Thread: Galabeya/Jibab

Has anyone used a Jibab for a baladi dress ala fifi galabeya style??

I really like the galabeya style for baladi rather than the tight cut out style modern dresses.

I was poking around and found this. I think's its beautiful- but I wanted to see what the reaction was first!!

thoughts? gripes? bitches or complaints... thanks :)

Well it wouldn't be Fifi style, because Fifi style involves the woman wearing a man's galabeya, and that one is clearly a woman's dress. But I think it would be pretty and there's nothing at all to stop you dancing baladi in a woman's galabeya. I think both MariaAya and Michelle75 here have posted videos of themselves doing "Kitchen Baladi" in women's galabeyas.

well yes-LOL true- I misspoke... but to be honest I haven't found a man's that I like- I like the big open collar she had on her's and I haven't found one.


I just don't see many people doing it in these and I didn't want to unintentionally offend someone- or give a misrepesentation of the baladi. I have been working with a few and I have a chance to do a small gig for some horse friends and as a small second set I thought I might do a baladi- which I don't have anything for... and again- I didn't want to do it in a regular bedlah as my understanding is that the baladi is done in a baladi dress/galabaleya. so-these aren't expensive and more my style and simple- could be worn as a cover up/multi use garment!! :)

I'd make sure it is flattering, has sufficient space to move, and let's the audience see what you do. This one looks like it may need a slit at the sides to give the feet enough space, and you may need to experiment with the shape, a wide A-line cut can be kinda bulky, especially when the fabric is heavy, you may look like you dance in throw pillow or behind a decorative curtain ;-) I wear a lot of galabeyas around the house (hey, you have to entertain the neighbors), and some are really pretty, but feel a bit more like a canvas tent - which is fine for sitting on the couch or scaring the neighbors, not so ideal for dancing.

It says "high quality egyptian cotton"

but without that all important thread count.. one never knows!!! ;) he he he- very valid point.

my biggest issue I see with this is the fact that the bust/bodice is actually fully seperate from the bottom- and I think with a hip sash- I might looking at a massive potato sack effect between the bust line and the sash. I already have fairly broad shoulders and a big butt- so that's a concern- a men's less fitted one would be a much better choice I *think* but again- I have found very casual looking ones- and the neck line is shaped like this one- which in all white- and bulky shapeless- it winds up looking more like a shapeless night gown.

I suspect-for this garment sides and arms would get slit for movement and comfort.

its only 50 bucks... so for even a knocking around thing its not wretched... (I live on the third floor- so no scaring of the neighbors unfortunately)

and if all else fails they have a 7 day return policy

Originally Posted by Basha

Has anyone used a Jibab for a baladi dress??

I really like the galabeya style for baladi rather than the tight cut out style modern dresses.

A gallabeya would be a very appropriate choice for baladi/shaabi. That's what the Egyptian families that I've visited wear for dancing recreationally in their homes. I think the one in your link is very pretty and would be a great choice if you like it. You'd want to wear a hip scarf over it - either with coins or without would be fine. You wouldn't offend anyone by choosing a gallabeya for baladi.

You're right that it could also be used as a cover-up, or as a dress. They're comfortably cool in hot weather.

Also, unlike the form-fitting sparkly costume dresses, a gallabeya is very easy to launder.

Oh, at second glance, I see the gathered yoke thing. My guess is that this particular cut may not be flattering when worn with a hip scarf, unless the fabric is a very silky, kinda Swiss batiste fabric. Maybe expanding the search to Moroccan caftans and dresses may make it a bit easier to find the perfect piece? The caftan I wear in my avatar is cut pretty straight (one can't see that it has lots of pretty embroidery around the neck and the sleeves), w/o too much extra in the hips, so no potato sack effect. It's not great (too narrow) for hanging out on the couch, but works nicely as a costume piece.

yuuup- that's the issue- because I know it needs the hip sash ... and while it may be high quality Egyptian cotton- its still cotton- which won't drap as nicely. I might still get this one later- I think its very striking- but I'm afraid it will hand poorly.
Thanks for the suggestion about the search expansion- I'm on two actual stores- where that's all they sell- but some of them aren't as good- I really began my search looking for the men's one- I love the white with the big collar but none of them have a distinct
neckline- all very bla looking.



Shira- I wasn't sure if there was any minute cultural difference I wasn't aware of between a Jibab and galabeya- not that the bulk of the people would know the difference- BUT one of my performances is for a group of people who share the love the Davenport Arabian- (squee- that's my kind of horse too) so while they aren't experts of all things Middle Eastern- they are avid students of the culture- and I want to make sure that even if they don't know some specific detail like that- I want to be able to say that it is a traditional garment for that particular style of song.

I love wearing my Jilbab, it is so darn comfy- I use them when I need a more conservative costume or am doing something with a more 'at home' feeling, like when I am presenting at a preschool or certain cultural events (some are okay with a more revealing/glitsy look)

But I also wear them to church and hang around the house in them- most of the ones I have ordered do have slits enough to walk and dance comfortably and they actually do drape nicely, in my opinion, but of course every vendor is different. My favorite vendor right now is Jilbab, Galabeya, Al Jilbab and it looks like maybe this one is from them based on the photo style? If so, I highly recommend them. On the other hand, I have skinny little almost-nonexistent hips, so I haven't dealt with that issue! Mine are usually long and require hemming, but the embroidery is usually high enough that it isn't compromised.

I think it´s beautiful and appropriate.

As many have mentioned,sometimes cotton can be bulky...the dresses I wear for lounging and have used occationally for shows are in a cooling rayon fabric that´s matt/brushed on the outside and glossy on the inside.
It doesn´t only feel wonderful-it looks great because the dress is heavy draping:)

Somehow related is how I constantly see dancers wearing tight fitting galabeyas/thobes that are made in too lightweight fabric...the dress is getting shorter and shorter through a performance to the point of being distracting...they pull it down etc Not a good look.

oh Lara- I'm glad you said that... that's exactly where I found it- I have been oogling East Essence- they have a beautiful Abaya I really really wanted- but just for a light weight cover up- I have a "winter" one but nothing for summer.

How are the ones you ordered- are the a little stiffer- again my concern with that one is if it doesn't drape nicely with that gathered bust line over a sash.

Somehow related is how I constantly see dancers wearing tight fitting galabeyas/thobes that are made in too lightweight fabric...the dress is getting shorter and shorter through a performance to the point of being distracting...they pull it down etc Not a good look.

yuuuup

maybe I have some tramatic images from the very first one I ever saw- she was easily in her fifties- maybe older wearing a very sparkly red dress- with a lot of mesh- and she was... well.... she was a bit lumpy to say the least and it was super skin tight. Just not really attractive to be honest. I gave her mad props for dancing in it- but it was horribly unflattering and very distracting I thought- I would have rather seen her in a regular 2 piece bedlah- than try to smoosh into power netting. I think she was trying to HIDE some of her body by using a dress- and it really just wasn't flattering in the least.

And ever since then I think they are pretty but I have had zero interest in wearing one...

that and I adore how Fifi looks in hers- given the nature of the baladi- any of the gabaleya's seemed more fitting.

It might be nitpicky, but I'd say that's an abaya, not a jilbab or gelabiya. It's fitted.

I have a couple of abayat, but I consider them "masjid wear," so not really suitable for dancewear for me, personally -- doesn't feel quite right to cross over. YMMV

It's labeled as a Jilbab- I'm not sure what the very specific details are differentiating between from Abaya to Jilbab is- my understanding is an abaya is mostly an over piece rather than a stand alone garment- but I admittedly am weak on cultural garments.

from the quick googling right now is showing some lack of proper terms- sometimes they say its the full garment that also includes the head pieces and shoulders- all as one unit- some say its the same... and there was a lot of "if you are dressed modestly who cares" which isn't helpful for academic discussion LOL

It appears- long and short of it... abaya appears to just generally be a looser garment than the jilbab.

but- I would love a more information if anyone has such!!!

going back through the website- I found this one- it doesn't have the yoke/gathering- but... in thought I think it still wouldn't be as good as a looser fit garment through the shoulders- I think that's the key- I don't think a more fitted garment through the shoulders will look as good bloused over a hip sash.
http://www.aljilbab.com/fatin_jilbab_medium.asp

OHOH

I found this one- methinks this might be a better contender!
http://www.eastessence.com/products/...aya-188-9.html

Originally Posted by Basha

It's labeled as a Jilbab- I'm not sure what the very specific details are differentiating between from Abaya to Jilbab is- my understanding is an abaya is mostly an over piece rather than a stand alone garment- but I admittedly am weak on cultural garments.

from the quick googling right now is showing some lack of proper terms- sometimes they say its the full garment that also includes the head pieces and shoulders- all as one unit- some say its the same... and there was a lot of "if you are dressed modestly who cares" which isn't helpful for academic discussion LOL

It appears- long and short of it... abaya appears to just generally be a looser garment than the jilbab.

but- I would love a more information if anyone has such!!!

going back through the website- I found this one- it doesn't have the yoke/gathering- but... in thought I think it still wouldn't be as good as a looser fit garment through the shoulders- I think that's the key- I don't think a more fitted garment through the shoulders will look as good bloused over a hip sash.
Fatin Jilbab Medium, 0611-j60m, Jilbab Medium Size - Aljilbab Online

Truth to tell, there is no universal agreement on the difference -- other than that jilbabs often button up, where abayas don't. I hear "abaya" used most for a slightly more form-fitting *dress* (which may or may not be worn over other clothing), where jilbab is more of an outer garment, and looser; so my usage is backwards from yours (background: I'm Muslim; when I hear other Muslim women refer to someone wearing a jilbab, they're doing it about a looser outer garment -- where "I love your abaya, mashallah!" is what people say to each other when someone is wearing a nice garment like the one you have posted.) BUT there is no universal agreement, and Muslims and predominantly-Islamic cultures are not monolithic, and a gelabiya is not a jilbab is not a djellaba...necessarily. But then again...And I *have* seen people use "jilbab" as a catch-all, probably for that very reason. I suspect you've run into this kind of discussion:
Sisters: Jilbab VS Abaya

I have an abaya with a similar cut (although a pleated and fuller skirt); as an experiment, I tried blousing it over a hip sash. You're right; it doesn't really work, although the fuller skirt/pleats may be part of the issue, as the extra fabric has weight. The abaya is fitted just enough at the natural waist to make it not want to do like that.

that's preciesly where I saw it- I opened a few other links- and given the context I wasn't putting a metric ton of stock in it- but it *was* something discussed LOL.


When I was in Dubai/Abu Dhabi all the black or mostly black with minimal embellishment very loose over garments were referred to as the abaya- which is kind of why I thought that's what it was only- and the galabeya/jilbab weren't over wear- but actual dress style garments.

But that was just in the UAE- which I get the feeling is kind of its own little special bubble LOL

Thank you for your personal information- I appreciate it greatly!

Originally Posted by Basha

OHOH

I found this one- methinks this might be a better contender!
Noorien Abaya: Traditional Islamic Clothing for Women, Men & Kids, Buy Modern Muslim Apparel, Designer Kurtis, Fashion Abayas & Jilbabs, Hijab, Skirts, Scarfs & Shawls Online

Heh -- funny you should bring up EastEssence; the abaya I experimented with on sashing was this one:
Shezan Abaya | Women | Eastessence.com

Which I wore on Eid. EastEssence are great. Shipping takes a while, but they do not disappoint. OTOH, be aware that it may be more fitted than you think it is, and that abayas are considered by many to be like a...Sunday dress.

I was looking at that one- but the square collar and box pleats with a sash I didn't think were a good combination- but I LOVED that one- I think the color is fantastic.

I was so close to pulling the trigger on a tan with black embrodairy for a lighter cover up- it was stunning- but I was super short on cash at the time.

I found a men's one with the right collar style I like so I might get both- Thanks for the heads up on sizing- I was hemming and hawing- I'm right on the boreder line of M/L for them- like my hip is a 43 and it says to be 1-2 inches bigger- and the garment is 45- and that's my bigger concern.

So for a more dance oriented garment- would you suggest going a size larger?

Originally Posted by Basha

Shira- I wasn't sure if there was any minute cultural difference I wasn't aware of between a Jibab and galabeya- not that the bulk of the people would know the difference- BUT one of my performances is for a group of people who share the love the Davenport Arabian- (squee- that's my kind of horse too) so while they aren't experts of all things Middle Eastern- they are avid students of the culture- and I want to make sure that even if they don't know some specific detail like that- I want to be able to say that it is a traditional garment for that particular style of song.

Hi Basha! There are admittedly small cultural differences in construction and decoration between a Gulf dress and an Egyptian dress. Others can jump in on this thread if they disagree, but I personally don't see a problem with wearing the Gulf dress for baladi. My logic is that Egypt dominates the music and cinema industries for the Arab world, and Egyptian stars are also stars in other Arab countries. Sort of like American pop singers are also often stars in England, Canada, and Australia.

I'm admittedly not a linguist, but it sounds to me as though the words "jilbab" and "gallabeya" both come from the same root word in Arabic - when you consider that the first consonant is the same for both words, and pronounced like a hard "g" in Egyptian dialect of Arabic and a "j" in Gulf and Levantine dialects of Arabic.

Regarding cotton fabric and its suitability for a dance costume, I think it depends on how heavy the cotton fabric is. I really like the way the fabric drapes on this gallabiya that I bought in Egypt, and it's made of cotton:

Oh my- that's lovely!!! great color on you.

Thank you- excellent point. I guess we see so much AMCAB- I wanted to make sure there was a very distinct difference between the baladi dance/costume and my other piece (which is 2 piece sparkles and circle skirts) to honor the tradition of the baladi dance.

Originally Posted by Basha

I was looking at that one- but the square collar and box pleats with a sash I didn't think were a good combination- but I LOVED that one- I think the color is fantastic.

I was so close to pulling the trigger on a tan with black embrodairy for a lighter cover up- it was stunning- but I was super short on cash at the time.

I found a men's one with the right collar style I like so I might get both- Thanks for the heads up on sizing- I was hemming and hawing- I'm right on the boreder line of M/L for them- like my hip is a 43 and it says to be 1-2 inches bigger- and the garment is 45- and that's my bigger concern.

So for a more dance oriented garment- would you suggest going a size larger?

(The color does show true on the site, BTW -- it really is that blue.)

This is what it looks like on, right out of the box, in a non-photo-shoot setting, via my cruddy webcam:
eiddressfull | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

If you look at the other picture of me in it, you can see that when I'm sitting, it doesn't blouse at all. I show you this because this is a really common cut for abayas (with or without the faboo pleats).

Here's the thing: as these dresses are meant to be part of "proper" hijab, they really can't be too fitted, and so are cut generously. But unless you're very conservative, you're less likely to want to appear to be a wearing something totally unfitted. So many of the more fashionable, pretty abayas are shaped to the body, even though not form-fitting. They might not be a good choice for the kind of blousy effect.

I'd recommend a men's garment, really. I agree with Shira, that one could go across countries, and if so, might you go to the Maghreb and consider a men's gondora? Like so:

9033: Long sleeved summer gandora

...Shira, that is BEAUTIFUL!

That is so pretty! I bet it looks fantastic on you!

I found this one- Sabz Dishdasha: Traditional Islamic Clothing for Women, Men & Kids, Buy Modern Muslim Apparel, Designer Kurtis, Fashion Abayas & Jilbabs, Hijab, Skirts, Scarfs & Shawls Online

I really wanted to have a more defined collar- the ones without one tend to look more like night gown wear- although the one I just linked does look a little stiff as well.

The one you linked has some women's that look acceptable too. little less fitted and more straight down.

Originally Posted by Basha

That is so pretty! I bet it looks fantastic on you!

I found this one- Sabz Dishdasha: Traditional Islamic Clothing for Women, Men & Kids, Buy Modern Muslim Apparel, Designer Kurtis, Fashion Abayas & Jilbabs, Hijab, Skirts, Scarfs & Shawls Online

I really wanted to have a more defined collar- the ones without one tend to look more like night gown wear- although the one I just linked does look a little stiff as well.

The one you linked has some women's that look acceptable too. little less fitted and more straight down.

Yes -- I see what you're looking at (as an aside, the bright-blue thobe-like gondora? I have that exact one in red, bought in a souk in Algiers -- so it's a pan-Maghrebi kind of style). The ones with more of a djellaba-shape would work -- they are unfitted. Djellabas themselves usually have hoods, though, so keep that in mind if you fall in love with one (make sure it doesn't have one). Also, the djellaba, with a hood, is such an iconic North African thing that people might assume you were going to do chikkatt.

I noted the hood difference- and nope- no North African dancing for me- out of my league!!!

Originally Posted by Basha

I noted the hood difference- and nope- no North African dancing for me- out of my league!!!

I strained something in one of my behind muscles trying to keep up with someone (as in "Here! Dance with me!") I am now intimidated, but still determined to learn it properly at some point.

Originally Posted by Basha

It's labeled as a Jilbab- I'm not sure what the very specific details are differentiating between from Abaya to Jilbab is- my understanding is an abaya is mostly an over piece rather than a stand alone garment- but I admittedly am weak on cultural garments.

from the quick googling right now is showing some lack of proper terms- sometimes they say its the full garment that also includes the head pieces and shoulders- all as one unit- some say its the same... and there was a lot of "if you are dressed modestly who cares" which isn't helpful for academic discussion LOL

It appears- long and short of it... abaya appears to just generally be a looser garment than the jilbab.

but- I would love a more information if anyone has such!!!

going back through the website- I found this one- it doesn't have the yoke/gathering- but... in thought I think it still wouldn't be as good as a looser fit garment through the shoulders- I think that's the key- I don't think a more fitted garment through the shoulders will look as good bloused over a hip sash.
Fatin Jilbab Medium, 0611-j60m, Jilbab Medium Size - Aljilbab Online

OHOH

I found this one- methinks this might be a better contender!
Noorien Abaya: Traditional Islamic Clothing for Women, Men & Kids, Buy Modern Muslim Apparel, Designer Kurtis, Fashion Abayas & Jilbabs, Hijab, Skirts, Scarfs & Shawls Online

What about this one?
Black Nafisa Jilbab Small, 0810-93s, Jilbab Small Size- Aljilbab Online
It looks like a bit fitted at the waist and flares out for the legs. maybe easier to dance in?

I have ordered from aljilbab. I bought the "richie". it is thick egyptian cotton. I had a zip put in the front, ironed on some champaign coloured hotfix crystals and use it as a cover up. I love it!

The only thing with the design I choose is that it was straight cut, so I needed to get it let out at the hips.

Some of this discussion is starting to get past the point where I would be comfortable advocating one of these dresses as a costume. If you are making an intentional attempt to honor Egyptian culture, then it doesn't make sense to wear a garment that has a strong association with another country, even if most audiences won't recognize it as such. When you pick a nontraditional-for-Western-dancers garment, you are inviting the audience into a teaching moment, so it's important to make a wise choice in the event you are asked to explain your costume. Most dancers, or at least most Egyptian-style dancers, would probably have some familiarity with the Fifi variation of the men's thobe, but dresses that are marketed to Muslim women for modesty are not typically worn on stage (especially if they're marketed as being something to wear to the mosque on Friday, as opposed to stylish everyday wear or folkloric clothes).

It's also important to remember that if you are dancing for a native audience, people within the cultures may recognize small distinctions that we as outsiders don't notice, for example, Brownbook: An urban guide to the Middle East -- Know your thobe – men, Brownbook: An urban guide to the Middle East -- Know your thobe – women. When someone within the culture transgresses a traditional boundary, there's an assumption that the person knows better and is doing so on purpose. When an outsider does it, the default is that the person made a wrong, ill-informed choice, so you need to be confident in your understanding and ready to back up whatever you've chosen.

Most dancers, or at least most Egyptian-style dancers, would probably have some familiarity with the Fifi variation of the men's thobe, but dresses that are marketed to Muslim women for modesty are not typically worn on stage (especially if they're marketed as being something to wear to the mosque on Friday, as opposed to stylish everyday wear or folkloric clothes).

When someone within the culture transgresses a traditional boundary, there's an assumption that the person knows better and is doing so on purpose. When an outsider does it, the default is that the person made a wrong, ill-informed choice, so you need to be confident in your understanding and ready to back up whatever you've chosen.

okay- we come full circle back to the heart of my question. Would it be an appropriate dress- some say yes- but to stick to a more traditional garb- you are implying no- it would not be.

(which is totally fine as I know the audience I'm addressing will know SOME but not all cultural details but are extremely interested in learning MORE about different cultural details)

But in that case- Fifi's men's galabeya noted as a common/more well known deviatation- what IS the appropriate dress here- because I'm having a hard time finding anything except tight fitted sparkly ones that are aren't what I'm looking for ultimately.

So what would YOU suggest as a more appropriate dress for a more traditional baladi?

(and thanks for the Brownbook links those are a great resource!)

I guess at this point I'm just getting more confused- which doesn't surprise me in the least- but let's press on- what and where a good source to stick to a traditional baladi style dress would be!

Originally Posted by Basha

okay- we come full circle back to the heart of my question. Would it be an appropriate dress- some say yes- but to stick to a more traditional garb- you are implying no- it would not be.
...what IS the appropriate dress here- because I'm having a hard time finding anything except tight fitted sparkly ones that are aren't what I'm looking for ultimately.

So what would YOU suggest as a more appropriate dress for a more traditional baladi?

Men Galabeya Light Grey Small, g017lgs, Galabeya Small- Aljilbab Online

...With the sleeves rolled up.

Compare with here:
haflla 2 - YouTube

Et voila?

I like that one... I like the gray ones more than the light blue ones too.. although side load here will definitely meed a medium. Also can order one of pretty ones for day to day wear because Damnit I want it! I found a dark blue one of a similar style... Would that color matter excessively so?

And if one wasn't wearing a men's... Which is probably what I am going to snag... What would you as a woman wear- as I clearly am having a hard time getting the right cultral garment distinction down?!

Originally Posted by Basha

okay- we come full circle back to the heart of my question. Would it be an appropriate dress- some say yes- but to stick to a more traditional garb- you are implying no- it would not be.

No, I'm just saying that a dancer should make sure she's researched and understands the cultural subtleties of an ethnic costume. I think the dress in Shira's picture looks pretty secular, which would be fine for a bint al-balad number. Something in a somber color that comes with a matching shawl probably wouldn't be. It might be very "baladi" to wear the second outfit, but it's "masjid clothes." To me, this is like saying, "Don't just search your song translations for the word 'Allah.' Know the difference between a song that has lyrics like, 'Insha'Allah, we will be together, habibi,' and something from Wael Jassar's Ramadan album."

I'm also recommending that a performer not put herself in the position of saying, "I wanted to do an Egyptian baladi number to this old Adaweyya song, so I found this cool Palestinian dress..." because that just sounds weird. Pick an Egyptian dress for the Adaweyya song, or a Palestinian song for the cool dress. It doesn't make sense to mix folkloric traditions, if you can avoid it (unless you are intending to make an unambiguous statement by disregarding those boundaries). The dance community sort of operates on the assumption that there are only two kinds of thobes, the fancy Khaleeji ones and everything else, while natives make many more distinctions, so we need to take that into account.

So what would YOU suggest as a more appropriate dress for a more traditional baladi?

I'd go with either the man's garment like Tiziri suggests (because people are going to question that less, knowing Fifi does it), or a dress that is recognizably Egyptian for an Egyptian number (maybe something in assuit), or a generic thobe/caftan with no strong ethnic affiliation. The problem is that the prettiest ones with the most embroidery sometimes have a clear ethnic identity, so if you go that route, you want to make the right match to the rest of your performance.

And if you decide to go with the man's garment, be sensitive to the cultural circumstances of that purchase. Some guy who runs an Islamic clothing store may not be prepared to give you a resounding endorsement of your decision to crossdress for a belly dance performance.