Thread: You ever think...

when on Dahlal's website that the tribal costuming options look like she's missed the point?

Tribal and tribal fusion costuming can be so beautiful and creative. These look like, pretty much what they are, trying to imitate it without really understanding the genre.

Hells yes I do. They remind me of those heinous "belly dance" patterns that, is it Simplicity do? With the hair garden that looks all wrong on top of the random tiered skirt and strange tied on hip scarf thingy and the dancer doing weirdo things.

I love a lot of TF costuming though I don't wear it a) because I don't think it is most flattering on the thick-torsoed and b) because it would just confuse the hell out of people, given the way I like to dance, and the Dalal stuff reminds me, sadly, of somebody's grandma's interpretation of what The Kids are wearing.

I do wonder if whoever is putting it together is a) blind b) secretly HATES tribal and wants to make it look horrendous. Because most of the other costumes on the site are attractive. Hmm, perhaps it's because most of the other costumes on the site are straight out of the box and onto the body? Quite a few "dancer designs" are equally WTF.

i do hate it, i could be wrong but part of it might be that most of the biz is cabaret style so she caiters to those customers (plus being overpriced)+ I feel that a lot of tribal girls put together their own outfits from bits and pieces and its more expected in that style/unique. just a thought

There are a number of potentially really good pieces in Dahlal's catalog. I am not sure about the chain of causality here: a local importer whose wife is a well-known TF dancer (w/ Zafira Dance Co.) and who designs some of the pieces they carry, has an overlapping line. So, either both my local store and Dahlal pick from the same wholesaler, or Dahlal gets wholesale from the line made for my local store. And, I know from many years of wearing these pieces, there are some great finds to be had, for both tribal and oriental tastes.

Part of the problem I see is with the styling and how things are put together in the photos. I often cringe when I see how the looks just don't quite work.

Originally Posted by steffib

Part of the problem I see is with the styling and how things are put together in the photos. I often cringe when I see how the looks just don't quite work.

ditto.

I just took a look. I am not even sure how much of it I would categorize as tribal. Much of it can be used for tribal, much of it really is very Turkish Rom / American Cab / VO. Lovely stuff, but really not what I think of when I think tribal.

{{{HUGS}}}

Some of the dancer designs over the years have definitely been strange. But I agree, their Tribal stuff doesn't really look like actual tribal-wear that I've seen on most Tribal dancers.

They are a primarily cab supplier- I have always chuckled at their "tribal" stuff. I think they talk about what tribal is- without actually watching it then just pick stuff to sell.

As pointed out tribal wear is often hand made or limited avialability so each dancer is unqiue (well unique to tribal- line them all up and and first glance half are rachel brice copy cats - and I don't say that in a mean spirit- I started as a tribal dancer and still very much love the richness of the costumes and performances) but the kuchi- all collected usually over time- through various events and friends- and each piece is layered.

There is depth there- not just a bunch of fabric thrown at a costume and decorated.

glad I'm not alone.

I love the look of well done tribal, and it tends to get very expensive.

Most of my day wear involves a ton of jewelry elements favored by tribal dancers, of all flavors, including kuchi, moroccan and afgan jewelry. The real stuff (like the necklace being sold on bhuz right now for $300 plus) is uber expensive, and anything that involves lush fabrics in quantities are just as. I think that the buyers at Dahlal are not really aware of this, or that a lot of the elements like the hair flowers, take a significant amount of work to balance and make it look good.

I give them credit for trying, but wish they'd put someone who actually knows and understands the aesthetic to put the outfits together. As is, it's a mish mash, although they have some good starter bits.

Also, have you seen the sari shorts?

There is depth there- not just a bunch of fabric thrown at a costume and decorated.

God that's rude. I presume you've never MADE a half-decent oriental costume.

reading comprehension > you

Relax. You grossly missunderstood me.

There is an INCREDIBLE amount of work into an oriental costumer-I have a fairly heavily beaded on I'm in the middle of and just begun another with intent for beading and layering.

I never insinuates as such- I'm offronted you are so snappy for no reason at all.

I was merely refering to their tribal costumes which are OBVIOUSLY lacking.


wow. just wow.

I am so sorry. I thought you meant oriental costumes were just fabric thrown at a body and decorated. And given that it's my job to read and comprehend (and indeed correct egregious spelling errors) and that I do it eight hours a night, five nights a week, I guess I *should* be redfaced.

It's so great that you're here to set me right Basher!

WHAT are you all talking about!? You're making me laugh! Her "tribal" page doesn't look so bad to me

I admit my "tribal style" costuming is way off from what everyone else seems to wear... (see my post about how I remedied THAT dilemma for a "tribal" show Creating a unified look

But, I was just reading the Mira Betz interview in Shimmy where she says MILES COPELAND is responsible for what everyone seems to think is the Tribal Fusion look. At least, that's what I'm remembering.... ?

Originally Posted by anthea

WHAT are you all talking about!? You're making me laugh! Her "tribal" page doesn't look so bad to me

I admit my "tribal style" costuming is way off from what everyone else seems to wear... (see my post about how I remedied THAT dilemma for a "tribal" show Creating a unified look

But, I was just reading the Mira Betz interview in Shimmy where she says MILES COPELAND is responsible for what everyone seems to think is the Tribal Fusion look. At least, that's what I'm remembering.... ?

Well, maybe he is and he isn't, i would lay that at RB's feet, since everyone and her sister seems to take their costuming ideas from her (that's not a criticism, it was "her" look and unique and it's not her fault she's so fabulous and people copy her).

I would posit this though, look at FCBD IMG_1942 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

-v-

https://www.dahlal.com/default.aspx?...unset%20mosaic

the proportions are off, the schemes are matchy matchy, and the elements lack that organic feel of the costume being put together and prepared over time.

a

Originally Posted by kina

Well, maybe he is and he isn't, i would lay that at RB's feet, since everyone and her sister seems to take their costuming ideas from her (that's not a criticism, it was "her" look and unique and it's not her fault she's so fabulous and people copy her).

Also Mardi Love, because she was always one of RB's major costuming influences.

The garments like those on the Dahlal website, made from old, recycled saris, are definitely not an invention by Miles Copeland. These pieces have been around for many, many years in my neck of the woods. (Nothing like those sari shorts, though, those deserve a medal for hideousity.)

I believe that some (but not all) of the tribal fusion look can be traced back to the San Francisco tribal scene in the 90s. One factor comes to mind: Jill Parker, one of the early members of Fat Chance, decided to go her own ways. She wore coin bras w/o choli and got rid of the big skirt and turban, which inspired and was taken further by others. Rachel Brice studied with Jill for a while, so my guess is that there is a direct line of influence.

Originally Posted by steffib

The garments like those on the Dahlal website, made from old, recycled saris, are definitely not an invention by Miles Copeland. These pieces have been around for many, many years in my neck of the woods. (Nothing like those sari shorts, though, those deserve a medal for hideousity.)

I believe that some (but not all) of the tribal fusion look can be traced back to the San Francisco tribal scene in the 90s. One factor comes to mind: Jill Parker, one of the early members of Fat Chance, decided to go her own ways. She wore coin bras w/o choli and got rid of the big skirt and turban, which inspired and was taken further by others. Rachel Brice studied with Jill for a while, so my guess is that there is a direct line of influence.

well, sure, she started with FCBD, then Jill, then I think Suhaila? Melodia was a part of the Indigo (if I remember correctly) who started with the pants...

but the aesthetic of the old (authentic) tribal jewelry I think can go back to Salimpoor Sr. (sorry blanking on her name at the moment) or even further.

Rhea of Greece (who I believe studies with them) is decidedly NOT a tribal dancer and she has tons of authentic jewelry that she has been collecting forever and wears a similar costuming style.

Everything old is new again, it seems. I remember a couple of years ago where someone was asking where to get the "new" style of pants: they were harem pants AKA bloomers originally popular through FCBD.

God I love costuming.

starts to giggle then cough and twitch at the idea of Miles making costumes HAHAHAHHAHA

Well of COURSE Miles invented TF costuming! He also invented theatrical bellydance shows, using hot dancers and using modern Arabic music and, oh he probably actually invented belly dance itself. And drum solos, yes, I bet he invented them too.

but the aesthetic of the old (authentic) tribal jewelry I think can go back to Salimpoor Sr. (sorry blanking on her name at the moment) or even further.

Rhea of Greece (who I believe studies with them) is decidedly NOT a tribal dancer and she has tons of authentic jewelry that she has been collecting forever and wears a similar costuming style.

Everything old is new again, it seems. I remember a couple of years ago where someone was asking where to get the "new" style of pants: they were harem pants AKA bloomers originally popular through FCBD.

Jamila.

And yes, BDers have been collecting and layering jewellery like that since before tribal was invented.

Okay, I had to go look since I've been avoiding sites where I may be tempted to spend the money I don't have

The items I saw in the tribal section *are* worn by tribal dancers. It is not a complete look and I'd say it's bordering on a dated look right now, but seriously, 10 years ago a long sleeve velvet choli, recycled sari skirt, vests, coin bras (yes, some of them mass produced and available at the local import store) WAS tribal style. Those elements are still used, but the genre has grown & shifted. Dahlal does focus on cabaret, so I don't expect them to have a huge variety in tribal. Click on full costume in either category- 7 costumes in tribal vs. 32 *pages* in Egyptian- how much variety do you expect them to have with 7 costumes? They've got some basics that will work for certain versions of the tribal aesthetic. They're not claiming to be the be-all end-all of modern, avant garde tribal wear!

Originally Posted by kina

glad I'm not alone.

Also, have you seen the sari shorts?

def. not alone. :) And OMG, I nearly lost my **** when I saw those shorts.

They have some nice practice gear. Of all the retailers I have tried so far, their flare pants are the best. Not too thick, not too thin, just stretchy and enough and unlike Sharifwear's pants, the rise stops and inch or two below your belly button (as opposed to an inch or two below your chin). Their wrap tops are nice too. But the tribal wear? Hmmm, no. Their stuff ressembles nothing we wear for ATS around here (25 yards, solid colors, the odd dip dyed here and there), tassel belts (home made or commissioned from someone local) and cholis. Coin bras are all handmade.

For TF, we tend towards the pared down look (think Heather Stants), but occasionally a funky belt/hair accessories is worn in performances. (In TF class, no one wears a hip scarf). And cowrie falls are considered dated and no one wears them.

And cowrie falls are considered dated and no one wears them.

that's a shame- I like them!!! That being said I guess the feather movement took over- and I see how the shells would be fazed out- they are heavy- feathers - not so much!

although it says a lot about tribal movement- tis slow west to east- all the ITS\ATS folks out here from what I can recall from the last show I went to- were definitly still rocking them- not as much- but they were still there in force (to the point of excess actually)

I like a handful- but all over is too much.

Originally Posted by kemintiri

Of all the retailers I have tried so far, their flare pants are the best. Not too thick, not too thin, just stretchy and enough and unlike Sharifwear's pants, the rise stops and inch or two below your belly button (as opposed to an inch or two below your chin).

OMG!!!! I thought I was the ONLY person who had this problem with Sharifwear pants - I swear I can take one pair and actually stretch it over my head.

/offtopicsorry

Originally Posted by phillyraqs

OMG!!!! I thought I was the ONLY person who had this problem with Sharifwear pants - I swear I can take one pair and actually stretch it over my head.

/offtopicsorry

I believe you. One of my classmates once did exactly that once. OMG it was so funny.

All I can think of when I visualize that is bevis and butthead... more TP for my bunghole... more TP for my bunghole.....

BUNGHOOOOLLLLEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo


sorry. I know I'm really raising the bar for classy around here on bhuz. <hides>

This is good to know about Sharifwear pants, because I have a short waist as it is....

Originally Posted by anthea

WHAT are you all talking about!? You're making me laugh! Her "tribal" page doesn't look so bad to me

I admit my "tribal style" costuming is way off from what everyone else seems to wear... (see my post about how I remedied THAT dilemma for a "tribal" show Creating a unified look

But, I was just reading the Mira Betz interview in Shimmy where she says MILES COPELAND is responsible for what everyone seems to think is the Tribal Fusion look. At least, that's what I'm remembering.... ?

Rachel Brice and the Indigo created the look. Rachel toured with BDSS, and that helped her look and style spread around and catch on quickly.

Originally Posted by kina

Well, maybe he is and he isn't, i would lay that at RB's feet, since everyone and her sister seems to take their costuming ideas from her (that's not a criticism, it was "her" look and unique and it's not her fault she's so fabulous and people copy her).

I would posit this though, look at FCBD IMG_1942 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

-v-

https://www.dahlal.com/default.aspx?...unset%20mosaic

the proportions are off, the schemes are matchy matchy, and the elements lack that organic feel of the costume being put together and prepared over time.

a

I'd call this set Tribaret or Old School Cabaret.

It's bright and colorful and would look good on stage. It's also inexpensive enough to make a very nice troupe set.

It is not modern Tribal or ATS or Tribal Fusion.

(I ....sort of like the Dahlal "Tribal"....It's just so colorful. )

Re: the layered look and old jewelry, I'll repost this:
Gilded Serpent present Cedar's Archives
(When these were originally posted the page had information about most of the pictures, which is now missing. I'm wondering if that happened when the watermark was added to the photos)

And Masha's current work
The Jewelry Art-to-Wear of Masha Archer

Dahlal has some good pieces you can use for tribal wear, but I would not put most of it together as an entire look. Of course, you can look equally as visually boring or frantic with any costume. The classic ATS black choli, black skirt with a colored band at the bottom, coin bra and tassel belt can get really boring, but so can the TF Neo-Romantic overly layered lace look what resembles Victorian parlor dressing. Carefully crafting an ATS for TF costume is as much as art and creating an Oriental costume (and finding ready to wear in either that suits your body and aesthetic is an art unto itself).

Just found this page which has pics of Rachel going back to 2002, and really shows an evolution of TF style:
What is Tribal Fusion