Thread: Alternatives to silk veils?

Hi everyone,

I'm pretty sure I saw a thread like this somewhere not too long ago, but I can't seem to find it anymore So I'll ask again.

Anyway, I've been thinking about trying out veils for quite a while now, although I used to not be a big fan for a long while. Don't know what changed, but now I want a veil!

I've been looking at Fairy Cove silks, but they're real silk, which I won't buy. Are there alternatives to silk? What other fabrics for veils are there? I think I've heard of chiffon and organza, but I don't know much about veils, so I could really do with some advice. Is there something like artificial silk?

I'd be happy if you could help me out

There is synthetic "habotai" available which is hard to distinguish from real silk, but the weight is similar to an 8-12 momme silk rather than the 5-6 momme very light silk that many dance veils are made with. Definitely good for veil work, but it behaves differently than the ultra-light silk. I actually have a gorgeous magenta faux silk I offered for sale a while back that didn't sell, and there's a photo. Will try to find that link.

Although I use silk veils, I also really love iridescent (iridescent in particular) organza veils. Again the way they behave is not the same as light silk but they're fabulous in their own way. And organza is a fabric that does not need hemming and can be (actually should be) cut to size simply by tearing it. You cut a little notch in the edge and then just rip. This gives a nice straight edge that doesn't un-ravel. And you can do this in either direction on the fabric, so if you have bought a 60" wide fabric and you want to narrow it down to 45 or 50, you can rip it the long way.

Oh and there's also what's called "mirror" organza. Solid colors, very sheer and also highly reflective.

Rosette

I couldn't find my old Swap Meet post, but you can see a photo ("orchid/magenta faux silk") in this album:

http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/j...%20for%20sale/)

Originally Posted by Kjesta

Hi everyone,

I'm pretty sure I saw a thread like this somewhere not too long ago, but I can't seem to find it anymore So I'll ask again.

Anyway, I've been thinking about trying out veils for quite a while now, although I used to not be a big fan for a long while. Don't know what changed, but now I want a veil!

I've been looking at Fairy Cove silks, but they're real silk, which I won't buy. Are there alternatives to silk? What other fabrics for veils are there? I think I've heard of chiffon and organza, but I don't know much about veils, so I could really do with some advice. Is there something like artificial silk?

I'd be happy if you could help me out

just be aware that terms like chiffon, organza, satin, etc. refer to the type of weave of the fabric, not to what it is made of.

Chiffon can be made of sik, polyester, or rayon. Organza and satin can be made of silk or polyester.

I think a very light rayon chiffon would come the closest to moving like silk. I don't know of any sources for it though.

Of course you're right, Ssipes, organza can be silk. The stuff I use, and was describing above, is polyester.

And come to think of it I do have one very light 3 yard chiffon veil that's really quite nice and sheer and floaty, and it has a tiny tag in one corner that says it's rayon. Unfortunately though I came by it second hand and so I don't know what vendor sells them.

Rosette

I am curious to know why you won't buy real silk, if you don't mind revealing that.

Moondance sells Acrylic veils that they compare to silk. I've never tried them, but they might be worth a shot.

Moondance, Bellydance

Originally Posted by tigerb

I am curious to know why you won't buy real silk, if you don't mind revealing that.

I'm not Kjesta (and certainly am not so presumptuous to guess her reasons!), but FYI I know a couple of folks who won't wear or use silk as part of being vegan.

Monica is correct, vegan dancers (such as myself and I believe Kjesta as well) tend not to use silk due to the way it is manufactured.

Kjesta, there are many options available for dancers who choose not to use silk many of which were mentioned above. I keep several veils made from a wide variety of fabrics on hand so that I have options based on what I plan on using the veil for. For single veil I like polyester chiffon and the metallic chiffon that Andalee posted. Those are both good for Vintage Oriental and American style of veil dancing. I also like polyester organza because it is shiny and beautiful. It doesn't flow the same as poly chiffon so it isn't as good for wrapping. It is also a little stiffer so while it can catch air pretty well it can also tend to sink rapidly. Lame is a good choice for double veil, Aradia of LV makes custom lame 3/4 circle veil sets that are really affordable (I'm not sure how to add the accent over the e, sorry!).

For just starting out I recommend getting a polyester chiffon 3 yard rectangular veil.

I'm (politely) curious why you don't care for or choose not to use silk too?

Silk essence used to be sold at Joanns fabric, they might still carry it..easy to use, has a nice ripple.

I don't care for chiffon veils they are too flat in their movement for my tastes but that's just a preference

Love tissue lame' when it's cut into big half circles, they fly really well but don't drape fluidly

Belly Dance: All About Belly Dancing with Advice, History, Culture, Music, More! has a lot of useful info about choosing veils and fabrics :)

jes-

Most Vegans and Vegetarians object to the way most silk is harvested. And Vegans in particular don't use things with Animal by products, so even peace silk would be out for them.

{{{HUGS}}}

Thank you, everyone, for your input! I really didn't know much about all those details, never knew that chiffon and organza don't refer to the material itself! I'm not very knowledgable in this area, I'm afraid.

And I think I will go with Mintaka's advice of getting a polyester chiffon veil... For starting out I think I don't need something really exciting, I think. So far I'm only finding half-circular veils (I'm not sure if it translates like this, I'm sorry ) but I'll keep looking around!

Mintaka is right, I'm vegan I believe that even though they're only insects, the silk worms should be allowed to live. I haven't heard of peace silk yet, though, and after googling it I'm thinking about it. If the animals truly have no use for the cocoons anymore, that's worth a consideration to me.

Hi Kjesta,

Peace silk should be "Schappeseide" in German. The continuous fiber is broken by the emerging moth. The pieces are spun like other natural fibers (e.g. cotton). That gives it other properties than the "normal" silk. It's for example more uneven and thicker. I don't think it's really good for veils.

I would go for a chiffon veil made of rayon or polyester.

Originally Posted by Kjesta

And I think I will go with Mintaka's advice of getting a polyester chiffon veil... For starting out I think I don't need something really exciting, I think. So far I'm only finding half-circular veils (I'm not sure if it translates like this, I'm sorry ) but I'll keep looking around!

Your best bet here is to hit the fabric shops...
3m and a light hem (or not depending on the fabric) will do the job, AND you can read the fiber content on every bolt!

I'm not a big veil dancer, but I use poly chiffon, mostly because I like the convenience of being able to throw it in the washer after it's been dragged all over dusty floors, stepped on, and stuffed in a stinky dance bag. If you are not picky about color, it's not hard to find chiffon on remnant tables for $3-5 a yard, but it will probably fray if not hemmed.

What kind of veilwork do you plan to do? If you want a vintage American style (particularly the more capework-y look) or the Egyptian swish-and-toss, chiffon is fine, but if you want to do lots of floaty, long-hang-time moves, chiffon can be problematic. It drapes softly, but it falls quickly, and it takes practice to learn how to get it up in the air without looking like you are trying to make a very tall bed.

Kjesta, I get a lot of veils at a sari fabric shop. The fabric is really long and I just cut my veil as long as I need it to be, then take a lighter to the unfinished edges to prevent unraveling (and some don't even need that). There are a variety of fabrics there, but many work well for veils, plus the color options are awesome.

One other thing to look for when buying synthetic veil fabric is to see if it is very clingy. When you test the way it moves, don't just look at how it drapes or floats. Rub it against itself and see if it sticks or gives off a lot of static, and if it does, keep looking. Any synthetic can get shocky under the right circumstances, but some are worse than others. If you end up with a bad one, washing with fabric softener can take some of the edge off, but if it's misbehaving on the bolt, you can probably assume it won't be much better when you're dancing.

Andalee, I just had a look at that link, and this veil looks beautiful! I think I might have to save up now!



Tourbeau, I'm actually not sure - I'm not very familiar with different styles of veil dance, but I really like what Aziza does. What style would that be? (And thanks so much for all the tips and hints, I can really do with all that! Once I have money again I'll go on a trip to the next biggest city to do some fabric shopping )

Originally Posted by Kjesta

Hi everyone,

I'm pretty sure I saw a thread like this somewhere not too long ago, but I can't seem to find it anymore So I'll ask again.

Anyway, I've been thinking about trying out veils for quite a while now, although I used to not be a big fan for a long while. Don't know what changed, but now I want a veil!

I've been looking at Fairy Cove silks, but they're real silk, which I won't buy. Are there alternatives to silk? What other fabrics for veils are there? I think I've heard of chiffon and organza, but I don't know much about veils, so I could really do with some advice. Is there something like artificial silk?

I'd be happy if you could help me out

at joanns only, "silk essanse"

Originally Posted by Kjesta

Tourbeau, I'm actually not sure - I'm not very familiar with different styles of veil dance, but I really like what Aziza does. What style would that be?

Aziza does some of both, depending on what sub-style she's doing. The first performance below is pretty typical of the way that my first teacher taught American-style veil, and back then (about ten years ago), silk veils were not as common as they are now. The average dancer then probably would have been doing a routine like that with either a chiffon or a rayon-Lurex (metallic striped) veil. I'm not sure what Aziza is using, but it's not a particularly lightweight veil, and based on sheerness, chiffon would be a possibility. From personal experience, I can say that it's easier to get those high, circling moves (e.g., that sequence at 1:03) to happen attractively with a silk or silk-like veil, than a chiffon one. Chiffon takes more strength and control to get it airborne gracefully, and while you're learning, there will be a lot of flinging going on.



This is her take on the Egyptian intro style of veilwork, and I'm pretty sure she's using silk here.

I think the veil in the first Aziza clip is silk chiffon.

Choosing A Veil

Originally Posted by andalee-oriental

Moondance sells Acrylic veils that they compare to silk. I've never tried them, but they might be worth a shot.

Moondance, Bellydance

I have some of these. I personally didn't like them. They are gorgeous colors but too heavy for me. I like ultra light silk veils so these don't work for what I do.
I have 3 or 4 in different colors if you'd be interested in buying them?

I have 3 or 4 in different colors if you'd be interested in buying them?

If Kjesta passes or only wants a few I'd be interested. I have this veil in copper and love it. How much were you asking?

I prefer the silk even being a vegetarian, myself. What I like for a nice change is a polyester-chiffon veil that is a half circle and "weghted" by heavy beads and sequins. It has a nice"swing" effect and is fun to play with. It's also great for any outdoor festivals or parties where a windy day can be an issue. I hope this helps....

MahiraRaqs, I sent you a PM

Larimar, there's a reason I'm a vegan, not vegetarian It's a different mindset. Anyway, the hint with the "weights" is great, I'm the kind of person who wouldn't think of wind at all until I had to dance outside in a gale with a veil! Thanks!

I guess I'll settle for experimenting with other fabrics for now and if I do find that I absolutely, without fail, must have a silk veil, second-hand or hand-me-downs might do, although I think I'll manage. Thanks again for all the excellent advice!

Edit: Tourbeau, I'm sorry I forgot to respond - the first video is pretty much what I mean. I like that kind of playing with the veil more than the style in the second video, I really like what she does with the drapes and so on!

Any light weight fabric with a soft hand (or drape) can make a nice veil.

Two key things about fabric 1-type 2-fiber. The first describes the fabric; woven or knitted, thick or thin threads, texture is lumpy or smooth, etc. The second is the material used to make the fabric; animal, vegetable or mineral. Cotton, for example, is a natural plant fiber (2) used in all types (1) of fabric, from soft stretchy t-shirt knits to sturdy woven denim.

Rayon is made from wood pulp and is probably the closest to silk in terms of hand, which is the word for the drape or feel of the fabric, how it falls and moves. Rayon chiffon would be closest but probably hard to find.

Silk essence or faux silk is inexpensive, easy to find and comes in a wide range of colors and weights. It's stiffer than silk but close enough. The stuff from JoAnns is Ok.

I have a couple of faux silk vintage veils, they're a little heavier than silk essence but make a fantastic rippling noise, like flags flapping in the wind.

Sheer chiffon is nice. Heavier chiffons work nicely as is, but lighter ones work better with a bit of weight. This can be anything from a small beaded tassel or applique at each corner, to a string of sequins all around each edge, to the heavy sequin and seed bead borders on commercial veils. I like sheer chiffon prints with sequin edges.

Organza and lame are pretty and sparkly but kind of stiff. They don't have the soft, rippling effect of silk. Dancing with organza and lame veils definitely has a different feel than dancing with a silky veil. Adding weight to the edges just makes them heavier.

Don't overlook knit fabrics. These tend to be super soft and drapey. Sheer knits don't require hemming. Some sheer knits change color as the light changes and look awesome as veils. Don't try to weight the edges, the fabric is so soft the weights will just hang down. Liquid lame knit can be a little heavy, but still looks nice as a veil.

Lycra veils are out of style right now, but make very nice veils, with a ripple and flow movement similar to heavier silks and faux silks. Even lightweight lycra is sturdy enough to support lightweight decorations like a strip of sequins or metallic lace.

Lace makes a nice sheer veil and doesn't require hemming. Lace table cloths work well, but lace curtains are often too stiff due to the starch, which may or may not come out by repeated washing in hot soapy water. A round lace tablecloth cut in half makes two matching lace semi circle veils.

Sheer fabrics for curtains may or may not work. Some are soft enough but most are just too stiff.

Shawls can make nice veils, too. Look for large, triangular or rectangular shawls with trim. Burn out velvet with fringe, or plain sheer chiffon with beaded edges. Use two matching shawls like two matching veils. Shops that carry Indian clothing often carry sheer chiffon shawls covered with fantastic metallic, bead and sequin embroidery.

Originally Posted by nitewindz

Any light weight fabric with a soft hand (or drape) can make a nice veil.

[snip]

Shawls can make nice veils, too. Look for large, triangular or rectangular shawls with trim. Burn out velvet with fringe, or plain sheer chiffon with beaded edges. Use two matching shawls like two matching veils. Shops that carry Indian clothing often carry sheer chiffon shawls covered with fantastic metallic, bead and sequin embroidery.

Wow, thank you! That is such an amount of useful information, I'm sure I'll be able to find something nice armed with all this!

I've found an online shop that carries fairly cheap faux silk, it's listed as 80g/m. Does anyone have an idea how much veil silk usually weighs?

Originally Posted by Kjesta

MahiraRaqs, I sent you a PM

I PM'd you back

Looks like most questions have been answered, but I thought I'd share my favorite source for peace silk/ahimsa silk
Aurora Silk: Ahimsa Silk fabric, Peace Silk fabric, Satin Silk, Natural & Plant Dyes, Natural Fabrics, Yarns, Fibers

gorgeous hand, very high quality and worth every penny, imo.