Thread: historically accurate??? no sequins at outside performances???

There is an annual show at our State Fair that has been running for about 15 years or so. Performers wear what they would normally wear for an indoor performance - i.e., the folkloric dancers are costumed as such, and the cabaret/Egyptian dancers are in their usual bedlahs or lycra sets.

This is an interesting thread. I'm curious as to what your director ended up saying. It sounds like she created a policy in her head to keep things uniform with a certain look she wants. You might not be able to persuade her otherwise but hopefully she can explain a little better.

And speaking as an "angry feminist" I like sparkles, do not find them "demeaning", am quite sure that most of us don't and am quite baffled as to why there is a presumption that there aren't more valid things that we are in fact angry about ;)

Originally Posted by raqFariha

bellydance being rooted in folk dance and usually a solo thing costume matching seems to be taken much more casually than in other dance forms. everything else i would have said has already been said, but i'll add that she does have the final say, and is being much less specific/strict than many other teachers/troupe directors are.

I don't think it has to do with folkloric roots, so much as not having a firm academic structure and not having an established professional destination that ultimately restricts performing to the most serious and talented students (as opposed to ballet, which has both). Belly dance is primarily a no-cut hobbyist pursuit. Different assumptions, different possibilities, different resulting attitudes. Ballet teachers can enforce seemingly arbitrary rules about pink tights because students take that kind of dictatorial attitude as part of the deal. We're afraid to say things that might drive students away. We tend to expect less of our students, and consequently get less from them.

Ballet teachers can enforce seemingly arbitrary rules about pink tights because students take that kind of dictatorial attitude as part of the deal

Most students there begin as children and have no problem (for the most part) being told what to do or not do. Most belly dancers begin as adults, so expectations can be very different.

Originally Posted by anala

Ballet teachers can enforce seemingly arbitrary rules about pink tights because students take that kind of dictatorial attitude as part of the deal

Most students there begin as children and have no problem (for the most part) being told what to do or not do. Most belly dancers begin as adults, so expectations can be very different.

Yup.

Originally Posted by zamora

where Tribal Style was "invented" for Ren fairs, i.e. dancing on open air stages.
?????????????????
we have been paid faire performers for over 10 years.we have NEVER done tribal!

Tribal was actually "invented" for a ren faire 40-odd years ago. It's a matter of historical record. But the costuming existed beforehand - people used to call it "ethnic" and in fact early tribal *was* "ethnic" and called "ethnic". I think, for a long time. What we think of as tribal now is about 25 years old.

Dancers used to wear more covered "ethnic" looks when they danced outside, more bare looks in the clubs, but the dancing was exactly the same. I suspect your troupe is doing this same thing.

Originally Posted by anala

Ballet teachers can enforce seemingly arbitrary rules about pink tights because students take that kind of dictatorial attitude as part of the deal

Most students there begin as children and have no problem (for the most part) being told what to do or not do. Most belly dancers begin as adults, so expectations can be very different.

And this would be one of the reasons belly dancers don't get taken seriously as a dedicated art form - because so many students think they know better than their teachers and refuse to costume or identify their dance appropriately.

It does seem like there are a few issues here but the bottom line is if you respect your teacher, you really need to wear what she's asked. I suggest also, out of respect that if you really want to question her direction on this that you do so with her privately and don't try to start a mutiny. It doesn't matter if the rest of the class agrees with you.
I love costuming-all kinds and every number my troupe does inspires me with all new suggestions. They quite often don't coincide with my instructor's ideas but she listens to me patiently and sometimes goes with some of them. I would never throw up all my suggestions & distract the class (you know we all get distracted by sparklies). I usually email her or show up early with pictures ;)
I love all of the caberet costumes posted in this thread but I don't like that they don't really match each other.

Originally Posted by anala

Ballet teachers can enforce seemingly arbitrary rules about pink tights because students take that kind of dictatorial attitude as part of the deal

Most students there begin as children and have no problem (for the most part) being told what to do or not do. Most belly dancers begin as adults, so expectations can be very different.

I think it goes beyond that. Even in Adult Rec Ed ballet classes, students are more accepting of these sorts of edicts, because the common understanding of ballet is that this is how ballet teachers act. They smack their canes on the floor and bark at students, and they're very demanding. What does the average member of the public expect of belly dancer teachers? Do they even know we have teachers?

Even in Adult Rec Ed ballet classes, students are more accepting of these sorts of edicts, because the common understanding of ballet is that this is how ballet teachers act. They smack their canes on the floor and bark at students, and they're very demanding.

Mine doesn't, but we would NEVER question anything he told us to do. One reason might be that he's a former international pro dancer (we rate international in my land). OTOH belly dance teachers are *often* only a few years ahead of their students, if that. Those who are fortunate enough to be taught by skilled working professionals with no less than a decade's experience of actual professional belly dance (more likely two or three decades) might not have the same assumption that their teacher's pronouncements aren't valid.

All these different opinions caused me to think alot. We danced hard tonight for the art fest, and I told the the teacher in private I wanted to match the other students for the pieces set (american) so wouldn't be wearing my assuit coin belt. When asked what were others wearing on top of their skirts, she didn't know, but assumed some type of coin scarf. That is what I'm wearing, and a very simple coin scarf for the egyptian set over the L. Rose dress. My teacher and fellow shimmy sister made it clear when she started the Oasis Dancers that she was in charge. My teacher/friend has danced for 30 years, never as a professional, just as a hobbyist. I will save my costuming battle for the pro troupe where I have equal say when that starts up again. She is my friend and that relationship is more important to me than wearing a hip scarf for an art fest. I don't feel frustrated anymore. Thank you ladies for all your opinions…and carry on, this is interesting stuff!

p.s. will take pics after the gig in mid-June and post here

Originally Posted by zumarrad

Tribal was actually "invented" for a ren faire 40-odd years ago. It's a matter of historical record. But the costuming existed beforehand - people used to call it "ethnic" and in fact early tribal *was* "ethnic" and called "ethnic". I think, for a long time. What we think of as tribal now is about 25 years old.

Yup, the Tribal Bible takes a detailed look at the origins of ATS/Tribal. When I started dancing in the early 80s, we called that eclectic ethnic style of costuming "Desert Style"

Originally Posted by shimarella

And speaking as an "angry feminist" I like sparkles, do not find them "demeaning", am quite sure that most of us don't and am quite baffled as to why there is a presumption that there aren't more valid things that we are in fact angry about ;)

There are valid things to be angry at, and then there are illiterate feminists who have a knee-jerk rage against anything that does not fit their perception of what a liberated woman should be. I suspect you are the former. I have met a lot of the latter, who have a hatred of the Middle East based on their assumptions that we live in harems over there.

Just some sidelights: All those heavy silver ornaments? If a woman from that part of the world is able to improve her economic situation, she takes them to the souk to sell and gets herself some gold. In hard times they may go towards medicine for a sick child, or school fees for a promising youngster. The tassels? Ornaments for donkeys and camels. This stuff is never bellydanced in, so the only history you are being true to is the dance tradition created here outside of the Middle East (which is legitimate in its own right.)