Thread: Skimpy (or bad) costumes

If I have opened a topic that has been done to death, I apologize and will understand. But as someone who is still relatively new to the dance, I have noticed that sometimes the costume is distracting if it's skimpy or really bad. There can be an amazing dancer like this: Dina Egyptian Belly dancer Sert el Hob - YouTube

I was SO moved by the above video and I wouldn't say the costume is bad, but her breasts look like they are going to fall out so I was thinking about people confusing belly dancers with other types of dancers it's no wonder due to some of the costumes I've seen that are super skimpy. Just wondering what your thoughts are on the subject. I have exactly one costume so I'm sort of testing the waters when it comes to costuming.

Basically, after I saw the above video I was thinking well obviously this is a high art form because that was an amazingly moving performance and just beautiful on more ways than one. Would different costuming make a difference in public perception and help elevate belly dance to a high art form in the piblic eye? As far as I'm concerned it's already a high art form.

I dont know how much of the public (in the US) actually see costumes like this. Some restaurant dances may wear them, but I think in general, that's not the style worn for the general public here.

Personally, I love that costume, and I love Dina for being over-the-top (hah! In more ways than one!). I actually think that many general American audience members would be just as confused by her dance style and artistry in dance as they are that style of costume.

I think a lot of it depends on your audience and what you are comfortable wearing..I love that style along with with Al wears (russian skimpy stuff) ..if I was entertaining at the appropriate venue I'd wear them in a heart beat. Nursing home? more conservative..

not much i can do with these boobs they spill out of everything lol

I find costumes with clear straps, skimpy skirts, cut-outs in the bra cups, too-small bra cups and see-through skirts distracting. They also tend to send a questionable message to all that view the costumes. I understand some dancers like the cutting-edge variety but IMO it can cause audience members to lost respect for both the dance and the dancer. Reminds me of Purple Onion's Strip-O-Gram acts from long ago. Strippers would wear belly dance costumes, cheap-o sets from Fredick's of Hollywood and such.

I think that there is also a cultural context to costumes as well. I can't see youtube videos at work but I'm assuming that it is a video of Dina from Cairo in one of her notoriously skimpy costumes? Dina is known for tight, small, and scandalous costumes. It's part of her image.

Dancers in Cairo in general wear costumes that most American audiences would consider too risque - for a lot of reasons, but partly fashion and partly boredom - everyone has to out-costume the competition. (Think of Lady Gaga and how Nicki Minaj and Katy Perry and lots of other female entertainers now wear crazy stuff as well.)

As Eman Zaki said to me while I was trying on one of her costumes - "You American dancers always look so covered up in your costumes. You need your boobs higher! (And shoves mine up to my chin) and skirts tighter! (And pulls the skirt till I look like a sausage.) You need to show everything off!"

First of all, Dina is Dina. She gets away with a lot that others wouldn't begin to get away with. Secondly, that costume was fairly conservative for Dina.

I agree with J'es that people need to choose their costumes with an eye towards what they are comfortable in and their audience. I, like others, am very well endowed and if I were to be "well covered" would probably be wearing cholis. But I am comfortable in most situations with cleavage. Now, I haven't tried the floating bras or the Dina style Emans. No idea if I would be comfortable with them or not. But I know that I am comfortable with a lot of legs showing. Love me those classic 3 panel skirts! I also acknowledge that many people aren't comfortable dressing like that and that's fine.

There will always be people who want to judge others based on their own projections. We get to decide whether there is any validity to those projections and than make changes if we feel it's appropriate.

{{{HUGS}}}

Philly-

That's awesome! Lol. Yeah, the US tends to be pretty conservative about dress. I was just wondering but think it's cool that Egyptian dancers love the skimpy stuff. I guess it's all a matter of perception. If in Egypt those dancers are not really considered risque for wearing skimpy costumes then that's different or if they like risque that's different too.

I hate to push the topic of money, but could it be partly because they get more money with higher boobs and skimpier costumes?

Dina is one of the top bellydance stars in the world, and she became famous because she pushed the envelope with her outrageous costuming.

Her costuming represents 'bellydance costume' the way Cher, Madonna, Nicki Minaj, or Lady Gaga's costuming represents 'what singers wear.' It's not relevant in my world, no one in my area dresses like that.

Do Cher, Madonna, Nicki & Gaga wear 'bad' costuming? It's really beyond judgment, they just are who they are. Whether they sing well or not is independent of the costume.

By the way, the fact that Dina pushed the sexual envelope with her costuming and behavior during a time when Egypt was becoming more and more fundamentalist around her -- combined with the fact that she holds a masters degree in philosophy -- suggests it was no accident and was a well-thought-out form of protest AND smart business move at the same time. However intentional it may have been, it worked. She is now respected throughout the world (often in spite of her costuming by those who hate it) for her innovations in dance technique. Tito, Orit, Randa, Soraya are all obviously influenced by her creative work.

Whatever is going on here افرح شعبى مصرى 2010 (dancing starts around the 0:30 mark) does not have the luxury of hiding behind the "Dina is just being Dina" excuse. Sex was part of the dance before Dina came along and it will be there long after she's gone. You can dance elegantly in a sleazy costume, and you can dance sleazily in an elegant costume. Preferably you'll aim for elegantly/elegant combination, though.

Wow. That's cool, Lauren. Sounds like a very strong and intelligent woman.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

You can dance elegantly in a sleazy costume, and you can dance sleazily in an elegant costume. Preferably you'll aim for elegantly/elegant combination, though.

A really fabulous, legendary dancer like Dina can get away with wearing anything she likes, but the average dancer isn't so likely to have that combination of skill and charisma in enough supply to overshadow a really unflattering costume. I personally find costumes that show a lot of skin, regardless of body type, to be very distracting. Once I saw a dancer wearing a typical 2-piece spandex costume, but the skirt was so low cut that you could tell it was below her waxing/shaving area. She was pretty and had a nice figure but I couldn't even tell you if she was any good as a dancer because I was too grossed out by the view, and worried the whole time that her skirt might fall off completely! I suppose if she had been that good of a dancer I might not have cared. But unless you are REALLY confident about your skills I would err on the side of dressing more conservatively. It just looks more elegant to me.

What's the consensus on the bellydance costumes from the sixties and seventies? I mean, they appear to be really skimpy - would they fly in today's typical bellydance setting? I know that these were more for nightclubs than restaurants - but if we're talking about skimpy costumes...

Would they be acceptable today?

Originally Posted by Minajen

What's the consensus on the bellydance costumes from the sixties and seventies? I mean, they appear to be really skimpy - would they fly in today's typical bellydance setting? I know that these were more for nightclubs than restaurants - but if we're talking about skimpy costumes...

Would they be acceptable today?

That's a really good question. I have been wondering why so many fashions from the 60's and 70's, not just bellydance costumes, that were also really skimpy, looked so much better back then. I wonder if it has as much to do with personal deportment as it does with cut of the outfit. Girls used to be taught posture and decorum as a matter of course, but that's been off the cultural radar for years now. Also, back then I think the focus was on legs, and now it's on breasts. In both eras the midriff was exposed, but back then it wasn't as much of a focal point as the legs, and the belly button was covered more often than not. Same amount of skin, different message.

I heard something very similar to what Lauren suggested, i.e., that Dina's costume choices are a very deliberate form of expressing her sentiments about the changes in an increasingly oppressive society. Even though my taste is definitely for less revealing outfits, I have since grown very fond of her costumes.

Dina is rebelling. I like her even more now.

I, for one, would not mind skimpy costumes at all. I have seen people wearing even less or nothing at all and it doesn't bother me. I think I'm more concerned about the image belly dancers are projecting here in the U.S. But...if it is an amazing belly dancer, she can where what she wants. I just want people to see belly dance for the art form, not thinking, "Oh, my god, look at that woman's boobs!" the whole time. If Dina hadn't been so amazing, I might have been thinking, "oh, my god look at those boobs" the whole time, barely paying attention to what's happening. I'll bet that is what happens when people who know nothing about belly dance see an ok dancer in a skimpy costume, especially in this society where boobs are so sexualized that people can't even breast feed in public (and that's a whole other thread).

Originally Posted by steffib

I heard something very similar to what Lauren suggested, i.e., that Dina's costume choices are a very deliberate form of expressing her sentiments about the changes in an increasingly oppressive society. Even though my taste is definitely for less revealing outfits, I have since grown very fond of her costumes.

What you and Lauren said made something related pop into my mind. I saw a documentary that talked about the impact of AIDS on American culture. The documentary drew a parallel between the rise of AIDS and the increase in risque clothing and dancing styles in American night clubs. The theory was that people in the 80s and 90s were less gung ho about casual anonymous sex than they'd been in the swinging 70s, due to AIDS. So people were expressing their sexuality in the form of dance moves and wild outfits.

I agree that once a society starts to repress sexuality in one aspect, it will express itself elsewhere and that's what Dina is doing.

As for the original question, smuse, I didn't watch the entire clip, but even though Dina's costume is revealing I haven't seen her do much that would make an audience confuse her with stripping--no floor humping, etc. Dina's costume isn't a style that would work for me (even if I had that body :grin), but I think her costuming and others are part of what make bellydance what it is. I see a lot of dancers doing the jazz pants w/ black tops, with a hip scarf thrown in. It's a very modern look and I can see how it's cool, but I don't want bellydance to look like every other dance form.

I think we should own the sparkle.

Originally Posted by rachelw

I think we should own the sparkle.

I think some of the sexier costumes can be OK, if done right. If the dancer is popping out of it, no. If it fits well and is flattering, and not showing anything it shouldn't, it can work. Not always, but it can. I find that if that dancer is really fit and well groomed, and her style is very energetic and classy it sometimes works. I think that most people expect the sexy costume, so it won't phase them if it is sexy and tasteful.

They key being that breasts are not falling out, the behind isn't showing, the skirt is substantial enough to be more than a loin cloth, the bra isn't a step above pasties, etc. that's just tacky.

Example of gorgeous costume, but too skimpy:

oryantal didem beyaz show 2011 - YouTube

That bra looks like it's going to pop at any minute and that's just frightening plus the skirt is almost totally see through. That's just too much, IMO, which is too bad because it's really very pretty!

But here is another skimpy costume that I think works:

Didem Bellydance show in Gold - YouTube

And it's AMAZING! All coins?

Originally Posted by Minajen

What's the consensus on the bellydance costumes from the sixties and seventies? I mean, they appear to be really skimpy - would they fly in today's typical bellydance setting? I know that these were more for nightclubs than restaurants - but if we're talking about skimpy costumes...

Would they be acceptable today?

I agree that many of the photos we see of nightclub dancers from that era are pretty skimpy. But your average dancer back then often wore harem pants under the circle skirt, and sometimes a sheer tunic and/or a vest over the bra. Nightclub entertainers with fabulous bodies could get away with skimpier looks.

Audience appropriate is the key. I wear more fashion forward costumes for Arabs and Turks and keep the bedleh/full skirt costumes for American audiences.

There's never a good excuse for wearing a costume that doesn't fit, but as far as wearing risque costumes, it's not just about you. In your own house and among your friends, whatever--go full "Port Said" LP cover and wear a high-slit circle skirt with pasties, but when you step in front of an audience, you have to consider their reaction. Dina can get away with outfits others can't, but she's also been the brunt of a lot of blowback for her choices. She lives in a world where she's never very far from some religious scholar calling her a whore in the mainstream ME media. She's got a lot of fans, but nobody wants their daughter to imitate her and people go around saying so. Dina may be Egypt's shining star of raqs sharqi, but hating on her is also a national tradition. We can say she's making this calculating statement on societal norms and there's no such thing as bad publicity when you're a celebrity, but people aren't just judging her clothes. They're passing judgment on her as a human being because of what she wears and does. Dina has had to develop a pretty tough hide to take all of the abuse that gets heaped on her.

For many of the GP events where we dance, boobs-a-poppin' bras, coin-slot miniskirts, costumes with daring cutouts, etc. are simply not appropriate. It doesn't matter whether we feel like goddesses in them or not, the public doesn't always want to see that. It makes them uncomfortable and it confuses them about the message we're sending. Are we strippers? Are we really putting on a show that's appropriate for children to see? Are we there to entertain them or push their buttons about sexual taboos?

Actually, a skimpy costume may not even be appropriate for some dance-community events, especially if you lack the skill and confidence to pull it off. That's a bold impression to make, and other dancers will wonder what you're trying to prove by going outside the norm. You'd have to be pretty naive to do something designed to grab people's attention without realizing they are going to question why you did it.

@rachelw, I'm not sure the AIDS theory is relevant to the particular issue of dance costumes. For one, the dance costumes of the pre-AIDS era often showed a lot of skin, especially in terms of skirt slits and small bras with narrow straps. For another, the rise of Islamic fundamentalism in the ME is probably a bigger player in the discussion than the rise of gay rights in the West. Large swaths of the Muslim world still view AIDS as divine retribution for immoral behavior, something that wouldn't lead to the conclusion that you should compensate by wearing less clothing when you dance. My feeling is that fashion merely goes in cycles of "less covered" and "more covered," and changing styles drive their economy.

@rachelw, I'm not sure the AIDS theory is relevant to the particular issue of dance costumes. For one, the dance costumes of the pre-AIDS era often showed a lot of skin, especially in terms of skirt slits and small bras with narrow straps. For another, the rise of Islamic fundamentalism in the ME is probably a bigger player in the discussion than the rise of gay rights in the West. Large swaths of the Muslim world still view AIDS as divine retribution for immoral behavior, something that wouldn't lead to the conclusion that you should compensate by wearing less clothing when you dance. My feeling is that fashion merely goes in cycles of "less covered" and "more covered," and changing styles drive their economy.

I wasn't addressing the impact of AIDS on dance costumes, but more that when a culture represses sexuality and sexual expression, people find other ways to express themselves sexually. I was using the example from the documentary to express that overall point. Sorry, it made sense in my mind, but I was tired when I wrote this and I don't think it translated well here.

In many Middle Eastern and Muslim communities, where women are often encouraged to cover themselves or dress very modestly, I have witnessed that those who do not adhere to those mores usually go to the other extreme. It was sort of a stereotype in the community where I grew up--the Arabic women who did not wear head scarves often wore very provocative clothing, the most make up, the most carefully styled hair, etc.

I'd prefer to be considered covered-up and classy than half-naked and slutty. I'm going to assume my audience is there to see a beautiful elegant dance, not a trashy pole dance (sans pole). I'm going to try to mesmerize them with my dancing, not with wondering what might be revealed by that excessively high slit in my skimpy skirt. I tell all my students they are stunningly beautiful already, so we don't have to veer over into slutty to get attention.

Originally Posted by rachelw

I think we should own the sparkle.

I need this as a bumper sticker

Originally Posted by dima

Example of gorgeous costume, but too skimpy:

oryantal didem beyaz show 2011 - YouTube

That bra looks like it's going to pop at any minute and that's just frightening plus the skirt is almost totally see through. That's just too much, IMO, which is too bad because it's really very pretty!

But here is another skimpy costume that I think works:

Didem Bellydance show in Gold - YouTube

And it's AMAZING! All coins?

I don't see much difference between Didem's two outfits. 'Skimpy' or 'too skimpy' seems to relate to her breast size because they are almost the same pattern: the bra cups have single shoulder straps, double straps on the side (instead of a wide band), and a single fastening strap in back; the skirt rests on the mid-to-low hip and has a lengthwise slit on the right side.

Comparing both, the brown strikes me as the superior costume because it is perfectly tailored, staying in place as she moves. The beading and lining are also well thought out, preventing unwanted exposure. By contrast, the coin skirt's weight makes it hang and swing away from the body. When she takes a wider stance during a movement, it actually reveals more than the brown costume.

I found another video of Dina and even though she is more covered up — I now know this style is called fustan raqs, thank you Shira! — it comes across as 'too skimpy' to me because you can tell what size, type and placement of implants she has. Call it rebeling if you like, I call it bad taste.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

*everything*

Agree with all the above, in terms of the average bellydancer emulating Dina's style.

but...

@rachelw, I'm not sure the AIDS theory is relevant to the particular issue of dance costumes. For one, the dance costumes of the pre-AIDS era often showed a lot of skin, especially in terms of skirt slits and small bras with narrow straps. For another, the rise of Islamic fundamentalism in the ME is probably a bigger player in the discussion than the rise of gay rights in the West.

AIDS is a gay rights issue? Have i just been transported back to 1989?

I agree with poster who said Dina's costume in this clip is not one of her more outrageous ones!
I love Dina's costumes on her but not everyone is okay with those small style cups. I actually ordered an in-stock Egyptian style lycra costume with those "Dina" style cups and belt/skirt combo. I'm not that endowed (full C or C-D cup) but geez that style of bra is not only demi-cup but cups were waaaaaay to far apart for moi! The skirt was a combo belt skirt and fit fine and not daring in any way, but I had to send the costume back because of the bra.

However, I must also add that skimpy costumes are certainly nothing new - the chiffon skirts with slits all the way to the top and skimpy bras that were well, perilous with skinny leetle tiny cord back straps (gulp) were certainly seen aplenty in bellydance nightclubs in the 70's and 80's. For a nightclub performance, I think it's fine, although at Casbah I either wore an opaque skirt with slits not all the way up to hip or I'd wear a couple of chiffon skirts - draping one for more leg coverage. I loved the glitz and all, and my bras certainly showed cleavage but were not skimpy cups. And of course, I'd add harem pants and vest for a grammar school gig.

Beyond the obvious fact that a costume should fit body type and be flattering color - there is the dancer's personal sense of style and self-expression and that's very important.

So when I see a "daring" costume worn by a dancer obviously very comfortable and it's appropriate for venue -- then I say "great". I don't find it distracting at all.

I need Didem's gold coin costume. I need that like I need air to breathe. I haaaaave to have it.
It's calling me.....

A question, since we're on the subject of skimpy costumes -those thigh high slits, like seen in Neilja Ate's costumes, and turkish costumes especially - how do you turn and move without.....showing .....you know. It. I love the slit skirts so much more than either full circle or the slimmer, sleeker skirts. But I'm terrified of doing a twirl and embarrassing myself and the audience. >.>

Originally Posted by Minajen

I need Didem's gold coin costume. I need that like I need air to breathe. I haaaaave to have it.
It's calling me.....

A question, since we're on the subject of skimpy costumes -those thigh high slits, like seen in Neilja Ate's costumes, and turkish costumes especially - how do you turn and move without.....showing .....you know. It. I love the slit skirts so much more than either full circle or the slimmer, sleeker skirts. But I'm terrified of doing a twirl and embarrassing myself and the audience. >.>

harem pants, you can get matching ones in a nice chiffon. If you want to keep the leggy look, you can have slits either in the front or the sides of the legs.