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Thread: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?




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    Official BHUZzer bellydancerinfo's Avatar
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    HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    This thread was a costuming thread. It is no longer.

    Its a good read:
    The Ancient Art of Keeping Your Mouth Shut
    http://www.gildedserpent.com/art43/n...istsilence.htm
    Last edited by bellydancerinfo; 04-24-2011 at 08:51 PM.
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    Mega BHUZzer Lesedi's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    I don't have any pictures, but I made one a long time ago. I started with a baseball cap, cut the "bill" off, stiffened the cap with interfacing, sewed my satin fabric scraps onto it to look like it was wrapped fabric, and then stuffed it full of batting. It was a pretty cheap way of making a big sultan turban and looked good. I cut out most the fabric to look like very elongated ovals to get that wrapped look.
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    Mega BHUZzer Lesedi's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    Alternatively, I guess you could make your own cap with interfacing and cotton instead of using an old baseball cap.
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    Ultimate BHUZzer dunyah's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    I have one that someone gave my husband as a gag gift. We will probably never use it. It is gold-on-gold striped fabric over a stiff hat about 6 inches tall at the tallest point, and an additional 4 inches or so for the pleated crest thingy. The jewel on the front is plastic, but overall it's quite well made.

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    Ultimate BHUZzer dunyah's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    Forgot to add - it is in like-new condition, I don't think it has ever been worn for longer than a minute or two. I would have to speak to my husband first, but would probably sell it for $25 + shipping. Let me know if you are interested.
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    Official BHUZzer Ariadne_Eleni's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    How about tying one like this?


    If you use a thicker fabric it should end up nice and bulky. Add a few danglies and stuff and you have a real decorative piece. If you don't want to do it more then once you can always wind it onto a skullcap and then sew and/or glue it to the cap.


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    Official BHUZzer bellydancerinfo's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    deleted.
    Last edited by bellydancerinfo; 04-24-2011 at 01:39 PM.
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    Ultimate BHUZzer Tourbeau's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    I would recommend against following the instructions in the man's video too closely. The Sikh turban (dastar) is a specific religious symbol that commands respect, unlike a theatrical prop. However, you could probably modify the general style of wrapping the turban in the video and tack it onto a cap base as you worked. If you really wanted to be sloppy you could make fewer wraps and stick some quilt batting or a cut-up beach towel into the layers to bulk it up, and just hot glue as you're working (on a wig form--don't hot glue on an actual head, of course!).

    The BloodMoonBellyDance channel on YouTube has some tutorials for making Tribal-style turbans. Here are two other variations you could adapt for a cap base.



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    Official BHUZzer Ariadne_Eleni's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tourbeau View Post
    I would recommend against following the instructions in the man's video too closely. The Sikh turban (dastar) is a specific religious symbol that commands respect, unlike a theatrical prop. However, you could probably modify the general style of wrapping the turban in the video and tack it onto a cap base as you worked.
    That is true, I admit I picked that one just because the instructions were so clear and didn't think of that.

    Now I have known people to make their own for theatrical uses by making a padded tube of fabric and wrapping it around a matching skullcap three times in the same crisscross pattern though. The tube was then sewn on and some type of decorative pin added. You could even take a square of fabric and pleat it then drape it over the edge somewhere for a little extra decoration. That way you can make them as puffy and over the top as you like.


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    Official BHUZzer Najma's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesedi View Post
    Alternatively, I guess you could make your own cap with interfacing and cotton instead of using an old baseball cap.
    I used a painter's cap from Lowe's (cheap) and stiffened it with Stiffy to make the base.


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    Advanced BHUZzer caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    Oh no.. I hope that 'Ahab the Arab' thread didnt give anyone dodgy ideas.

    My advice is avoid pantomine and belly dance if you ever wish to be taken even a tincy bit seriously... be aware that many of the public already find this dance a mockery..do dancers really need to add to that? do we really need to reinforce negative stereotypes? and for what... a laugh?

    I am so glad that this sort of activity is almost extinct in the UK..sure it probably still happens, but any teacher who takes themselves even half seriously would not accomodate this sort of practice.
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    Official BHUZzer bellydancerinfo's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

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    Last edited by bellydancerinfo; 04-24-2011 at 01:40 PM.
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    Advanced BHUZzer caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    I am sorry if what I said appears 'negative' to you.. but this 'I would love a big cheesy sultans turban' appeared negative to me.

    At the end of the day, this is a forum and I am giving my point of view, accept or reject at your will.

    Perhaps it may have been useful to reword your initial post and provide some context?.. so it didnt sound like just a laugh at the expense of what I consider to be an overdone racial stereotype.
    Last edited by caroline_afifi; 04-23-2011 at 10:00 AM.


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    Master BHUZzer ozma's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by bellydancerinfo View Post
    Caroline it sounds like you are speaking from a negative position without taking time to be aware of what I do. It also seems you are going off topic from this costuming tread and offering a negative opinion of what I am going to be performing when I am in a costuming thread asking for sewing instruction. I welcome everyone to support you in all your creative pursuits and welcome you to be supportive of mine.
    I hope being supportive of everyone's creative endeavors doesn't negate the ability to question those endeavors. I think that sometimes a well placed eyebrow-raise and a "do you really think that's a good idea?" to a dancer before she follows through on an idea is a more desirable support system than everyone standing back for fear of offending or importuning...although that is not always done best in public in full forum eye shot and it is a tricky balance to find.

    I assume, by the length of your reply, that you are aware of the potential issues surrounding guy-wearing-turban comedy and have thought through them long and hard before deciding to go for it... and are ready for possible negative reactions.

    I have nothing to add to how to make the item, I hope that doesn't make my comment too off-topic.
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    deleted.
    Last edited by bellydancerinfo; 04-24-2011 at 01:40 PM.
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  16. #16
    lenaregina
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    EFF this . I came to defend a dear friend and people went crazy.
    Last edited by lenaregina; 04-24-2011 at 02:23 PM.


  17. #17
    Advanced BHUZzer caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by lenaregina View Post
    Life is too effing short to get your panties wadded up in your spandex skirt.
    So why are you???


  18. #18
    Advanced BHUZzer caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    [[B]QUOTE=lenaregina;861006]I have one like the pic Dunyah posted. Got it at an Indian store for $14. Mine has a bunch of pearls on it. You can probably find one at an Indian/Paki store.
    BTW, Just a word of advice to you, given that this is an international forum you might wish to know that what you wrote above is a criminal offence in the UK. It is considered extremely racist and deeply offensive.. so you would be in trouble with the real Police too.


  19. #19
    Master BHUZzer ozma's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by lenaregina View Post

    I hate belly dance police. As long as people aren't stripping off their costumes, then what is the harm of creating a theatrical experience and having fun?
    For me to caution against buying a pagri at an Indian/Pakistani store to use for comedic intent is not about being belly dance police taking away fun times...it's about being careful about using items that may convey meaning to other cultures/countries/religions.

    Pagri (Indian and Pakistani headpieces like the one above) are also used for various ceremonies about honor, self respect, courage and spirituality, They can mark rites-of-passage or be symbols of rank, status, and such.

    I don't know enough about the meanings to speak about if using them for ha-ha-funtimes on stage is offensive or not.

    Perhaps a good rule of thumb in stores like that is (provided they are staffed by people within that given culture/religion/whatnot) to explain what you plan to use the item for and ask if that is appropriate. If you feel hesitant about asking or explaining....well, that's your first clue.
    Last edited by ozma; 04-24-2011 at 08:41 AM.


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    Master BHUZzer ozma's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?



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    Official BHUZzer Teophania's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by ozma View Post
    For me to caution against buying a pagri at an Indian/Pakistani store to use for comedic intent is not about being belly dance police taking away fun times...it's about being careful about using items that may convey meaning to other cultures/countries/religions.

    Pagri (Indian and Pakistani headpieces like the one above) are also used for various ceremonies about honor, self respect, courage and spirituality, They can mark rites-of-passage or be symbols of rank, status, and such.

    I don't know enough about the meanings to speak about if using them for ha-ha-funtimes on stage is offensive or not.

    Perhaps a good rule of thumb in stores like that is (provided they are staffed by people within that given culture/religion/whatnot) to explain what you plan to use the item for and ask if that is appropriate. [snip]
    I like Ozma's suggestion to ask. Sarah, I'm impressed by the research you put into your costumes and the theatrical processes you undertake. I know that you've got the smarts and determination to create a successful, appropriate theatrical presentation. There's a good chance we're just preaching to the choir here, but for passers-by.....

    Drive-by musing: I have an example to offer, that's not quite as loaded with overtones of honor and religion so may be easier to discuss.

    Preamble: I am Canadian. We are the brunt of many, many jokes in many cultures, though not usually the brunt of hatred so this is a pretty simple example. I'm usually fine with the teasing, though have no patience for people who actually cannot hold a conversation with me because they are too busy telling me about my culture/country or making jokes.


    A common joke prop is the use of denim to characterize a character as Canadian or mock them as being similar to a Canadian. Wearing a jean jacket with jean trousers is often called the "Canadian tuxedo". [Btw, I grew up in rural areas, and this is quite uncommon and if worn, worn only in work environments where denim is safer than other fabrics. It's not a fashion statement.]

    I can laugh at the Canadian tuxedo if used in a comedic setting. It doesn't impress me, it doesn't make me feel good, it kind of annoys me, it bothers me because it's usually the wrong kind of denim worn improperly and therefore is based on ignorance.... but I can laugh at it.

    So in that sense, it's "okay". But I'm much more impressed with other kinds of humor. There are other ways to present someone as funny, unstylish, in an odd setting, or other situations that create comedic tension.

    I might laugh at something well-presented in which a character wears a sultan hat (preferably if it was a self-aware nod to those old movie characters). I'd probably laugh harder at something that had a generic male buffoon character whose buffoonery was his own invention/personality, not presented as a universal characteristic of an ethnic group.
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  22. #22
    Advanced BHUZzer CalgaryBibi's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by ozma View Post
    For me to caution against buying a pagri at an Indian/Pakistani store to use for comedic intent is not about being belly dance police taking away fun times...it's about being careful about using items that may convey meaning to other cultures/countries/religions.

    Pagri (Indian and Pakistani headpieces like the one above) are also used for various ceremonies about honor, self respect, courage and spirituality, They can mark rites-of-passage or be symbols of rank, status, and such.

    I don't know enough about the meanings to speak about if using them for ha-ha-funtimes on stage is offensive or not.

    Perhaps a good rule of thumb in stores like that is (provided they are staffed by people within that given culture/religion/whatnot) to explain what you plan to use the item for and ask if that is appropriate. If you feel hesitant about asking or explaining....well, that's your first clue.
    Word.

    It's called "cultural appropriation." As a Cree person, and one who teaches Native Studies, this is an issue near and dear to my heart. Many of the symbols of First Nations culture (including the regalia worn for dance (note: they are not "costumes", per se)) have a cultural or spiritual significance, and it is inappropriate to use them as mere decoration, or for commercial advertising purposes, or to poke fun at our culture. In fact, while I think it's generally wise to think twice before poking fun at someone else's culture. Leave that for the people of that culture, if they see fit to do so. (It's like, I can say what I'd like about my family, but if anybody else does, they'd better watch out.)

    Even if the items don't have spiritual significance, I hesitate at the idea of perpetuating stereotypes--including stereotypes that inaccurately portray the dress, etc. of another culture. It's a form of racism.

    So, I think you make an excellent point.
    Last edited by CalgaryBibi; 04-24-2011 at 10:55 AM.
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    Advanced BHUZzer CalgaryBibi's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by lenaregina View Post
    You can probably find one at an Indian/Paki store.
    I think the use of the term, "Paki", speaks volumes.
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    Official BHUZzer Ariadne_Eleni's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    Guys, Sarah already said she is basing the costuming on what she saw done in Istanbul. Her productions are highly theatrical as anyone should know. I am sure that she is more then capable of making appropriate decisions for the type of work she does.

    Quote Originally Posted by caroline_afifi View Post
    BTW, Just a word of advice to you, given that this is an international forum you might wish to know that what you wrote above is a criminal offence in the UK. It is considered extremely racist and deeply offensive.. so you would be in trouble with the real Police too.
    ...and in the UK you can't buy a sword for bellydancing either. I'm glad I live in a country without the UK's level of big brother/thought police.

    BTW, I had to look up the "slur" you just accused lenaregina of using and until CalgaryBibi's post couldn't even figure out what you had been offended by. Evidently it is slang in the UK and Canada, not the US, and I had never heard it used as anything other then an abbreviation. Since lenaregina is also not from the UK/Canada you could easily be assuming something that is not true. As you say it is an international forum and when differences in language pop up giving someone the benefit of doubt should be a default. Just like trying to be respectful of others cultures.
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  25. #25
    Advanced BHUZzer CalgaryBibi's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by AriadneBarronmore View Post
    Guys, Sarah already said she is basing the costuming on what she saw done in Istanbul. Her productions are highly theatrical as anyone should know. I am sure that she is more then capable of making appropriate decisions for the type of work she does.

    BTW, I had to look up the "slur" you just accused lenaregina of using and until CalgaryBibi's post couldn't even figure out what you had been offended by. Evidently it is slang in the UK and Canada, not the US, and I had never heard it used as anything other then an abbreviation. Since lenaregina is also not from the UK/Canada you could easily be assuming something that is not true. As you say it is an international forum and when differences in language pop up giving someone the benefit of doubt should be a default. Just like trying to be respectful of others cultures.
    You'll note that I didn't get involved in this conversation until after this (disrespectful, IMO) comment was made: "Life is too effing short to get your panties wadded up in your spandex skirt."

    I'm not assuming that Sarah isn't planning to use a turban in a respectful manner. I'm responding to the idea that there's something wrong with a conversation about the potential risks/offense involved.

    As for the use of the term "Paki" not being a slur universally, I can accept that the person who used the term was not aware that it can be an offensive term, and, therefore, I was wrong in making assumptions about her use of it. Thank you for pointing that out. However, now that people on these forums are aware that it is a racial slur in some countries, I hope they will be more careful about using it. I know that I would hesitate to use a term that I know to be a racial slur in some places. So, now you know. smile

    As someone from a group that has had to fight very hard, and is still fighting, for respectful treatment from mainstream society, I have trouble when people refuse to hear concerns about stereotyping, etc., and make defensive accusations about political correctness, thought police, panties in a twist, etc. There is nothing wrong with being respectful of others, and I refuse to accept that I have to be quiet about these issues.
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    Official BHUZzer lplmuk's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by caroline_afifi View Post
    BTW, Just a word of advice to you, given that this is an international forum you might wish to know that what you wrote above is a criminal offence in the UK. It is considered extremely racist and deeply offensive.. so you would be in trouble with the real Police too.
    If the term is not considered offensive in the USA,it's high time it is. There is enough said about the use of the N word (and quite rightly so) so why not consider wether ir not those of Pakistani origin might be offended.

    As to sultan's turbans, unless they are used to illustrate Hollywood costumes or Pantomine, I do wonder what place they have in a performance of belly dance unless it was used very tongue in cheek or very skilfully in pardody. I am sure that someone like Asmahan could carry off all kinds of cheese but then hers would be Stilton not plastic and extruded from a tube.

    And note to some: we are entitled despite not being from the USA,to our opinion and warning it may differ.

    Note: you can get hold of dance swords with perfect ease here in theUK. Our laws sometimes being "an ass" are often interpreted by the powers that be wth common sense. Lizajuk
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    Official BHUZzer lplmuk's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    ...and in the UK you can't buy a sword for bellydancing either. I'm glad I live in a country without the UK's level of big brother/thought police.

    Dear me. what have we done to get such grief from you ? Whatever happened to the special relationship..is it cooling

    And don't worry about not wanting to live here, plenty of others do want to.
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    Official BHUZzer Ariadne_Eleni's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by lplmuk View Post
    Dear me. what have we done to get such grief from you ? Whatever happened to the special relationship..is it cooling
    Don't worry, the UK will always have a special place in my heart (even if I don't want to live there).


  29. #29
    Official BHUZzer bellydancerinfo's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    deleted.
    Last edited by bellydancerinfo; 04-24-2011 at 01:40 PM.
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    Ultimate BHUZzer steffib's Avatar
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    Re: HOW DO you make a SULTAN's TURBAN?

    Whether an expression about related to an ethnic group is not acceptable or even illegal depends so much on where one lives. For example, in Germany, the display of a swastika and many forms of esp. anti-semitic speech are illegal; in the US, the same expressions may raise an eyebrow, but are well within the law and often within the socially acceptable range of expression. Does that make either country better? In my opinion, no - every culture has elements that one may find objectionable, and most of us living in the West have the great luxury of being able to choose where we feel most happy.

    And, going back OT: maybe it could be a good idea to take the US v. UK discussion from the costuming to the off-topic area of Bhuz?

    As for the turban and its role to ME dance: The so-called sultan act (incl. the overstuffed turban and poking fun at a willing, cooperative audience member) is a traditional element of Vintage Oriental dance in the US. Likewise, from what I was taught, the sultan act is not unheard of in Turkish oriental dance, but would be an inappropriate choice for an Egyptian performance.
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