Thread: silk veils: 5mm VS 8mm

Ok - because I do not have them in front of me I cannot feel the difference so I am hoping that someone can help.

1 - is there a big dancing difference between the two? I mean is an 8MM significantly different?

2 - Which one has better dye capability?

3 - which one do you prefer and why?

Thanks!

I can only answer #1 and #3 -

#1. I personally find 5mm and 8mm to be significantly different in the amount of control the dancer has over the veil. The 5mm is so light it seems to float almost magically, which looks lovely in entrances.

#3. I prefer the 8mm, since my dance style involves veil wraps, and I find those difficult to maneuver using 5mm. To me, even 6mm is markedly easier to use than the 5mm. I wish more regular 3-4 yard rectangular veils would be available in 8mm.

-Devora

I used to prefer 8 mm but now I like 5 or 6mm. To me 8mm feels like I'm whipping a sheet around. That being said, I don't do a whole lot of veil work, and usually just the Egyptian intro swish swish toss.

For a few specific moves, like Aziza's veil juggle, or Aradia's "kiss, kiss", I find the 5mm is easier for those moves that need "hang time".

They dye the same, but because the 8mm is thicker it will be more opaque.

awesome. Thinking that 5mm will work best for my intermediate students too. Maybe I will order an 8mm just to try it out and dye it to see how it works.

Thank you both!

8mm does suck up significantly more dye pigment, leading to richer color.

i like 5 because i like the hang time. i also had a problem with not allowing the veil to breath when i first learned, so it's like undulations: i had to concentrate on it so much that now it's front and center
8 mm feels like a work out to me. i think if i learned with a 8mm and not ever experienced anything else, then went to a 5 i would be whipping it around with too much force and it'd look like i was beating the veil up rather than dancing with it, just out of expecting to need more force to move it.
they tend to be a bit sheer, esp. with lighter colors. but i like that.

I like the 5mm for slower veil work and 8mm for fast! The 8mm seems to have richer color, but 5 or 6 is more sheer and lets the light shine through more.

I use both for different purposes- yes, the 8mm gets more intense color, & I won't even TRY to dye a 5mm with black! or deep red.

the weight makes a big difference in how the veil moves- I generally do my 8mm veils as half circles, both to reduce the weight a smidge, & also because the square edges make this weird flappy noise I don't like. I like to have both available, what I like changes with my mood!

Originally Posted by Lara L

I use both for different purposes- yes, the 8mm gets more intense color, & I won't even TRY to dye a 5mm with black! or deep red.

the weight makes a big difference in how the veil moves- I generally do my 8mm veils as half circles, both to reduce the weight a smidge, & also because the square edges make this weird flappy noise I don't like. I like to have both available, what I like changes with my mood!

My semicircular veils are 8mm, too. I use them for double veil. I find that while they're heavy, they move really nicely, and have a bit more "oomph" that works well with the moves I do in double veil. Also, I tend to use slightly faster music for double veil, and that means I have a bit more momentum than I might otherwise, which is good for the heavier stuff.

Originally Posted by Devora

I can only answer #1 and #3 -

#1. I personally find 5mm and 8mm to be significantly different in the amount of control the dancer has over the veil. The 5mm is so light it seems to float almost magically, which looks lovely in entrances.

#3. I prefer the 8mm, since my dance style involves veil wraps, and I find those difficult to maneuver using 5mm. To me, even 6mm is markedly easier to use than the 5mm. I wish more regular 3-4 yard rectangular veils would be available in 8mm.

-Devora

ITA

It depends on what you (a dancer) likes, is used to, and most importantly, what your veil style is for a given performance.

Overall, I like 5mm. With that said, I have a number of 8s. Anything heavier than 8 is like doing capework (to me) and I don't care for them. I use 5 for double veil - but that's MY style. YMMV...

I also have a ridiculously light diaphanous silk-chiffon veil. Must be equivalent to about a 2. I don't dance with it often, its clingy and very fragile in handling. But when I'm in the mood for it, it can be a joy.

Originally Posted by zorba

I also have a ridiculously light diaphanous silk-chiffon veil. Must be equivalent to about a 2. I don't dance with it often, its clingy and very fragile in handling. But when I'm in the mood for it, it can be a joy.

Ooh, where'd you find that?

Back to topic, I prefer 5mm as I like the way they float, but for faster movements/double veil I like heavier better, it doesn't "drag" in the air.

I love dancing with 5 mm rectangles and 5 mm large half circles, but like a 10 mm charmeuse silk for smaller or regular size double veil

8 mm..I have better luck with black when dyeing an 8 mm.

I like to make what dancers want, I couldn't really say what sells better for me since I offer 5 mm and 8 mm veils. There are certain color styles I will only dye on 8 mm silk, like Tiger Magic and Ring of Fire. And some soft colors like Bint Mint for lighter silk.

beware of buying 8 mm silk by the bolt from dharma, at times it has a raw selvage edge.

A'Kai Silks belly dance silk veils skirts scarves by akaisilks

I love 8mm. That's all I use and that is all I make and sell. It's harder to dye because it's thicker but works great dyeing as a solid color in the washing machine.

Originally Posted by khalima

Ooh, where'd you find that?

One of my teachers had it in her store. Goddess only knows where it came from!

Originally Posted by eshtabellydance

I love 8mm. That's all I use and that is all I make and sell. It's harder to dye because it's thicker but works great dyeing as a solid color in the washing machine.

Harder to dye? In what way? I've never found that... curious to know what problems you've seen.

I have found the 8 mm to be much easier for hand painted versus hand dyeing designs

hmmmmm.... Like jesennia said. Easy to hand paint for sure. For example you can get a nice solid veil using the tub or stove method with 5mm. And it bunches up smaller so it's easier to manipulate. 8mm is more like a sheet so you can stretch it out and paint on it easily. But 8mm can be harder to get an even color if you are doing a solid color using the tub or stove method. But it works great in the washing machine. Just make sure you have a spare machine.

I'm willing to bet money that each of us is our own secret chemist and we have certain things we do that totally changes the dye experience :)

I have trade secrets that I won't even tell my mom ..g.:

Originally Posted by jesennia

I have trade secrets that I won't even tell my mom ..g.:

I have secrets, but mostly because it's too hard to explain all the little tweaks I keep making to my processes! I haven't quite gotten to "turn around 3 times and spit over the left shoulder before adding citric acid" but I'm getting there.

yesssss no secrets!!!!! People are always trying to get me to tell them the secret of how I make my bra and belt bases. But no way!
It's secret sauce ladies. Secret sauce!

oh, I'll share some of my secrets- but only because most of you don't have access to the pure Alaskan rainwater.....g.:

seriously tho- water, ambient temperature- it all makes a difference, to the point that my tweaked recipes wouldn't work the same for anyone else- there's a lot of experimentation needed to get that perfect hue!

It's really remarkable how many factors go into the results of a dye process -- the warmth of the environment. The humidity. How much water. What's in your water. Temperature of the water. How you measure your dyes. How you measure your auxiliary chemicals. What order you mix in. How long you do this or that. The age of your dyes. The age of your auxiliaries. What shades you picked and in what concentration you mixed them. What process you use; what brands of dyes you use; how you manipulate your fabric...

...it is NO WONDER our end products look not at all the same!