Thread: How to grow your hair out long, but still have it volumous!!!??

Hi ladies.

(A little ranty, please bear with me)

Ok, so let me start off by saying, that I'm a lifey long-haired person. At one time, I had hair down to my hipbone, and it's been over the years steadily getting shorter.

I am aware of the Long Hair Site, and for years was told to never layer my hair if you want to keep it long.

As I've gotten a bit older, I grew tired of having all-one length hair parted to one side, when so many of my collegues had fun, flippy, modern do's. I felt my hair aged me, and made me look old-fashioned. So I slowly had layers and bangs put in, which I mostly liked.

Problem is, when these things grow out, my hair looked terrible! So thin and unshapen. Plus, I think my hair is just thinner now.

I went in the other day to get a trim, and came out with at least 6 inches cut off of the back of my hair. A bit too short, yes, but not only that, somehow the stylist layered it so that I lose a lot of the motion that my hair had, ie, it lies flat on the head all the time.

I know I'm freaking, and I asked for it, but I just don't know how to get both body and volume, and long hair, too! My hair is very fine, though it used to be thick. Do you grow out layers? How do you get past the hideous phase? My hair's skimming my shoulders now, which apparently the stylist calls "bra length".

I know it's just hair. What's worked for you, as far as maintaining healthy long hair. Layers or no? Hair to frame the face or no? I just gotta stop now, I feel, before I lose all my hair. I just want it to be long and look good! (ps. layers suck, too, for braids and all that. Can't do any of those anymore!)

Hi Elianae,

I'm going to be watching this thread, as I have very long hair and have wondered about this same thing. I don't have answers, but I feel you!! I started growing mine 12 years ago, and the only major cuts have been 15 inches off in 2007 and then 14 inches off about 6 months ago -- the last done by a hairdresser, who of course cut it shorter than I wanted (and charged full-price hairstyle for basically a straight-across cut, much less complicated than men's hairstyles which have a lower starting price.. grrr...). Anyway, I really feel for you on the stylist. I have never gone to a hairdresser who has not cut more off than I wanted, which is part of why I didn't go to one for over 10 years.

Mine is very fine, very flat, and is now back to my beltline. I've wondered about layers, to give it more body, but I'm nervous about it and your experience makes me even more so. I also try to avoid any products on my hair as well as heat treatments like blowdrying, but from what I've seen with others putting mousse in and blow drying your hair while your head is hanging upside down can do wonders... ???

Trimming is important -- if the ends are unhealthy, your hair is more likely to tangle and just look thinner/unhealthy.

Yasmin (serpentine.org) always makes me feel better. She has lovely LONG hair, and it's pretty straight -- no crazy volume or mega curls but she still looks great...

If you don't want to use a blow dryer, hanging upside down while drying still works- it just takes longer and do you really want to do that for that long? sometimes I do, sometimes I don't... it doesn't have to be upside down, per se- I can lie on the couch with my hair flipped over my head and it helps a little, swing my head over to fluff periodically, but it's rare I have time to do that! But I'm a mom with little ones too, so it's mostly up in braids right now anyway.

for occasional use, a protein boost (either commercial or you can just use jello- Pippi Longstockings recommended an egg, if I recall ;) will work, but if it builds up it can make the hair brittle.

I like pulling a little hair from the nape of the neck up to the top of my head, along with a tiny bit of top hair to hold it, when I make little pony tails to keep hair out of my eyes (not all hair in pony tail, just front hair- except it's not front hair... um...) just pulling hair back from the sides/top makes my hair look thin, but pulling it from underneath makes it look fuller than it really is. I don't think I described that very well, but I don't know how to fix it!

For performances, I sometimes put in a 3/4 wig- looks like layers, even tho I don't do layers right now.

&... find a new hairdresser who actually 'gets' long hair.

My hair is long (at least I think it is). It hangs just below my bra band at my back. My stylist whom I've been going to for over 15 years, cuts long layers and bangs in my hair. The layers give it movement and keeps it from lying flat on my head. I don't have thick hair, but wouldn't consider it thin either. Regular trims are a must. I have my bangs done about once per month, and the rest of the length done every other month.

It's important to find a stylist who will work with your long hair. Many of them just want to chop it off. I'd ask anyone local to you who has long hair who they go to. Be very up front about not wanting the length cut off. Ask them to show you where they're going to cut before they do it.

There are volumizers you can use at the roots that may help. I can't recommend a specific one. For me, just shampooing ever other day does the trick.

My hair is about the length of my bra band right now, and I hope to be growing it longer.

When growing it out, you can't really layer it much because it slows down the process. I still have some layers, due to my hair's thickness. I talked with my new hair stylist (who is pricey but I believe is worth every dollar I spent) and he puts a few layers in so my hair is manageable. All layers are not created equally; I've had some layers (I think they literally cut straight lines in the back of my head) that looked atrocious while others look beautiful.

I find getting referrals is helpful, as well as talking to my stylist. For my hair, I noticed that my hair needs good clarifying cleaning solutions (I currently use Dr. Bronner's soap and apple cider vinegar) give my hair a lot of life and clean out whatever is weight it down. If I were you, I'd also talk to a doctor about why your hair is thinner now. It may be diet related or something else.

I stay away from layers - or at very least, am SUPER specific with the hairdresser about LOOOOONG LAYERS - i.e. the shortest layer should be absolutely no more than 3 inches shorter than the longest layer (my hair is juuuust about reaching my beltline now). This is because my hair is really thick and VERY coarse, so if I get "normal" layers I end up with puffball hair.

Gawd, I haven't been to a hairdresser in AGES now (goddamned poverty), but I do find my hair grows faster after it's been cut - so regular trimming actually helps me to grow my hair as well as keep it in good condition. I've just started using Moroccanoil - http://www.moroccanoil.com - on the ends before bed, as the ends are getting REALLY dry because of the length of time since it's last cut.

DON'T wash too regularly if you can possibly avoid it - although I know that's harder when your hair is finer. I never wash mine more than 3 times in a week, and it's much more usually no more than 2. Sounds gross, I know! Conditioner will weight your hair down and make it look more limp, so perhaps go a little more sparingly if you can - just at the ends, and finish with a cool rinse.

Do you straighten? If so, avoid it for a while and try to do it sparingly if you can - your hair regains some of it's natural volume and texure when you're not straightening the heck out of it! I still have to dry mine with a dryer - always on the warm rather than hot setting, and always with a heat protection product in it. It's just too thick to leave to dry naturally or I'd be waiting for days! I certainly do find that if I dry the rest of it first, then bend over to dry the roots upside down I get a lot more volume. Which in my case is Crystal Tipps kind of funny.

thanks for your input, ladies!

As an aside, though it was worth alot of the costs, I noticed visible hair thinning and a bit of wieght gain (not huge-like many ladies say) once I got on birth controll pills, which I recently went off of. No one says my hair is that thin-really I think I have high expectations of gorgeous natural hair, which many dancers I've seen have. Do you ladies have any tips of supplements, foods, hair treatments or styling products that are good for fine blonde hair? Do you find layers good or no? So far many close to me shockingly) have not found my cut to be too drastic. Most people don't noticw a difference from waist length to bra length-they just don't hink about hair that much! ;)

How about deep-conditioning treatments? Have a fave? What if you have fine hair? Thanks for your reply.

Another with long hair here! My hair comes to just above the belt line. I have had long hair most of my life with some exceptions of shorter hair (top of shoulder) now & then. I am lucky to have a hair stylist with experience with long hair (as she has long hair herself) but she is a drive & a half away and, I can't always afford it (coloring long hair costs $$$).

I usually let my hair air dry but will blow dry it for a special event (and not dry it completely). And, if I'm in the mood, I will flat iron it (but that's maybe once a month). My hair has also gotten thinner over the years. For years, I have always kept it one length-wouldn't let my stylist layer my hair as I had a BAD experience with a two-layered cut (she didn't do it) and took FOREVER to grow it out and to one length, so I have been leery. But I did take the chance about a year ago, and my hairdresser gave me a "slight" layered cut which one can't tell but it gave a little more body to what I have already. BTW...my hair dresser used to like to cut/layer/frame my face, and I told her after awhile that I didn't want that. I hated all those hairs that are too short to pull back and ended up hitting my face (I braid my hair for work). She still asks if I would like to have it cut that way and I politely, say no, thanks.

As far as washing my hair, I do it 2-3 times a week. I used to wash daily but getting older, my hair is also getting drier. I prefer using the Pantene 2 in 1 products (shampoo and conditioner in one), but about once a week to 10 days, I use two separate products so I can do more of a "deep conditioning." I use Pureology for this. I used a volumizing 2 in 1 product, but it really dried my hair more so I eventually threw it out.

so im gunna watch this too. But my hair has been growing over the years and ive never found layers hurtful to its growth, hell half the time it grows so fast im like wtf happened to my layers lol. i used to have nice wavy full hair but as its been growing the weight has been making it straight and dead.

my old hairstylst wouldnt do much w it except some long layers (which didnt help it needed them higher) so I am going to a new one (who did an amazinnnnnnng dye job so i have high hopes)

Ill keep you ladies updated too ;)

i know this sounds silly but ive found getting my hair done by someone who has long hair ends up with less disapointment then one who has short hair and chops too much

I helped a friend of mine grow her hair from shoulder to waist length. She handled her hair carefully and wore it in sock rollers (like rag rollers, but socks, lol) for a day and a night and had gorgeous curl from that. She had fine hair with medium thickness (and bangs).

If I remember correctly she used Folicure products from time to time.

We trimmed the ends of her hair into the long layers everyone describes here. They are quite helpful for movement when worn straight.

I'm growing my hair out from a pixie, ugh. Shoulder length is loooooong to me.....

My hair is below my bra strap and fine. Lots of hair, just very fine. I use Mane and Tail shampoo and conditioner a cople of times a week. More often if I am working out.

For volume, I do a couple of things. I finger dry, i.e. run my fingers through my hair as it drys. this seems to help lift it away from my scalp. I wash my hair at night before I go to bed. Once again, I don't know if this actually makes any difference, but it does seem to have more lift in the morning when I do this.

I don't use a lot of heat or styling products. It has been suggested that I use a scalp stimulating / hair thickening shampoo a couple times a week. I also take a really good multi vit. Some people take prenatals. Some times I will use big curlers to help raise the roots away from my head. But for performances, I use a hair piece to add hair. I own three and will probably own more. hey, we're belly dancers! Let's have fun!

{{{HUGS}}}

The conditioner you use can make a big difference in how flat your hair looks, even if you do everything else the same. I wash my hair every day, and I'm always experimenting with conditioners to find a balance between having enough moisturizer and detangler without being too heavy. As an experiment, I tried the Dove intensive-formula conditioner that was on sale, and it gave the effect of reducing my hair volume by 50%. Usually I can tolerate the heavier formulas because of the daily washing, but I won't buy this one again! At the moment I'm using Renpure Organics moisturizing formula. I wouldn't say it's the perfect product, but it's definitely better than the Dove.

I've had hair between thigh and calf-length for years now, and have come to accept that with that much weight it's never going to be particularly voluminous on top. When I put it up I can use some rats to give some height/volume, but otherwise very long hair is not going to be very full on top unless you abuse the hairspray (and even then the weight would pull it down fairly quickly I'd think).

I used to have my hair all one length, but cut in sideswept bangs several years ago and haven't looked back. Before that I tried chin-length chunks on either side.

I wash my hair once a week, usually with conditioner-only (I use Giovanni brand), and shampoo maybe once a month. The conditioner cleans without drying; if you're trying to reduce the frequency of your shampoos it's a good idea to try alternating shampoos with conditioner-only washes. I've found that since I reduced my shampooing (and switched to an SLS-free shampoo) my split ends have been drastically reduced. Don't be discouraged if your conditioner doesn't clean well; some are useless for cleaning, others work great.

Mine is down to my lower back/top of my butt, recovering from when I went from that same length to chin length in 2006 I believe. I want mine to get as long as Maral's, but not sure it will. I have a lot of hair, and very,very fine. It is like cobwebs after I brush it, heh. It needs a trim very badly due to lots of split ends, but I am terrified of a bad hair stylist that will cut off too much. Also they tend to charge the same for a trim as they do an actual hair cut, which I think is appalling. I'm in the same boat as you though. I want my hair long and healthy. I just found out my shampoo has SLS in it, so I need to find an alternative and hopefully that will help the split end issue. Getting enough vitamins will probably help solve the hair health issue. On a hooping forum, a lady recommended using baking soda as shampoo, and that she only shampooed once a week when using it.

Hope this helps :)

I don't think I read anyone mentioning Biotin as a supplement!! It's worked for everyone I know... throw some Biotin (1 - 2,000 mcg) and watch what it does for your hair AND nails. I have been very bad to my hair... cutting, dying, growing, dying, highlights, cutting, growing, blonde, black, back to blonde... Biotin has saved me from being bald!! It helps with shine, body and length.

Fine hair is very difficult to have long, but here are some suggestions:

Regular trims are a must; every 6 weeks at least. Long hair is really not sexy when it is frizzy from split ends, in fact it is really ugly.

Long layers can help with volume, but if the layers are cut too short then the hair can look even thinner than it is. And having an excellent cut is important; after 6 weeks if the cut looks shaggy and unkempt then it wasn't a very good cut to begin with.

Condition every time you shampoo. Deep condition at least once per week.

Avoid pony tails and tight elastics that can break the hair

Take it easy on your hair; comb out tangles starting at the bottom of the hair and work up towards the scalp. Use a nice wide-tooth comb that glides easily to comb out wet hair. Use a natural bristle round brush to style with your blowdryer; brush with a natural bristle paddle brush when dry. I also like the wooden brushes with the wide wooden teeth; they feel so nice on the scalp.

Use protein/volumnizing shampoos, conditioners and styling products. I like Sebastien's Penetrait shampoo, conditioner and masque, Wayne Gund's Protein Reconstructor and S Factor's Volumnizing Spray for styling. Note that most styling products require heat to activate them, which can also damage the hair, so try to give your hair a break once in a while from styling too.

How you style is important; you want to ensure that when building your style with your blow dryer that you work in layers, starting with the bottom layer. Ensure to lift and dry the root with your brush to build volume.

Colour your hair; the colour swells the hair shaft and makes your hair a bit thicker. When you retouch the colour have the ends glossed in the same colour for a refresh and all over shine, (my hair designer uses ISO colour line, love it).

Your hair will reflect how you are feeling so sleep, diet, exercise, hydration, medicines and such will affect the health and strength of your hair.

Accept the fact that you may not be able to have your hair as long as you would if it were a thicker texture. Fine hair just does not have enough thickness to be long and voluminous on it's own; you have to really work at it. I know because I have very fine hair myself that I am trying to grow past my shoulders.

I know that visiting the salon and using professional product is costly. But if you happen to be near a hairstyling school, this is a great place to have your hair done for less. Last time I was at Winners I noticed there were many professional products being sold at wholesale/cost price, so if you do some research, you can have great hair on a budget.

Good luck!

Ashryna, I trim my own hair; just grab sections and snip. You can also try 'dusting' where you carry little super-sharp scissors and just trim off split ends when you see them; great for when you're on the bus or watching TV or otherwise just sitting around.

Oil is also essential, especially in the winter when hair gets really dry. I use coconut or jojoba oil; just a little rubbed between my palms and worked through the length.

NOTE: the following comments are mostly with reference to growing hair long; different care methods are needed for 'normal' lengths vs. very long.

I know that most stylists will tell you to get trims frequently (e.g. every 6 weeks), and that does make sense for shorter (above bra-strap) hairstyles where you're doing a lot of heat-styling and other damaging treatments, but for those who are seriously trying to grow their hair long, trimming every six weeks would mean effectively cancelling out any new growth. If you're treating your hair gently and not damaging it, not washing too often, keeping the ends from drying out, dusting any split ends you do see etc, you shouldn't have to go for a trim very often at all. I do an actual trim maybe twice a year; basically only when my ends start to look straggly.

Re: colouring: Most commercial haircolours contain harsh chemicals that actually damage the hair (as many of them lighten as they colour); they do give a surface gloss but the damage is still there underneath. Again, if you're not actively trying to get your hair as long as possible and just want the volume and colour, then this isn't so much of an issue.

I haven't been to a salon in years, and have hardly any split ends. So it is possible to have very long and healthy hair while eschewing the standard hair-care system, but you basically have to choose between regular heat-styling and chemical colouring vs. length.

HOWEVER! In my experience hair any longer than hipbone-length creates real problems when bellydancing, as it tangles in the belt decorations. I am actually seriously considering cutting my hair to at least butt-length for this reason, as I can never dance with it down.

Originally Posted by Maral

HOWEVER! In my experience hair any longer than hipbone-length creates real problems when bellydancing, as it tangles in the belt decorations. I am actually seriously considering cutting my hair to at least butt-length for this reason, as I can never dance with it down.

When my hair was mid-thigh length, I used to gather the hair into a ponytail, braid it, and loop the end of the braid(s) back into the ponytail elastic to get it up and out of the way while I danced. If you use hair-safe elastics, this is actually not that rough on the strands. I found it to be less damaging than curling it and loading it with product to keep the curls from falling--I really did have a lot of problems with tangles and hair getting caught/pulled out when I wore it that way.

One other thing about growing long hair longer: I think a lot of people (not just dancers--e.g., white, middle-aged alterna-dudes) undermine the look of their hair by trying to grow it as long as possible, no matter how thin it gets, creating the length equivalent of a comb-over. When the hair reaches a length where it starts tapering into wispy, thin strings (it's a different point for each person, and it may change over your lifetime), this length or a little shorter is usually where it looks best rounded or squared off for your "maximum" style. Sometimes it's better to admit that a little less length looking thick and healthy higher up is better than pushing a scrawny, chopstick-diameter hank down as far as it will grow. When I was 15 years younger, I could get my length past my hips and still have nice, full ends, but now, it looks better when I concede at the bra band. The number of strands on your head doesn't change with a haircut, but having wan, little straggles at the bottom can make your hair look thinner than it needs to. Even Crystal Gayle trimmed up over the years.

Good advice, Tourbeau! Rounded or squared off nicely looks better than the wispy rat tail.

Re: coloring, an alternative is to use henna. It can be mixed with indigo to get brown or black, or alum or cassia to get blonde shades, or straight up red. I used to have belt-length brown hair that was very damaged from perms and styling, but I now have waist-length dark auburn hair that feels glossy, smooth and thick.
A year or so ago I had my stylist add bangs and cut in long layers. At age 43, I wanted to cover some forehead wrinkles, and also my hair is a little thinner in front than it used to be. I like the layers when I dance. I keep the hair shorter than belt length to keep from tangling when I dance.

Originally Posted by Elianae

...Do you ladies have any tips of supplements, foods, hair treatments or styling products that are good for fine blonde hair? Do you find layers good or no? ...

How about deep-conditioning treatments? Have a fave? What if you have fine hair? Thanks for your reply.

I have fine hair and have had waist long hair or nearly waist long for a good half of my life.

Supplements? Pregnancy multivitamins do wonders but you would want to check with your Dr first. I have never tried any others.

Styling products? With that I always buy quality. Hair sprays are always those really light ones that can be brushed out, anything else weighs down the hair or looks really funny. Mousses? I've never been particularly attached to any brand I just dont skimp on the quality. It also must be applied when the hair is damp if not outright wet or it goes on too thick and looks awful. Shampoos and conditioners need to leave as little residue as possible or it just adds to the weight and flattens it.

Layers just don't work for my fine hair, it just makes it look thinner.

For a deep conditioning I haven't found anything better then simple coconut oil. I'll just work it in, let it soak in for a couple of hours and wash it out.

I trim it every 4 months and it makes a huge difference in how thick it looks and keeping it healthy. Finding a hair dresser who specializes in long hair is a must though! One who knows how to work on fine hair is an even bigger bonus. Personally I won't go to one who doesn't have the same type of hair I do. I've had much better results since making that rule. (If my currant hair dresser moved I would probably panic.) Currently when I get a trim all she takes off is 1/8th to 1/4 of an inch. That is all it needs though.

Now to get volume, I know four techniques.

1. One is the usual blowdrying upside down. If I really want results I'll put a little mousse in on the roots first. If I really need it to stay I'll lightly hairspray after it's dry before flipping back over. I hate using blowdryers or hair products too though so I do that as rarely as possible.
2. Second is hot curlers. The longer my hair is the more of those it takes though and when it takes me 2 hours to put in I just don't do it.
3. Third is putting my hair up in rags overnight. This works like a charm and gives even better curls then the hot curlers do but I hate the headaches I get from it.
4. Last and the one I use the most often is putting my hair up on the top of my head either overnight or during the day in a bun. The hair needs to be slightly damp but not wet and when I say on top of my head I mean on top. Not only does it dry "upside down" but I get nice gentle curls from the twist.

I hope that helps a little. Best of luck.

great stuff ladies! Thanks for the supplement/product info!~ It seemed like my hair got thinner once I went on hormonal birth control-happen to anyone else? I was told that could be a side effect. I think that coupled with sub-par nutrition and a couple lousy, over-layered trims did the damage.

I also have fine, thin, long hair. (plus I'm over 40 so I'm breakng like 3 hair laws!).

This is all great advice.

I'll just add that your hair is only as thick as it is. Short of eliminating/minimizing damaging habits and sources of breakage (heat styling, backcombing, brushing to untangle, ripping through wet tangles, ponytails, etc), there is little you can do with long hair to volumize it. There is no secret cut or product that will do all that much.

For stage hair, I do a couple of things:

First, I use some rag rollers called "snap n go" from Sally Beauty. I generally start with 98% dry hair, dampen with a bit of styling lotion, and spiral roll my hair, leaving about 1-2 inches of ends sticking out of the rollers (for a tousled, natural look). Lots of freezing hairspray, but only for performances, not everyday.

Second, I use clip-in human hair extensions. Mine no longer extend the length of my hair, because my hair is as long, but they double the volume. If I'm going wavy/curly, I usually rag roll the extensions a day or two before a performance so my rag rollers will be free the day of for my real hair.

For everyday styling, seriously, seriously lose the curling irons and flat irons all together. If you blowdry use a cool or warm (not hot) setting). If you have any amount of natural wave or curl at all to your hair, learn to coax it out more. Google "hair plopping" on youtube for some ideas. My hair is only barely wavy but I can coax a bit more out of it by plopping. Plopping and drying it upside down with a barely warm diffuser is my general everyday styling method.

i love BIG hair..( mine is all one length, thick, but wavy ).i wish humid came in a can !..i get my hair thicker by washing upside down in kitchen sink....the folicals bend ....then a straight cold rince off of the olive oil conditioner...wrap in a towel turban...wait 5 min. COMB out with wide tooth comb...and there you are, full and thick . both shampoo /conditioner are a formula from edgar cayce.

Originally Posted by ssipes

There is no secret cut or product that will do all that much.

Not if you want to be true to your head. If nature refuses to cooperate, you can always buy wigs and weaves, though. I guess that's another point: while the media is busy Photoshopping every skin and figure imperfection out of celebrities, they're also working over the hair, and some of what we're jealous of isn't real. There's a reason why you don't see a lot of older female celebrities with thinning hair--many of them are getting help, either in the salon or on the computer.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

Not if you want to be true to your head. If nature refuses to cooperate, you can always buy wigs and weaves, though. I guess that's another point: while the media is busy Photoshopping every skin and figure imperfection out of celebrities, they're also working over the hair, and some of what we're jealous of isn't real. There's a reason why you don't see a lot of older female celebrities with thinning hair--many of them are getting help, either in the salon or on the computer.

you have brought up a great point !..over working is not good..i really understood why britiany shaved her head.i could not do all that stuff glued on etc. either.
if you watch weekly shows like AI or DWTS..the hosts always have a new doo...it cant not help the health of hair! i watched a hot iron being used once in shock!
yeah..dont envy bad habits!

Originally Posted by Elianae

great stuff ladies! Thanks for the supplement/product info!~ It seemed like my hair got thinner once I went on hormonal birth control-happen to anyone else? I was told that could be a side effect. I think that coupled with sub-par nutrition and a couple lousy, over-layered trims did the damage.

Seasonique caused me to lose hair. I found out after research that it is high in male androgens that promote baldness. I went back to Yasmin, which has hair retention factors because it is high in estrogen. Estrogen is why women generally don't get lose hair as much as men do. I detailed in another thread what all I'm doing to get my hair back, and it's working.

I think if I had thinner hair than what mine normally is, I'd do like Ansuya and wear those big ornate head pieces. They look beautifully exotic and are so eye-catching, people aren't going to notice if your hair is on the thin side. Plus they push all your hair back together, and I suspect that adds to the illusion it's thicker.

My hair is only a little below the bra strap at the moment, but I'm trying to grow it really long. I find that one way to make it look big and amazing is to wash with lots of conditioner, then rub lots of coconut oil through the hair while it's damp, then put it into one or two tight french braids. If it stays in the braids til it's dry (overnight at least, sometimes a day or so) then when I take it out I have lovely glossy waves that stay put for ages. I love coconut oil very much.

I second coconut oil. Since the air is sooo dry I melted some and put it in my shampoo and conditioner. If I take a bath before bed I rub it into my scalp (feels good and it controls dandruff if you have it *wink*). Though I color my hair with drugstore dyes it's overall condition is good. Albeit, my hair is short but my hair strands are actually stronger and winter flyaway hair is virtually eliminated.

not just dancers--e.g., white, middle-aged alterna-dudes

What about white, middle-aged alterna-dudes who dance?

My hair is very fine - and its bra strap length more or less (not that I wear one! ). I don't know what color the OP's hair is, or what color she wants it to be - but no-one has mentioned Henna yet. One of my teachers/dance sisters Hennas my hair (and hers!) and it really helps volume-ize and strengthen it. Not to mention covering the gradual increase of middle-aged grey...