Thread: What's this?

looking through the 'folkloric' section on bellydancestore.biz, i came across these:

http://bellydancestore.biz/gallery.p...roductId=11012
Belly Dance Costumes | Belly Dance Store.com: gallery
Belly Dance Costumes | Belly Dance Store.com: gallery

what are they, what type of dancing are they used for?

never seen anything like that....
PJ's maybe?

They are 'fellahine' style dresses.. they are indeed nasty looking things, unflattering and usually made of polyester or something like that.

They are often worn for Reda style folkloric dances with water pots. I am sure someone will offer youtube clips.

I think if people are handy with a sewing machine it would be better and so much cheaper to make your own, if this was the theatrtrical style you wanted to represent.

Aren't they fellahi dresses?

edit: Caroline explained at the same time.

Originally Posted by caroline_afifi

I think if people are handy with a sewing machine it would be better and so much cheaper to make your own, if this was the theatrtrical style you wanted to represent.

There are nightgown patterns on the market that would not be difficult to modify to achieve a similar look.

thanks gals! :)

Originally Posted by caroline_afifi

They are 'fellahine' style dresses.. they are indeed nasty looking things, unflattering and usually made of polyester or something like that.

I think the ones in the YouTube videos are beautiful, but the ones in the online store are hideous. Of course, the traditional ones aren't made of polyester, either.

Originally Posted by spicedjellybeans

I think the ones in the YouTube videos are beautiful, but the ones in the online store are hideous. Of course, the traditional ones aren't made of polyester, either.

Yeah the poly fabric is icky. When I took a fellahi workshop with Mohammed Shahin described the costume as a big shapeless dress with a ruffle at the bottom, usually brightly colored & mismatched. Now I am paraphrasing him b/c its been 5 or 6 years since I heard this & I did not record him verbatim but that was the gist. He explained that the mismatched fabrics & simple design were b/c the dress were traditionally made from scraps under modest conditions-- The fellahi dance originated with farmers/ peasants, the jugs to carry water to field & home.

Hehe,I see Capline&Gisela already cleared out what thay are used for...just have to add;Got a flashback;the icky crimplene of my fellahi muumuu around the legs and the discrete weight of my papier mache jug

Originally Posted by nayastrance

Yeah the poly fabric is icky. When I took a fellahi workshop with Mohammed Shahin described the costume as a big shapeless dress with a ruffle at the bottom, usually brightly colored & mismatched. Now I am paraphrasing him b/c its been 5 or 6 years since I heard this & I did not record him verbatim but that was the gist. He explained that the mismatched fabrics & simple design were b/c the dress were traditionally made from scraps under modest conditions-- The fellahi dance originated with farmers/ peasants, the jugs to carry water to field & home.

I don't own it, but I suspect Farida Fahmy's "Fallahat" e-book would clarify any outstanding questions on the matter.

Farida Fahmy's Costume Designs

ahh, fellahi dresses... in my troupe, also known as GAD's (God-Awful-Dresses)

Originally Posted by nayastrance

The fellahi dance originated with farmers/ peasants, the jugs to carry water to field & home.

I'd like to clarify a couple of points for the benefit of folks on this thread who may be less familiar with the Egyptian folkloric dance forms...

First, there are fellahin (farmers) all over Egypt, but the dances we associate with this costume specifically represent the farmers of the Nile delta region. Ie, not all fellahin in Egypt, just those in a very specific region.

Second, there is no traditional "fellahi dance" in Egypt, and no traditional water jug dance in Egypt. The dance we refer to as that was artificially constructed in the 1960's by Reda Troupe for theatrical purposes.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

I'd like to clarify a couple of points for the benefit of folks on this thread who may be less familiar with the Egyptian folkloric dance forms...

First, there are fellahin (farmers) all over Egypt, but the dances we associate with this costume specifically represent the farmers of the Nile delta region. Ie, not all fellahin in Egypt, just those in a very specific region.

Second, there is no traditional "fellahi dance" in Egypt, and no traditional water jug dance in Egypt. The dance we refer to as that was artificially constructed in the 1960's by Reda Troupe for theatrical purposes.

Yup. Thanks for adding to this.

Originally Posted by spicedjellybeans

I think the ones in the YouTube videos are beautiful, but the ones in the online store are hideous. Of course, the traditional ones aren't made of polyester, either.

they look like the muumuus hilo hatty wore on hawaii calls

Yup, these are traditionally made from wildly flowered polyester. But I was lucky enough to get a batch of Madame Abla fellahi dresses, which my troupe wears for our ballas dance, along with a couple of lowered ones and some plain ones. The ballas dance starts about 2 minutes in:

Originally Posted by *Shira*

I'd like to clarify a couple of points for the benefit of folks on this thread who may be less familiar with the Egyptian folkloric dance forms...

First, there are fellahin (farmers) all over Egypt, but the dances we associate with this costume specifically represent the farmers of the Nile delta region. Ie, not all fellahin in Egypt, just those in a very specific region.

Second, there is no traditional "fellahi dance" in Egypt, and no traditional water jug dance in Egypt. The dance we refer to as that was artificially constructed in the 1960's by Reda Troupe for theatrical purposes.

Yes Shira! but I have to say..

When Egyptians say 'Fellahine' they mostly refer to Delta region, despite the fact that there are indeed 'fellahine' all over Egypt. This does not mean some of those traditions are not shared across the fellahine fo Egypt. They are not exclusive to Delta, but, when representing upper Egypt people will use Sa'idi to the identify the region. The women in this area have the same style of dress but mostly black. Move up to Aswan region and they become colouful again.

The u'la or Ballas has been used as a strong folkloric feature in movies that long pre-date Reda.


The water pot is a longstanding feature in folklore. Songs were written about them and young women flirted with them in films, hitching up their skirts and sashaying around whilst the man sang.. the dance Reda invented was just a small hitch up from this and a creative spin for theatrical intention. this is different from it being a totally new invention/creation.
Melaya Leff dance a so called famous invention by Reda.. but, Taheya Carioca danced with a melaya and a yashmak in one of her earliest films with Naguib el Rahany (cant remember the name but remember the scene).

It is also worth remembering that even modern day Egyptians appear to have have become confused about what is/was local folklore tradition and a Reda invention.. you only have to look at the current representations of folklore in Egypt these to see that Reda was a mega influence. Reda is also hugely influencing beyond belief the current Oriental dance scene.

Reda didnt completely invent these things, he just took what was already there there and created around it for theatrical purposes.
The culture of the country should influence the troupe rather than the troupe influence the country..

Water pot dances exsist right across North Africa.. so I am not so sure that Reda completely imagined this?.. nor do I think women danced their way to the canals to fetch the water! I think old movies do provide an insight into what was there before.

PS I just saw this clip on OD from 1951
http://youtu.be/P5VfqR0dmFM

No directy on topic but I noticed on holiday in Marrakech a couple of weeks ago how colourful were the traditional hooded robes that the local women wore. Yes there were the darker ones that are probably what we expect to see as female Islamic wear but every hue and pattern and bit of glitter under sun was to be seen aswell and reminded me of these "village" dresses. And being worn everyday on the street and by the majority of women in prefernce to Western-style wear.

Originally Posted by caroline_afifi

The water pot is a longstanding feature in folklore. Songs were written about them and young women flirted with them in films, hitching up their skirts and sashaying around whilst the man sang.. the dance Reda invented was just a small hitch up from this and a creative spin for theatrical intention. this is different from it being a totally new invention/creation.

Originally Posted by caroline_afifi

Melaya Leff dance a so called famous invention by Reda.. but, Taheya Carioca danced with a melaya and a yashmak in one of her earliest films with Naguib el Rahany (cant remember the name but remember the scene).

I agree with these points. Along the same lines, some people credit Reda with introducing the Arabesque into Egyptian dance, but Samia Gamal does Arabesques in pre-Reda movies, such as A Glass and a Cigarette.

I guess the point I wanted to make is that there's not a longstanding traditional "fellahin dance" from the villages that involves swishing these dresses and carrying pots. Ie, if you could set a time machine to take you to 19th century Egypt, you wouldn't see women at the well doing a "fun in the village" sort of dance while swishing their full-skirted dresses and carrying their water pots. You'd see them carrying their pots, filling them, and taking them home, perhaps stopping for conversation with each other. But making a spectacle of themselves dancing? Not likely.

I haven't seen the Tahia Carioca movie clip with the melaya, but I do know that Samia Gamal danced with a melaya in pre-Reda movies. So yes, I agree with your point that Reda was not the first impresario to have a dancer dance while holding a melaya. But again, I would say that Old Cairo and Alexandria (the places usually represented by melaya leff dances) do not have a traditional "dance of the melaya" that used to be done at family gatherings or other social occasions. The idea of prostitutes going down to the docks and dancing around with their melayas to attract the sailors is one of the sillier ideas I've heard put forth about melaya leff.

I agree with you that depictions of many themes that we associate with Reda appear in pre-Reda movies. He drew inspiration from artists who had gone before. Also, it's common for separate artists to coincidentally come up with the same ideas independently of each other.

It has always been common practice in movie musicals to have the characters dancing around to music while holding an everyday prop. I think the way I'd characterize the Egyptian water jug dances and melaya leff dances is to think of it like Gene Kelly in the movie "Singing in the Rain" - he danced with an umbrella in that movie, but that doesn't mean that there's a traditional folk "dance of the umbrella" in the U.S. Similarly, Egyptian movie musicals had people break out into song/dance with everyday items that were part of their lives.

(continuing my previous message)



In the Egyptian movie Beauty and the Scoundrel there's a scene where people dance around while holding bowls of beans served by the bean seller (Ahmed Adawiyya) who bursts into song. They're wearing melayas, too. But the existence of this movie scene doesn't mean there was a traditional Egyptian "bowls of beans" dance.

Originally Posted by caroline_afifi

Water pot dances exist right across North Africa.. so I am not so sure that Reda completely imagined this?

Reda says he did not see any people dancing around with pots when he did his field research. Ie, he did not witness a "water jug dance" in the delta. He did see people carrying pots to the water to fill and take home. So he used the day-to-day lifestyle movement of carrying pots which he observed when he visited the delta as a tool for depicting people from that region. He was seeking to find forms of movement typical of each region that could be theatricalized into dance.

Reda didn't mention any awareness of water jug dances from Tunisia or elsewhere as a source of inspiration when I spoke with him, so I don't know whether he was aware of those at the time he choreographed his own.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

(continuing my previous message)
In the Egyptian movie Beauty and the Scoundrel there's a scene where people dance around while holding bowls of beans served by the bean seller (Ahmed Adawiyya) who bursts into song. They're wearing melayas, too. But the existence of this movie scene doesn't mean there was a traditional Egyptian "bowls of beans" dance.

There would if Reda had of done it! lol

Reda says he did not see any people dancing around with pots when he did his field research. Ie, he did not witness a "water jug dance" in the delta. He did see people carrying pots to the water to fill and take home. So he used the day-to-day lifestyle movement of carrying pots which he observed when he visited the delta as a tool for depicting people from that region. He was seeking to find forms of movement typical of each region that could be theatricalized into dance.

Yes, I can see that.

Reda didn't mention any awareness of water jug dances from Tunisia or elsewhere as a source of inspiration when I spoke with him, so I don't know whether he was aware of those at the time he choreographed his own.

I think just the fact that young girls carring water pots as something 'sexy' in an old Egyptian film would be enough for the imagination. Taking that to the next step would be almost natural I guess..for Reda it was another way was depicting an aspect Egyptian culture through dance.

Folkloric dance was something else.

Thanks for filling in the gaps.. these discussions are still really fascinating to me.. lol

Originally Posted by lplmuk

No directy on topic but I noticed on holiday in Marrakech a couple of weeks ago how colourful were the traditional hooded robes that the local women wore. Yes there were the darker ones that are probably what we expect to see as female Islamic wear but every hue and pattern and bit of glitter under sun was to be seen aswell and reminded me of these "village" dresses. And being worn everyday on the street and by the majority of women in prefernce to Western-style wear.

Djellabas! One of the most practical and attractive garments worn by humans anywhere. You might like reading this:
The djellaba, a traditional dress for modern Moroccan women | Womens Rights

Traditionally they're as likely to be light-colored and/or striped as dark (pretty sure the so-called "government djellaba" is traditionally a striped garment). FWIW, "traditional" Islamic clothing for women is as likely to be light-colored or bright-colored in many places as dark -- the dark/drab stuff people think of as "Islamic" is often more likely to be found as "the standard" in conservative countries or among more conservative people. The Maghreb is pretty colorful in wardrobe choices, even with the really traditional stuff...

Summarizing: The "bowls of beans", "melaya", "water jugs" and "farmer's implements" dances are theatrical visions of what would happen if people carrying or working with these objects started to dance while carrying or working with them. They are usually presented by troupes such as the Reda or Qawmeya troupes, as a tableau, a "scene" from everyday life. They are not traditional dances involving props like the Egyptian Assaya (cane or stick) dances that are commonly danced by ordinary people at parties and other happy get-togethers.

Originally Posted by leylalanty

Summarizing: The "bowls of beans", "melaya", "water jugs" and "farmer's implements" dances are theatrical visions of what would happen if people carrying or working with these objects started to dance while carrying or working with them. They are usually presented by troupes such as the Reda or Qawmeya troupes, as a tableau, a "scene" from everyday life. They are not traditional dances involving props like the Egyptian Assaya (cane or stick) dances that are commonly danced by ordinary people at parties and other happy get-togethers.

Not dissimilar in concept to the classic American musical? Only without the singing? IOW, fer instance, the cast of "Oklahoma!" breaking into song and dance should not be assumed to be really trying to authentically represent pioneers of the Old West cutting loose ?

(It's the first thing that sprung to my mind when reading your comment!)

Originally Posted by Tiziri

Djellabas! One of the most practical and attractive garments worn by humans anywhere. You might like reading this:
The djellaba, a traditional dress for modern Moroccan women | Womens Rights

Traditionally they're as likely to be light-colored and/or striped as dark (pretty sure the so-called "government djellaba" is traditionally a striped garment). FWIW, "traditional" Islamic clothing for women is as likely to be light-colored or bright-colored in many places as dark -- the dark/drab stuff people think of as "Islamic" is often more likely to be found as "the standard" in conservative countries or among more conservative people. The Maghreb is pretty colorful in wardrobe choices, even with the really traditional stuff...

Hi and yes it made a colourful change to the garb that many British moslem ladies choose. Although you do see brightly coloured shalwar kameez here, many of the ladies go for a more conservative colour.
Some Marrkechi ladies wore dark coats (abbayas?) but these featured wonderful glittery designs and contasted with djellaba ( thanks for the correct term) which varied from sequinned animal skin patterns to subtle pastels. I did see older ladies in cream gowns with square'd veiled headress and black niqab and you see these on many of the older photos.
The djellaba looked like a popular choice for many younger woman over western wear and as well as looking comfortable was very stylish and attractive. I did see ladies all in white..one very young..am I right in assuming they would be widows. Sorry for going OT.

Originally Posted by lplmuk

Hi and yes it made a colourful change to the garb that many British moslem ladies choose. Although you do see brightly coloured shalwar kameez here, many of the ladies go for a more conservative colour.
Some Marrkechi ladies wore dark coats (abbayas?) but these featured wonderful glittery designs and contasted with djellaba ( thanks for the correct term) which varied from sequinned animal skin patterns to subtle pastels. I did see older ladies in cream gowns with square'd veiled headress and black niqab and you see these on many of the older photos.
The djellaba looked like a popular choice for many younger woman over western wear and as well as looking comfortable was very stylish and attractive. I did see ladies all in white..one very young..am I right in assuming they would be widows. Sorry for going OT.

Not an expert on all things Maghrebi (I'm just someone with a *little bit* of firsthand information, and it's mostly Algeria-specific at that :D), but white doesn't necessarily have that connotation. It is a common and traditional (good grief, I've overused that word so much in this thread!) color for the haik, which is an old-fashioned kind of garment, but still seen through North Africa -- I suspect that's what you saw (like this? Anarkali: Joy of Dancing: Héla Fattoumi - Dancing the Veil). The most common niqab (face veil) I saw in Algeria -- dunno about Morocco and Tunisia -- is white and lacy. Really very pretty. Lacy white clothing (not just niqab) seems to have a long history in Algeria in general, come to think of it -- old photos and paintings attest to that.

Some of the clothing choice differences may distinguish Arabs from Imazighen (different Berber tribes), as well. In many places they are quite distinct groups (look at Kabyle clothing from Algeria, for example).

Personally, most of the examples of Maghrebi dancing I've seen (Schikhatt, etc.) has been done in traditional Amazigh (Berber) clothes, though I saw a video of a modern Nailiyat dance where the female dancers were wearing haik-like outer garments of...white lace.

Maybe someone here can speak more authoritatively on this?

ETA: Also...Hi and yes it made a colourful change to the garb that many British moslem ladies choose. Although you do see brightly coloured shalwar kameez here, many of the ladies go for a more conservative colour. -- IME as a Western Muslim, we who revert or were at least born in the West tend to be, at least initially, more likely to edge toward conservative styles. I discovered that in Algeria, the way I was used to wearing hijab in the US "read" as a more conservative Muslim, and had cultural implications -- where in the US, it just meant I was a visible Muslim.