy to see unless and until you hold it up to a light source, which a lot of vendors probably don't do. It certainly doesn't bode well for the life-expectancy of the veil. If I had to repair the red veil I would remove the edges with damage (which would make the veil smaller) and re-hem them (making them smaller yet) but they would still be usable. Since this was purchased, I say -- return it if possible.

Returning anything is time-consuming and unpleasant, and your boyfriend has probably already caught on to the fact that his beautiful gift was not perfect. I hope the interaction with the vendor goes smoothly.

Originally Posted by maurazebra

Not all silk is created equal, and not all silk is handled properly. IMO, even good silk can be weakened by sudden changes of temperature during dying (saves time for the dyer, though, and time is money) and lousy silk can come 'preweathered.' I don't know if your vendor makes the veils or gets them from someone else, and I don't know what your price point is. The cheap-veil epidemic is one reason I dye and sew our troupe veils myself. They are tools, not just pretties.

thumbs up to this statement ..g.: I love it..the cheap veil epidemic. that is blog worthy

Now that I see pictures, yes Reefdiver I would definitely ask for a refund or exchange. At seller's expense. I misunderstood and thought that they were the tiny holes that appear in some selvage edges. And that the string was something completely different.

The pictures of the veils you show, that is unacceptable to sell as full retail. I would personally sell that as an oops for 15 or 20 bucks as damaged goods. A seamstress may be able to flip over the top border and use the hem to hide the problem. But it should be sold with the understanding it is damaged.

Again mistakes happen. If someone else helps with shipping ..well put it this way, no one cares about the business as much as the owner. Mistakes are aplenty..and we try to hire help so we can delegate work. I can relate to problems with employees that's why I choose to do it on my own .

But hopefully you will get this resolved quickly.

I'm not sure if I'm seeing this correctly but the one veil also appears to have a shift in the silk weft..this is common with light silk ..even simple handling to dye and dry it can make it happen. I LOVE LIGHT silk to dance with but prefer to dye heavy silk.

Anyways that shift in weft is also more common with the silks that come from India. I was at the Magic Show in Vegas a few years back and sampled a LOT of silk. Chinese silk tends to be a bit more expensive unless you know the right people. The Indian silk ..and how they determine mm or heaviness, is different. I found it , on comparison with the chinese silk, to be a little bit more dull, the silk shifted easier , and it had the slightest stiffness to it that I didn't like.

As a side note, Thai Silks and Dharma are both great local sources for silk. Dharma still might be selling that 8 mm silk with the funky selvage edge but I've always had really pretty silk delivered from both sources.

hope this helps.

Originally Posted by eshtabellydance

Having a ripped veil is certainly a no no!
The seller should indeed replace. But not hemming I think is totally fine. I have a'kais that are beautiful - thanks Jess! - but all unhemmed and the ones I make are unhemmed. Silk doesn't really fray unless it's chiffon. I serge all my chiffon veils.
I think unhemmed helps the veil stay light. Was this a 1/2 circle veil? Those definitely need to be hemmed. Selvage has never been an issue with me but that's just me.

Are you still making solid color veils? I need to refer business your way when I get requests.. solids aren't my forte :)

I am so glad those veils didn't come from me! Eeeek! Got nervous for a second I do both those colors and designs but my veils are heavier.
It looks from the pics like it happened from poor handling or was a defect. The seller should have caught it.
Jess- yes I actually only do solid colors now because mixing is too hard in my tiny kitchen and I have a big old industrial washer in my basement I only use for solid color dyeing so refer away. We can exchange links on our sites if you want. I'd like to refer people to you also cause I get really tired of having to dye veils for custom costumes. Maybe I can send them along to you?

absolutely and I'll do the same for you..

I'm waaaay behind on updating my website right now, it's honestly the last thing on the list. I have 10 more days at the hospital to complete and I'm getting an apartment today or tomorrow (move in will be easy and it's just a short term lease) ...but website is way down on the list.

I believe I just got a request for a red veil last night..am happy to send to you
what is your business email?

xxoo

ps threads like this are useful, it makes me want to raise my prices

Hey everyone! I just thought I'd come back and give an update on what happened.

The seller is Audrena. We contacted her and she said she'd replace the veil. It's now mid April and guess what? No veil! After that exchange she has not yet returned/answered any phone calls or e-mails. We are still trying to get in contact with her.

oh fer pete's sake. Awk. Another reason why I make almost all our costume pieces.