Thread: mutton dressed as lamb-grrrrrrrrr

Ever since I was a child, people in my family have called older women dressed in younger or flashier styles "mutton dressed as lamb." This judgement was probably a holdover from their conservative background and I try not to judge them. But I can't stop the subliminal action on my own mind now I am in my early 40's, not that it wasn't always present. My parents have only seen me dance once because dance in their minds is something little girls should put away before their teen years. Every time I put on a costume or makeup I fight it.
So here is my dilemma; I spend a lot of energy as a teacher helping women of all ages, shapes and sizes overcome society's judgement but inside I feel a hypocrite because I still judge myself. I would love to hear from others who understand this and are willing to share their stories.

Why should only younger women have all the fun? I can finally afford to take classes and workshops because I am a grownup and have a grownup job!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u0XzhUmijY&feature=youtube_gdata]YouTube - Marlene DIETRICH + Rosemary CLOONEY "TOO OLD TO CUT THE MUSTARD" 1952[/ame]

Just point any detractors in this direction. Glamour isn't just for babes..in fact, it's for dames..and I could point to a real Dame ..Dame Helen Mirren

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAeIu7KP31I&feature=related]YouTube - Helen Mirren - Red Blooded Woman[/ame]

and I did>

Helen Mirren, such a class act! She looks better than many of the younger actresses.

I think the 'mutton dressed as lamb' thing applies when you see a woman (or a man, actually) wearing clothes that really are cute / flattering only if you really are a teenager.

I was at a professional conference last week and saw a woman, prob. in her early 50s in a minidress. And it was an ugly minidress at that -- she had neither the youth, figure or face to carry it off. She just looked like someone desparately clinging to her past. However, if she'd been wearing something longer or at least more classy and better made- she'd have looked excellent b/c she really did have an enviable face, and figure.

I wouldn't be afraid of being called mutton-as-lamb as a bellydancer JUST BECAUSE you're in your 40s and wearing the sparklies. [Raq ON, Crones everywhere!] But like all fashion & style, you gotta wear what really flatters you at the time. Otherwise you just look silly.

I think one has to be careful to distinguish being realistic from being terrorized by counterproductive self talk. No matter how much moxie a woman has, not every belly dancer should wear every outfit or do every performance. I don't think I am pointing out how naked the emperor is if I say most 65-year-old dancers would not be doing themselves any favors by wearing one of Aziz's dangle-balls Wilma Flintstone miniskirt costumes on stage. That, to me, would be mutton dressed as lamb, not a middle-aged woman in a less outrageous outfit. However, I'm not saying that a 65-year-old should never wear an exposing or stylish costume. As a general rule, the older you are, the less trendy and more timeless your clothes should be, but some people maintain such large and dynamic stage personalities, that they can pull off even the craziest of outfits. The important thing is that your costumes show that you aren't ashamed of who you are (age and all!), and that you recognize what flatters the body you inhabit.

I want to see older dancers showing that they are capable of mature performances. They can still be whimsical performances, but they should have sophistication and intelligence to them, not just the sort of thoughtless fluff that younger dancers can get away with. Life experience gives depth to performance--use it. This is the difference between "working what you've got" and "pretending you're something you're not."

First off, you are 40, not dead!

Second, I agree with the statement that Mutton as Lamb is about dressing as though you were 20 years younger than you are.

Third, learn to wear what looks good on you, makes you feel beautiful. In this dance form, sparklies are the uniform. If you are uncomfortable with some of the more froo froo styles, choose something more sophisticated.

Lastly, and this is easy for me to say, does continuing to allow that mobius loop to play support you in any way? After all, they are just clothes, and shouldn't they be fun? So every once in a while you wear something which maybe doesn't sinc up with your age / image / what ever. But that is what is called a mistake. You don't have to wear it again, I promise.

{{{HUGS}}}

"The important thing is that your costumes show that you aren't ashamed of who you are (age and all!), and that you recognize what flatters the body you inhabit."

I think this is the critical component... not the age of the dancer, but the complete package. I dance with dancers who have just left their teens as well as those who are over 60. Some of the younger ladies just don't have the "moxie" to pull off more adventurous costumes. They might grow into it, but it's not them right now. Meanwhile, a few of the 40's, 50's and 60's I know are rockin' the "fun" stuff.

I'm mid 40's, and I tend to stick with bedlah and full skirt. My choice, mostly because it suits me more than a two piece. However, a troupemate of mine who just turned 50 rarely wears anything but the sleek 2-piece sets. And a third, who is mid 60's, prefers saidi or galabaya type costumes.

I don't think age really comes into play as much as taste, style and confidence of the dancer.

I agree with all that has been said about choosing costuming the flatters your body, style and personality. I just have to note that the expression itself is rather crude and demeaning. I hope you can eliminate it from your personal self-talk! Whoever uses this phrase probably isn't being kind or constructive, but judgmental and contemptuous. It could be used in a funny way, too, I suppose, like a SNL skit or something. And it is probably only directed at women, to try and keep them in their place or something like that.

You know what, to some degree I completely disagree with being "realistic". I'm old. I'm no longer in the market. I can damn well do what I want and I don't CARE. I'm a fat old ugly woman, the kind that's supposed to quietly disappear, and NOTHING I do that draws attention to me is acceptable, so if I want to wear a costume with lobster claws and furballs on it I will.

In truth there are real world fashions that don't work on anyone over 25 - those sack-dress minis everyone was wearing a few years back in particular - but I find a lot of the "classy" fashions older women are supposed to wear really dull and rather desperate looking too. The huge fake choppers, whiter than any natural tooth ever was, the "graceful" blonde hair, the Katherine Chancellor manicure, the "youthful" outfit - ie the most boring version of current fashion - are so predictable and awful to me.

Certainly there are things about a person's look that need modification with age, but "rules" are so limiting.

ETA A ton of people posted while I was posting!

Originally Posted by BELLA_BELLA

I think the 'mutton dressed as lamb' thing applies when you see a woman (or a man, actually) wearing clothes that really are cute / flattering only if you really are a teenager.

I was at a professional conference last week and saw a woman, prob. in her early 50s in a minidress. And it was an ugly minidress at that -- she had neither the youth, figure or face to carry it off. She just looked like someone desparately clinging to her past. However, if she'd been wearing something longer or at least more classy and better made- she'd have looked excellent b/c she really did have an enviable face, and figure.

I wouldn't be afraid of being called mutton-as-lamb as a bellydancer JUST BECAUSE you're in your 40s and wearing the sparklies. [Raq ON, Crones everywhere!] But like all fashion & style, you gotta wear what really flatters you at the time. Otherwise you just look silly.

Yes. that's how I see it too.
the "mutton" comment seems to be more about wearing something that is flattering/attractive/sexy vs. wearing something that looks like she's still trying to fit in with a high school crowd.....there's a reason that department in the store is called, "Juniors".....

Originally Posted by zumarrad

You know what, to some degree I completely disagree with being "realistic". I'm old. I'm no longer in the market. I can damn well do what I want and I don't CARE. I'm a fat old ugly woman, the kind that's supposed to quietly disappear, and NOTHING I do that draws attention to me is acceptable, so if I want to wear a costume with lobster claws and furballs on it I will.

In truth there are real world fashions that don't work on anyone over 25 - those sack-dress minis everyone was wearing a few years back in particular - but I find a lot of the "classy" fashions older women are supposed to wear really dull and rather desperate looking too. The huge fake choppers, whiter than any natural tooth ever was, the "graceful" blonde hair, the Katherine Chancellor manicure, the "youthful" outfit - ie the most boring version of current fashion - are so predictable and awful to me.

Certainly there are things about a person's look that need modification with age, but "rules" are so limiting.

ETA A ton of people posted while I was posting!

I agree ... well aside from the fat old ugly woman part - from your profile pics I've seen I've never gotten that impression - but the general point of even if you were ... people's ideas of realistic vary drastically ... and why on earth should the sight of someone who may not look a way that caters to our individual attractions dressed in something that we don't find appealing be SO offensive to us that we make rules and shove them down people's throats along with degrading sayings like this to make sure they stick ... if it expresses you - if you are happy with it (if you are in a troupe or group of some kind, obviously it also needs to express the group vision) ... then why does anyone else care? personally ... I find it refreshing when I see people who are refusing to follow the rule of just because I'm past a certain age I MUST abandon what I like to wear

In a few months I'll be 63 and I am a belly dancer. I intend to costume myself appropriately, but as an appropriate belly dancer. My arms are covered cause no one wants to see my wings flapping around. But my legs are pretty darn good so my skirts are slit up to there!

I am with Zumm on this--I can do what I want. And you'd better believe that after 63 years I have plenty of stuff to dance about. Tarab music means something to me cause I've lived it. I am not going to dance to Esmaooni with a silly grin on my face hopping around when the music and the song are ripping my heart out. But I am also a bint balad at heart and if I feel like flirting with the audience or doing a great big waggle butt hip circle then I am going to do it and enjoy the heck out of it and I don't care what anyone else thinks.

When I had my 50th birthday my husband bought me a mountain bike and it was the best birthday present ever. A friend told me that I should act my age and that at 50 a "lady" should be more serious and sedate. As Aunt Rocky would say, "Steer st**l!"

If it weren't for the Grande Dames of bellydance I wouldn't still be doing it.

Thank you all so far.
This is a treasure to me! I have done a mental 360 due to a few of your comments - that age can be a freeing thing. Though I won't be freeing my "wings" much longer :) I am actually so comfortable and flamboyant in my skin that I don't do much tribal dance because the costumes are too similar to the regular clothes I've been wearing for the last twenty years (a la burningman) Yet, as I age I have become less conscious of being different and have come to see it as a strength not just a given. I think outward confidence and the internal rumblings of the mind don't always jive. I love my sparklies yet that pre-programmed loop keeps looping. I have carried this ugly message all these years yet lived in complete defiance of it. So I look forward to this negativity easing away due to age. I am reminded of the poem that goes something like "When I am an old woman I shall wear purple" One of my deepest wishes ever is to remove the damage society/advertising/family/media does to people and women in particular. We deserve better.
And I'm old enough to not give a @#$%!
And those youtube clips are fabulous! Those are what I'd call role models!

Turning 50 is a very liberating moment for many women. Suddenly you are half a century old and you can do whatever you please.

Originally Posted by Souzan

Turning 50 is a very liberating moment for many women. Suddenly you are half a century old and you can do whatever you please.

Really? Then I have something to look forward to! ..g.:

I'm turning 45 this year and have some mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, I don't feel at all old. On the other hand, that's a rather large number that totally doesn't jive with the age I feel inside.

I am 48 (at the end of ) and I am just starting my dance professional career last year and I take major offense to that kind(mutton lamb) of a remark. I wear that which my body looks good in, and hide the problem areas, so you wo nt see me with my yucki upper leg areas hanging out my skirts I either wear something under or close the slit to knee area, I try to cover the upper arm area that as you age is not so flattering. Most people think I am in my thirties thank god. In my personal life I wear young looking clothes only if they look good. So I really think it if you look good who cares. If you dont too darn bad for anyone who is judging you or anyone else, who appointed them the clothes police. :)

I remember that when I was a child, somebody said that women over 40 should wear their hair short...

But the world has changed!
I am 41 and still wear long hair, oh shock! ..l;,

I think that 30 years ago, a 40 years old woman was "older" than today.
And that mutton-remark must come from somewhere before 1930...

MEISSOUN

I agree meissoun! Everyone was telling me I had to keep my hairshort (one friend even told me I should keep it in a certain style and color and wear a certain thing) then I realized she wanted me to be like her..... I am nothing like her although she is still a friend, we all have to dress and wear our hair as we want to, anyone else is jealous or ignorant. LOL.... maybe that was harsh.,,, you know what I mean... My hair is long too, and instead of lightening it I went close to my natural dark hair it looks best..... yeah!

When I used the word "realistic," I wasn't talking about some externally defined reality, but the act of being able to own what you honestly think and feel. Each dancer defines her own reality, and you shouldn't have to be ashamed of making decisions that feel right to you when the choice is yours to make. Each of these thoughts are "real" in their own way:

"I like my body and I like how I look in a two-piece costume with a bare stomach, even though I know not everybody agrees with me. I'm not going to let anyone bully me into wearing a stomach cover for my solo."

"I know I have a nice figure, but I would feel naked and weird in a Sahar floating bra. I prefer a more covered look, even though other dancers are always telling me they wish they were built like me and I should wear sexier costumes."

"I feel really self conscious about the varicose veins on my legs. I know I'm not supposed to be bothered by this, but I am anyway, and I enjoy performing more when I can wear harem pants or skirts without slits, so I don't have to think about them."

"I don't care if those minimalist Lycra costumes are the 'in' style and that's what everybody else is wearing. A fringe-monster bedlah with a full circle skirt is a classic look and the style is flattering on me, so that's what I like to wear when I dance."

I with you... I love bling and my stomach is not covered either! Like you said what I am not comfortable with I wont show as it should be for any dancer. What you feel comfortable with, perfection is in the eye of the beholder.

The specific expression "Mutton dressed as Lamb" sounds an old and very sexist term - implying that the older woman is pitifully trying to disguise her age in an attempt to attract someone of the opposite sex.

It's rare that I've seen mature dancers come across as they've costumed themselves with such thoughts in mind. However, over the years, I've found that every so often I need to take stock of slight changes in different styles really look on me - calling to mind some of Tourbeau's thoughts, for example. In my case, at 54, I need to admit that I need to forego the skinny bra straps for bras with wider straps - not just for the support they provide, but because they look better on a mature body.

At 40 - you should really love the hell out of your body and wear whatever makes you feel the most beautiful and fun when you dance!!! In a few years you will look back and feel you were not old at 40, just perhaps getting near the tail end of your youth.

One expression I enjoy employing since I've turned 50 - "IF NOT NOW, WHEN???"

-Devora

Originally Posted by meissoun

I remember that when I was a child, somebody said that women over 40 should wear their hair short...

But the world has changed!
I am 41 and still wear long hair, oh shock! ..l;,

I think that 30 years ago, a 40 years old woman was "older" than today.
And that mutton-remark must come from somewhere before 1930...

MEISSOUN

Yes, and no woman should EVER allow her grey hair to show. Well, I haven't had this many compliments on my hair since I was a child and old ladies would grab my long dark brown hair in shops and gush over it.

I'm in my 60's and I wear what I like and what suits me. Beautiful bedlahs, some with body stockings some without, skirts slit up to there and some just to the knee, gorgeous dresses with rhinestones and sequins, fabulous tribal.
And when I eventually "kick the tin", full hair and makeup and my sparkliest costume.
Let the archeologists of the future make of it what they will.

Long hair, short hair.......I do believe that one ought to reevaluate one's hair style and stage makeup every 10 years or so. There are several very well-known and talented dancers in the age-achievement categories whose hair (with additional clip ons & stuff) & makeup makes them look .... harsh, like they are wearing masks from decades past. Not glamorous, sexy, exotic, wise, etc. Scary and a little clownish.

I'm one in the over 40 now flattered by the short hair category...grew up short, then long and bushy...then short again around 40-th b-day. Got so many compliments the first week that I cringed to think I'd been wearing such a less than great style formerly. YIKES.

And I'm looking forward to the day that I fully embrace my Inner Hag.

If we're talking of animals, look at animals--maybe not so much sheep, but take racehorses. Fillies and colts are beautiful delicate creatures, full of spark and flash. But those retired mares and stallions, deepened and filled out, are magnificent and glorious, full of confidence and aware of their strength! Take the cultural judgment away from the scenario, and you can see the physical being for what it is.

Love that insight, Badriya. You're absolutely right.