Thread: The Basics on Silk Veils

So, after six years of raqs sharqi, I've actually become interested in veil work (beyond the Egyptian swish-swish-spin-discard). Never had much interest until the past month...ignored veil threads on Bhuz...so I don't know much. I am not looking for information on how to dance with a veil, but rather have questions about fabric weights and the like. I have had so little experience with veils, and that with polyester chiffon until recently, so please excuse my shocking ignorance.

First off: hemmed or unhemmed? I know this is something I should experiment with for myself, but - how much of a difference do you find that hemming really makes? On a 4mm veil versus an 8mm veil? With hems on two sides versus on all four sides?

I'm not sure what the weight of the veil that I'm using in troupe rehearsal right now is (it's not mine). It's an L. Rose hand-painted one, so I think it's
6mm. Since L. Rose just had a silk sale, I bought one of her China silk veils, which according to the site is 8mm. I'm concerned it will be a little heavier than I'd like. Can anyone tell me more about silk weights? Again, I know this is a matter of personal preference, but I'd like some veil experts to share their knowledge/preferences.

Maybe this should be in the "Reviews" board, but I'm wondering about the different veil-makers out there. Favorites? Pros and cons of each? Fairy Cove? Flying Skirts? Nahari? How are the silk veils on Dahlal? I know A'kai is a favorite, but she seems to mostly do multi-colored veils and I'm into solid colors.

One more question: can you go into a fabric store and buy three yards of silk and there's your veil? Or will silk from a store need to be hemmed?

Relieve me of my burden of ignorance!

Thanks

The problem with your questions is that almost all of this is personal preference. Some people prefer unhemmed, some prefer hemmed. Some people like very light and floaty (5 or 6 momme), some people like something that will take a faster movement without collapsing (8 momme).

I don't know what the fabric stores are like where you live, but around here you can't buy silk on the bolt at a veil weight. The silk on bolts around here is mostly skirt-weight and heavier. If you could, well yes, if you like your veil hemmed you would have to hem it.

Dharma trading sells un-dyed finished silk veils in both weights (and silk yardage if you wanted to try un-hemmed) for about as cheap as you're going to get.

I've ordered from them bazillions of times over the years and I've always been extremely satisfied.

Here ya go:

Choosing A Veil

I'm a FANATIC when it comes to whether or not a veil should be hemmed. It should be hemmed, of course! ..l;,..l;,

Vendors? There are plenty to choose from. A'Kai is, of course, one of my faves as Jess makes very light veils, which is what I delight in. L.Rose is another favorite of mine...

YMMV

Thanks everyone!
Zorba, your guide is very much what I'm looking for. Thanks!

Any suggestions for improvements are always welcome!

Yup I like doing the multi colored ones...look for Eshta on bhuz, she does some lovely solids.

I like dancing with light silk because of my background in Sufi dance with Adnan Sarhan..and Eva Cernik. I almost enter a trance when I work with light silk.

A rolled him will give you a different ripple than an unhemmed veil. It is probably not detectable to a beginner.

But some dancers prefer heavy silk, they like something to 'grip' so to speak.

I make both depending on what is on sale..

Google or you tube Lulu Sabongi , Mahisha, Sonya, Eva Cernik..maybe some Sufi dance with veil

welcome to silk :)

Originally Posted by Mihrbanu

One more question: can you go into a fabric store and buy three yards of silk and there's your veil? Or will silk from a store need to be hemmed?
Thanks

If you are lucky enough to live near a fabric store that actually carries silk fabrics, then yes you can, though you will probably pay an inflated price for it. Just make sure that the silk is either silk habotai or silk chiffon, and 44-45" in width. One confusing issue to be aware of: the term "china silk" can mean different things. It can refer to medium weight silk habotai, but some people use it to refer to synthetic fabrics that mimic silk habotai (these synthetics do not make good veils so read the fiber content carefully).

The selvage edges (the edges that will be 3 yards in length) do not need to be hemmed if they have a nice finish. The 45" edges should be hemmed or ripped. To rip it, you make about a half inch snip through the selvage, then grasp both sides firmly and tear. If you cut it with scissors instead of tearing/ripping it, it will unravel badly. If you rip it, you can gently pull out a few loose threads and it will be stable.

I dye silk and I really don't have much preference between hemmed and ripped edges; thus I generally go for ripped because hemming requires work.

Originally Posted by ssipes

... thus I generally go for ripped because hemming requires work.

That's what sergers are for, girlfriend!

my hands can be dead on when it comes to inserting IV's in people but give me a sewing machine or serger and it's trouble

I'm with Ssipes on this..ripping is easy and kinda fun:)

Originally Posted by zorba

That's what sergers are for, girlfriend!

Not all sergers produce a hem I would like to see on a silk veil. (My opinion, of course.)

I like ripped. I sell ripped. I only serge 1/2 circles or if requested.

Originally Posted by jesennia

my hands can be dead on when it comes to inserting IV's in people but give me a sewing machine or serger and it's trouble.

You sound like my wife! She's an RN and hates sewing too! I'm no expert, I'm still making stupid beginner's mistakes, but I do love my serger!

Originally Posted by tigerb

Not all sergers produce a hem I would like to see on a silk veil. (My opinion, of course.)

I was thinking the same thing. I do not have much experience with them, but the ones I have seen make a very bulky rolled hem because of all the thread that gets used.

Then there is the thread issue. Changing thread is a hassle on sergers, and you'd either have to hem before dying and keep your serger strung up with silk thread, or hem after and change thread colors for each veil. Yuk.

Originally Posted by ssipes

I was thinking the same thing. I do not have much experience with them, but the ones I have seen make a very bulky rolled hem because of all the thread that gets used.

Then there is the thread issue. Changing thread is a hassle on sergers, and you'd either have to hem before dying and keep your serger strung up with silk thread, or hem after and change thread colors for each veil. Yuk.

I'm with you. I have seen a few veils hemmed after dyeing with a very delicate 2-thread hem, and the artist used a metallic thread, but I still thought it looked pretty stiff.

Actually, hemming a silk veil makes very little difference to how the veil handles (to my eye/hand/experience at least) - but it sure makes finding the edges easier!

Originally Posted by zorba

Actually, hemming a silk veil makes very little difference to how the veil handles (to my eye/hand/experience at least) - but it sure makes finding the edges easier!

Could you possibly post a close up photo for us of what your serged veil hems look like?

If you don't own a serger and/or don't want a raw edge, you can also finish with a small zigzag stitch by going a tiny bit in, sewing straight down the length of the fabric, and carefully trimming the excess after you sew. Because this is only two threads sewn flat, it's a softer, less bulky edging than a 3- or 4-thread serger seam or a rolled hem, but it will help hold the fabric from fraying.

I bought some fairycove silk veils that are hemmed with a narrow rolled hem and silk thread, and they are just as flowy as my non-hemmed silk veils. The key might be using thin silk thread before dying so the color matches the rest of the pattern and making a really narrow hem.

Thank you all for your input. I'm excited to start exploring.

Originally Posted by tigerb

Could you possibly post a close up photo for us of what your serged veil hems look like?

Unfortunately not. I'm 2,500 miles away from my veils right now, in Chi-Town...

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

If you don't own a serger and/or don't want a raw edge, you can also finish with a small zigzag stitch by going a tiny bit in, sewing straight down the length of the fabric, and carefully trimming the excess after you sew. Because this is only two threads sewn flat, it's a softer, less bulky edging than a 3- or 4-thread serger seam or a rolled hem, but it will help hold the fabric from fraying.

That's awesome idea! Thanks for the info!

this might help:

Rectangle silk veils

Originally Posted by zorba

Actually, hemming a silk veil makes very little difference to how the veil handles (to my eye/hand/experience at least) - but it sure makes finding the edges easier!

Wait, just re-read this. Are you saying you hem the long edges!? Even if the selvage looks nice?

Originally Posted by ssipes

Wait, just re-read this. Are you saying you hem the long edges!? Even if the selvage looks nice?

Yes.

Do understand that this is *my* preference, it makes it easier to find the edge by feel. I especially want the straight edge hemmed on half circles, even more-so if said half circles are silk. I want/need all the help I can get to find the edges as quickly as possible.

It also helps when I'm attempting to perform veilwork with Zills on too - not that I'm any good at same! ..l;,

I realize many many dancers do just fine with un-hemmed veils - and more power to them! But anyone who is having problems with veils should at least try a fully hemmed one and see if it helps (or not).

Hey, no criticism intended. This was mostly an ingrained reaction because at one time I was making/selling large numbers of veils, in the beginning I did rolled hems, and I would have died to have to hem all 4 edges! Also it was pre-Alexander Technique and I had a terrible amount of tension and pain in my neck, so sewing was really painful.

And no offense taken!

I just wanted those who don't like/don't need hems on their veils to not think they were doing something wrong or something!

I've taken to serging my veils now - faster, easier, and gives the same results from a usability standpoint. You can do a similar thing with a regular sewing machine by overcasting the edge - but its a bit tedious...

I do a narrow hem on almost every veil. For the best veils, I do a four or six-thread hem. My long-armed, strong-armed daughter does a lot of veil (single, double, quadruple) with silk veils and, as Zorba says, the hem really helps the dancer figure out where the edge is fast! Her dance company also does double veil with silk, and for them I often make the long edges a bit different than the short edges -- again to orient them to the edges of the veil.

I bought a few of the Dharma veil blanks and did not find the machine-rolled edges attractive (compared to my usual little hems), and I don't know how durable they will be. But that's probably nit-picking. If you want to dye yourself a veil but don't want to hem it yourself, the Dharma blanks provide a cost-effective product.

I would allocate the effort you put into hemming a veil by what you will get out of it. If you are trying to sell veils in a market where the buyers expect to pay $20 each, then I'd say the buyers are lucky if you hem the short edges. If all you intend to do with the veil is open up a number and then toss it in a corner, then ditto.

Out of curiosity, have you tried any NON silk veils? While I would agree that most veils that come with 'sets' are pretty worthless, I have a number of polyester, chiffon and crepes that work magic. They don't float like silk, but drape and spin beautifully. Just suggesting that you don't limit yourself too soon.

My hands-down favorite-for which I paid a small fortune to the maker!-is a white china silk that is not only hemmed all the way around, but is BEADED with red and gold rocailles. Not in a straight line, but traced in lines (sorry, not explaining well. They're loops, but flat loops. Like thread thru, add 3 beads, needle trhu on other side) al the way around. The contrast between the edges' weight and the extreme float of the body is astounding!

I'll vouch...hemming the long edge would definite help fingers with zills on them find the edge . Go Zorba!!! I can spin and zill but can't do any veil work with zills a'goin :)