Thread: Fire dancers - tell me about candles!

I'm looking at those little handheld candles. i gotta know more about these ^^
are they real candles? or LED?
what to look out for when buying these?
any good resources to share? :)

thanks!!! :)

Hi,

My former troupe had a few candle dances. We generally used clear glass votive holders with tealight candles. Some people also use cotton balls that have been soaked in an oil, but I haven't tried that personally. I have seen people use LEDs as well. The trick with LEDs is that you still need to pretend that you have a real flame, otherwise it will be obvious to the audience. This means you don't want to turn your hand over as your dancing, get it too close to your hair, etc. I believe some of the LED lights also come in "flickering," which might look more real to an audience. If you use frosted or colored class, this would also make the audience members less likely to notice that it's not a live flame.

As for a holder, it can be pretty much anything you want it to be. Just make sure that it fits well in your hand. Mine are similar to these: Product Details - Roly Poly Glass Votive Holder You can get similar ones at Michaels or pretty much any craft store as well. The base fits well in the palm of my hand and the rounded sides make it easy to grasp while dancing. I also have some that are metal with patterns punched into the sides, but those don't show the flames as well. Those are just the simplest ones. I've also seen people using lotus-shaped candle holders or other designs. It's really up to your preference.

thanks! :)

so that's it? it can be any candle holder basically, nothing really specific?
and, the LED lights, battery-operated, etc... what's the difference? i hear there are flickering ones, where can one get those?

Yeah, that's pretty much it. You can get the LED battery operated ones at just about any craft of floral supply store. The only thing I would add to Rachels suggestions is to find a way to anchor the candle to the bottom of the cup. With LED I use double sided tape, with real candles I use wax. This way the candle isn't shifting around the inside of the cups while you are dancing.

And I agree, if you are using LED's a coloured or etched votive is going to help keep the illusion of it being a live flame.

{{{HUGS}}}

I'd suggest starting with LED candles. Then move to votive holders with water in them for practice. If you spill water, its better than spilling wax.

Once you are ready, stay away from colored or scented candles. That wax can burn and even scar more easily than natural waxes.

I prefer palm torches soaked in alcohol. They have a safer grip and don't drip. Start with 70%. Go up to 90% for larger outdoor flames.

Of course please learn about fire performance safety if you will be using live flame. Fire by Riz has an excellent safety video.

Fire basics:

• Tie hair up
• No synthetic fabrics
• Know where your wind is and when it changes
• Have safety equipment near by at all times, even with votive candles.
• You can never be too careful
• Respect the danger of working with fire

thanks for all the tips! :)

do you gals have any online stores for the flickering LED lights (good idea to start with those, and learn with water-filled votive holders, too!!)
not being in the US means we don't necessarily find all the same stuff easily in shops, problem solved by online shops :)

also, are there any dvds or so you can recommend, for the different movements?

Yep, that's pretty much it. There's nothing really specific. Candle dancing is, as I understand it, a western thing. It's not like there's Official Bellydance Candles out there. Really, it's probably the least expensive prop you will ever use.

The only difference is that the LED lights would come in handy if you were concerned about fire or you had a venue that doesn't allow actual candles. Or, if you were dancing some place where wind is an issue. Or if you just don't feel comfortable with real candles. I like Sabrina's suggestion of starting with LEDs and moving on to holders with water.

Tahira also has a good point about sticking the candles to the holder. Forgot about that!

I was taught how to fire dance from Isidora and Taka (both Colorado) ..Taka liked the open flame glass orb style (held different) and Isidora worked with me on the oil soaked cotton (dangerous but absolutely no comparison :)

You have probably heard this before but I had to start out with containers filled with water and learn how to not spill on myself or the floor.

Remember that a very effective fire dance need not be filled with death defying tricks. Some of the most beautiful dances I've seen (and how I was taught) was to dim the lights and accencuate THE DANCE with the special glow of fire. The body and its movements were the show,not the oooooh factory of the big flames.

here's a photo of the ones I used (yes the costume dates me ) I found them in a goodwill store ..I recommend testing the base (make sure the top is screwed on tight) some bases heat up faster than others..,

oh..I used to also go in to the restaurant early and practice with no one around to learn the layout of the rugs, chandeliers, etc

some random thoughts that might be useful:

-if good pics are a concern, use red/orange colored votive holders.

-if you are on a stage, the oil method might work better. (if the stage is lighted, the light of the LEDs will be drowned out, if the stage lights are turned off, the candlelight will not be enough to light you. if you have access to the venue beforehand, have a friend there with an LSR and test.

-if using the LED method, you don't have to use those candle replicas. any LED light (preferably a bit brigther than the fake candle ones), will do. All the audience will see is a bright spot inside a red or orange votive holder.

-when working with fire, you need insurance. even if it is just a tealight. you're better off paying 50$ in insurance and not need it than be stuck with a civil suit of several miliions of something goes wrong. you also need a safety person (ideally 3, one to spot the audience, one to spot you and one standing ready with an extnguisher), a fire blanket, an extinguisher and a secure place to put your lighters, fuels etc... while you are performing. if you can, ask your local fire marshall to help you (they will have the fire blankets and extinguisher and may charge a small fee for their rental, but that's less money than buying your own). Most will be so happy that you contacted them about safely putting out a fire *before* you light it that they will help you for free.

And i'm sure you know this, but it bears repeating: working with fire should never be a casual thing. You think it ahead. Your choreo should not be an improv. You should know ahead of time when and where the fire will be at all times and the means to put it out. It needs to be rehearsed, several times. Fire is beautiful and is awesome for the crowd to watch and will make fantastic pictures, but if stress free is what you want, stick with the LEDs.

(i'm not on here that often these days but if you have questions about fire safety, feel free to pm me)

HTH

Kem

Originally Posted by sabrinabellydancer

I prefer palm torches soaked in alcohol. They have a safer grip and don't drip. Start with 70%. Go up to 90% for larger outdoor flames.


Fire basics:

• Tie hair up
• No synthetic fabrics
• Know where your wind is and when it changes
• Have safety equipment near by at all times, even with votive candles.
• You can never be too careful
• Respect the danger of working with fire

Yes, yes, yes to that list, esp. the last two items. (saw them after I posted)

With palm torches, I like kerosene. I feel it's a good midway point as it burns slower than alcohol and transfers less, and it is less messy/smoky than lamp oil.

@Kem:
lots of good info in there! thanks!! :)
a lot i won't need to worry about any time soon (playing with water at the mo, as suggested :) any not planning any performance anytime soon, and when i do, i'll definitely start with LED! i'm sometimes a it of a klutz, gonna take some time before i'm confident enough to try real flame)
But it's a lot of interesting stuff to think about. had never thought of the 'no improv' thing, good point there.
Thanks for all the info in this thread gals!! :)

making plans sweetie?

they sometimes have them at Ikea for X-mas

I'm a fire dancer but I generally deal with much bigger fire, though I will throw in a few cents of thought.

I was helping another dancer in the area with her first palm candle dance with new candles. In the past, she danced with tealights but she upgraded to the candle bowls. They have that adjustable wick that you can pull out to make the fire bigger or stuff down in there to make it smaller. Anyway, the show was inside and this particular number would last about 4 minutes. She wanted very small flame (she's still not cozy with bigger fire), so the amount of burn time was also shortened. Lamp oil has a high flash point, which means it ignites at a hotter temperature. This means you have to hold the open flame source to the wick for longer (about 4-5 seconds) for it to get hot and ignite. The ignition is small so it's good if you are nervous about volatile bursts of fire. But it can effect your choreography and timing, so keep that in mind. So...in order to adjust ignition speed, I filled the wick with lamp oil and topped it off with white gas. It ignited instantly but held the duration of the lamp oil. I've done this for my huge fire swords in the past. A good soak in lamp oil and a topped off portion of white gas.

Here's a little more info on the two most used fuels if you decide to venture into the realm of fire:

Lamp oil:

less volatile than white gas
high flash point
burns hotter than white gas (difficult to eat or flesh with, more painful)
longer duration of burn
smaller flame (don't get me wrong, you have enough kevlar wicking and it'll be big, just not AS big)

White gas (Coleman's camp fuel and my personal preference):

more volatile
lower flash point
does not burn as hot, making fleshing and eating much easier and safer
medium burn duration
bigger flame

I've performed a few candle dances before and I prefer using the liquid candle oil fuel cells.
They come in small 1oz. sizes, so they fit in votive candle holders if you want a pretty base, and since they are disposable the tops are sealed so there is no chance of spilled wax problems like tealights.

I've found them in craft stores such as Michaels or JoAnns, but you can also find them easily online: 1oz Liquid Candle

Sometime you can get lucky and find them with colored flame oil. I used to have a set that burned a green flame and they were a big hit.

I love dancing with candles. I was really nervous about it at first as I used to be quite scared of fire, I started dancing with it to face the fear. The wax really doesn't hurt that bad if it drips but you don't want to wear your favorite costume until you really get the hang of it. I bought these little glass ice cream dishes at Goodwill that work perfectly for candles with a little hot glue to keep them from rolling around.

I hate the LED candles, all the ones I've ever practiced with fell apart in my dance bag or quit working. I got the ones that I tried out at Michaels and they were pretty cheaply made. I've seen some that look a little nicer at flower shops though, they look like real wax. But I've never bought them.

When we dance outside, we cut a super tampon in half, wrap the edges in tin foil as well as lining the bottom of the glass in foil to keep it cool to the touch, then drip lamp oil on it with a dropper until it is soaked. The flame stays relatively low (about 6 inches) and goes for about 10 minutes, which is longer than my torches do. The only problem is the soot that lines the glass makes the flame less visible, so it works better if it's really dark.

Can you guys please give me some examples or suggestions of musics to dance with fire: either shamadan, candles and fire fans???

Thank you so much!