Thread: sensitive obesity issue

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

It was about the ethics of telling someone they received a bad reaction from the audience. At what point do you have an obligation to clue another dancer in on the fact that other people are saying negative things about them? Do you ever have that responsibility? What if the person would want to be told?

There's a while world of difference between telling someone that (for example) people were saying bad things about them for dancing to religious music, and that people were saying bad things about them because they are fat. It's a case by case basis. Inappropriate music choice - clue them in. But as has already been said, a large woman is most likely aware that her size attracts negative attention already. Unless you're a close friend (and it sounds like the OP is not) it's none of your damn business. Go comment on some Youtube videos.

I daresay that any "fat" person knows she's "fat" (and a good many who aren't seem to think they are), and I'd be willing to bet that all, if not most, "fat" people are well aware of the social stigma surrounding their size. If this dancer has reached a point where she is comfortable baring her belly in public--or maybe isn't quite, but is willing to do so to fit in with her troupe--then more power to her. I think the last thing she needs is some well-meaning buttinski telling her that someone reacted negatively to the sight of her.

We don't know this dancer, how she feels about her body, or how emotionally resilient she is. Maybe she's more insulted by the idea that other dancers feel they need to protect her from what gets said than the what-was-actually-said part. It isn't automatically right to tiptoe around her going, "We can't say anything that might hurt her feelings or embarrass her...BECAUSE SHE'S FAT" in a dramatic stage whisper, either. That's implying we think she's basically a child who has to be shielded from the cruel, grown-up world, instead an adult who's capable of making choices for herself. What if the "it's not our business" part isn't in telling her, but deciding for her what she can and can't handle?

Let's take fat out of it and let's pretend people can't get over the fact I'm 4'10 and thin. Or that I'm East Asian. Or that my legs bow a bit.

I would seriously wonder why someone I don't know well would need to share that info with me, telling me that they heard multiple negative comments from the audience. There's nothing I could do about most of that that doesn't require expensive surgery and some of that really couldn't be changed that much.

If my bra wasn't fitting so well and about to flash people, that's worthwhile to know. If my music choice wasn't appropriate, worthwhile to know. Not only are these things that can easily be fixed but also are things that occur out of unawareness. I've seen more women who are worried about performing because they aren't this mythical body shape than ones who do not believe that it isn't an issue.

I don't think it's about treating people like they're children but understanding that not every piece of info that could be shared is useful and filtering that.

On the flip side of it, would you feel inclined to share that multiple people thought a dancer was the epitome of this dance?

Originally Posted by indigostars

Let's take fat out of it and let's pretend people can't get over the fact I'm 4'10 and thin. Or that I'm East Asian. Or that my legs bow a bit.

I would seriously wonder why someone I don't know well would need to share that info with me, telling me that they heard multiple negative comments from the audience. There's nothing I could do about most of that that doesn't require expensive surgery and some of that really couldn't be changed that much.

Exactly.

We're assuming her reaction would be to be self-conscious and pull back, and in many cases, it probably would be, but honestly, I suspect it would make Ragen Chastain's day if someone insulted her, because she seems to thrive on picking fights with people who comment on her size. Without knowing the situation, we don't know how this dancer would react. Some people are rather fond of the idea that they can stand up for themselves, and they feel belittled by the implication that everybody else has to handle them with kid gloves because they're so fragile and different.

I don't want to dance for an audience that doesn't want to watch me. I don't want to be misled by the good intentions of strangers into thinking I'm dancing for an audience that enjoys me if they don't. Why can't it be empowering to have the choice to walk away from people who don't appreciate you so you can focus your energies on people who do? Nothing about that implies you have to change your appearance.

If some of the audience doesn't want to watch you, they can get up out of their seats and let the audience who wants to watch enjoy the performance in peace.

This thread has become so silly I would laugh if I knew that people weren't serious.

A little bit late for this but thought I would throw in my thoughts too.

I've struggled with body issues my whole life. I am very sensitive to what people think about my body size. Sometimes I think about giving up dancing because I fear being laughed at while I am on stage. And don't think that I don't see and hear people in the audience because I am not oblivious. It is a constant struggle with myself to get up on the stage. But I find when i am dancing that my weight doesn't matter to me . . . the music takes over and i forget.

Before I get on the stage, I try to costume myself as it suits me. I am short with large breasts, etc. I have always felt more comfortable in a dress. It doesn't have to be a galabeya but a nice DRESS . . . for me, it looks better overall because there is no big break between the twin mountains and the large derriere, etc. I don't want to feel like I am blinding some with light bouncing off the enormous bouncing belly and drawing too much attention to that area . .. although a lot of large paillettes can be quite useful to do that too, hehe.

Not sure what point I am trying to make about my dancing other than, I'd rather the people be able to focus on my dancing and not a bad costume choice . . . although i can probably still do something stupid with a dress . . . like the time my hip sash fell down but I didn't notice until I bowed.

My parting thoughts though are about a performance in Los Angeles this past Friday night for Stars of Spring show (workshops with Aida Nour, Khaled Mahmoud and Camelia). As in many shows at big workshops, there was a parade of dancers for about 4 hours, including myself . . . lots of pretty young trim women in gorgeous costumes too :-). My contribution was a baladi taksim and I was wearing my black and silver Hanan galabeya (someone always tells me they want my costume after these shows, lol).

Next day in Khaled Mahmoud's workshop, he said to the whole class that he was so happy about the show the night before because it was such a variety and not only the styles of the acts but also of the dancers . . . all ages, all sizes and all genders :-). Everyone loved what Khaled said and it made many dancers feel much better to hear that he appreciates ALL dancers.

FYI, I fit in to the part of the old fat lady to be blunt (going on 61 in May) . . . I thank my lucky stars that I am still going strong . . . I don't feel old or fat . . . maybe I don't feel like a lady some days either but I always want to be tastefully costumed. I just hope that I can continue doing what I do for a very long time . . . regardless of what other people think about me . . . I've always got my living room and I'll always be dancing in my heart.

And it was fun watching you dance because it was obvious that you were having fun!


{{{HUGS}}}

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

Why can't it be empowering to have the choice to walk away from people who don't appreciate you so you can focus your energies on people who do?

What sort of "empowering" is that? If you're telling the dancer in question that people see her as fat, what sort of "choice" is that giving her? It's basically giving her the choice to NOT do what she's already been doing, ie, giving her the choice to give up dancing publicly.

Here's the thing:

She's already freakin' empowered!!! (and believe me, in my head, I'm not saying "freakin'"!)

She didn't need some backhanded comment about audience feedback to get her up on a professional stage, despite not being of "commercial appearance". So if anybody wants to comment about what the audience has said, that's NOT about empowering her. It's about limiting and disenfranchising her.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

We're assuming her reaction would be to be self-conscious and pull back, and in many cases, it probably would be, but honestly, I suspect it would make Ragen Chastain's day if someone insulted her, because she seems to thrive on picking fights with people who comment on her size. Without knowing the situation, we don't know how this dancer would react. Some people are rather fond of the idea that they can stand up for themselves, and they feel belittled by the implication that everybody else has to handle them with kid gloves because they're so fragile and different.

That's not what I am assuming...but thank you for making negative assumptions for and about us.

As for making assumptions about Ragen Chastin's drive and motivation...I haz no words, Turbs.

Anybody who has ever danced for an audience could tell you when they are getting a less than superb reaction. Just saying.

And yeah, that could be due to all sorts of things, like the audience not being warmed up yet, or cultural difference, or the dancer's big fatty fatness, or the dancer wearing glasses, or the dancer having an artificial limb, or the dancer being kind of horrendous; but while you cannot tell, unless you are very close, that those are the reasons for the negative reaction, you can still tell when an audience is less than into it.

When it comes to shows, the people who put on the shows make the decisions, actually, not the audience. If the audience doesn't like it the audience may leave. Or ***** in the bar afterwards, or never return again.

I am sure there are plenty of showrunners who say "not having X or Y again, for they suck", just as they also say "we must have Troupe B because even though they are kind of horrendous, they bring lots of friends to every show".

I am not usually one for quotes but came across this one just a day or two ago, which I think applies directly.

“Tenderness and Kindness are not signs of weakness and despair;
But manifestations of Strength and Resolution.” ~ Kahlil Gibran

I can't imagine this original audience who were indelicate enough to comment like this, were careful to keep all expression off their face, or make sure their remarks were in audible. Wouldn't it be nice if this dancer, who probably does NOT feel acceptance from parts of society, felt totally comfortable in the bellydance world? Wouldn't it be nice if she had 1 completely safe place?

HA! Oh good lord, that is HILARIOUS - that we should pass along hateful things to a dancer because she might ENJOY hearing it because she might thrive on picking fights! In fact, it would be RUDE not to pass on a comment she didn't overhear so that she could have the choice of not hearing it (well... except now I TOLD her she can't help but hear it, but let's not argue semantics).n That's the funniest damn thing I think I've ever read!

Gawd knows it's totally not exhausting putting yourself out there knowing you might get negative comments, and for sure nobody deserves a lucky break from hearing it. We absolutely must make sure that nobody has the great fortune of NOT overhearing a negative comment, and make damn sure they know it was made! Because it's empowering! Also, I can totally absolve myself of the impact and responsibility of repeating that hateful comment because hey, it wasn't ME making it! I was just repeating it! I mean sure, it was me bringing it to her ears, and causing her to deal with it, but it wasn't really ME who started it! And she might like it! Who am I to withhold that choice for her?!

I am definitely going to remember this next time I might consider taking the moral high ground a letting a dancer do her own thing on stage in whatever costuming, body shape, hair length, physical appearance or ability and really can't afford to pass up the opportunity to empower her to face her demons. Hey dancer! That performance was probably great, but I couldn't get past the fact that you're old, you have short hair, you're too scrawny and you wear glasses! Just wanted to let you know so you could walk away from me in your skinny old glasses-wearing empowerment. Wow, I am such a good person, check you walkin' away with your head held high. Go me! YOU'RE WELCOME.

Originally Posted by indigostars

Her weight may not be such a relatively simple "fix" and is something she is more than likely aware of and/or is trying to lose;.

Agreed. Maybe she dieted and like for many of us, it didn't work. Maybe she is dieting, but the results aren't showing yet. And if she isn't dieting, either by choice or by circumstance, then the comments of dude in the third row are the last reason she should start one.

Originally Posted by kemintiri

Agreed. Maybe she dieted and like for many of us, it didn't work. Maybe she is dieting, but the results aren't showing yet. And if she isn't dieting, either by choice or by circumstance, then the comments of dude in the third row are the last reason she should start one.

And maybe she used to be 350 pounds and through great diet and lots of exercise she has plateaued at a mere 200.

And yes - what she does with her own body is her own choice. It's HER body.

To be fair, the OP was wondering whether to speak to the troup leader, not the dancer herself.

Originally Posted by jahbie

To be fair, the OP was wondering whether to speak to the troup leader, not the dancer herself.

Yes, but Turbo's suggestion was that *someone* should tell the dancer herself.

Originally Posted by basil1

Ozma- you are right. I did act on it, here.
Everything I quoted in my original post was said to me...not my thoughts. My reaction was that I basically changed the subject each time it was mentioned because I really didn't know what to say (if I am being honest) and also to redirect the commenting person's attention so that they wouldn't leave the show with their last thought being about the fat girl and it would be about something that I hope was more positive.
I thought the show was great and I was expecting to hear that but...no that's not what I heard at all. I was surprised at the volume of comments because I DON'T feel the same way. One is not normally shocked by things they feel the same about.

My posting this in the first place was due to my frustration, not because I wanted to hurt anyone's feelings. If I wanted to her their feelings I'd just tell them what was said. That is not my intention. It was only to ask if this kind of thing had happened to others and to ask if people thought that costume choice would have made a difference.
I've already said that I thought that the troupe was good and that I have no problem with large ladies performing, at all.
I am a problem solver (not creator) I guess I am trying to figure out how to prevent that from happening next time even though I know that's an impossible task.
If it gets back to the dancer I am sure she will be hurt- that again wasn't my intention. Just trying to figure it all out.

I am sorry but this sounds to me like you are trying to excuse the inexcusable. You posted far too much information about the event and the troupe in question making it very likely that it would be easy to identify the poor dancer in question. If I were her and I found out about this I would be feeling a mixture of both mortification and anger. You might as well have gone up to her and told her exactly what the horrible comments were!

As for the comment about you being a 'problem solver' well firstly she is NOT your 'problem' to fix unless she comes to you and asks for your help and secondly the problem is not the dancer at all but the ignorant person who made the comments.

The issue we should be addressing here is not about dress sizes and dancers but how to deal with rudeness from the GP!

I know that we have veered away from some of the original topic but really, that's where I think I our focus should lay - making the GP aware that talent is what counts not dress size or shoe size!

I doubt there's a single plus size dancer out there who doesn't know that in any audience there's likely to be at least one person thinking 'ew, cover up', one person thinking 'ooh, I wanna hit that' and at least another five who are bored out of their skulls and waiting for their mates to come on/the bar to open

We really, really don't need to be told about them, any more than our troupe leader needs a 'friendly' reminder that 'hey, were you aware that there is a fat chick in your group and people were looking at her?

It's not about 'empowering' us (because really, if you think being told third hand about catty comments on something you can't change is empowering, you need to go read the dictionary. Possibly take notes too.)

Until a fat dancer comes into the thread and says 'yes, I would like to be told about this', I think it should probably be taken on trust that the rest of us plump dancers are speaking for the majority, and not because we are trembling little piles of dough that need protecting from the mean opinions of the outside world, but because we don't need to hear it!

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

To me, it feels kind of patronizing to withhold this information from her. It may be sparing her feelings in the short term to sweep it under the rug, but if the truth comes out, it will undermine her faith that the dancers around her are giving her honest feedback, and that they think enough of her as a person and a performer to defend her right to be on stage. Put yourself in her position: People made cruel remarks about her. Apparently nobody stood up for her in the moment. Other people discussed the incident behind her back. Would you think, "Wow, the other dancers are so considerate! They're really looking out for my best interests!" or "WTF, guys?! I trusted you. I thought you were my friends. Why didn't you at least have the decency to tell me what happened, since this is ABOUT ME?"

snipped - my response covers more than this paragraph

Dear Lord but this seems so many parts of wrong I hardly know where to start! Let me start by asking you a question and just to step back from the dress size issue let's say it's about wearing glasses on stage instead (something that many amateur dancers do). You and your troupe perform a beautifully executed number and yet some idiot in the audience chooses not to comment on the dancing but to focus on the fact that you chose to wear your glasses whilst performing and those comments were incredibly mean-spirited. How would you feel if someone felt you needed to be told about those unkind comments?

You would have to be made of stone not to be hurt a) because someone thought it was fine to snark about you wearing glasses instead of appreciating your dancing and b) equally hurtful that someone in your dance community thought that you ought to be informed of those comments.

I am confused, why on earth would anyone want to tell another human being that someone had made some unkind remarks of such an intensely personal nature? In fact whilst we are on the subject, why would you need to tell the troupe leader about it either?

'Oh, hai, did you hear the unkind, sh*ty comments someone in the audience said about you?'

I am sorry but I'm afraid I would view this as one of the few times when yes, it is absolutely fine to shoot the messenger!

If you feel that it is somehow your duty to pass on those remarks then they had damn well better be backed up with something along the lines of 'but don't worry, I told him that you are a great dancer and that he was rude and ignorant to make such a comment.' Even then I'm still not sure that this doesn't qualify as a shoot the messenger scenario.

It's bad enough when you are a pro dancer who is used to having to deal with negativity as part of one's job but it can be absolutely crushing to hear that kind of crap when you are an amateur.

We should be supporting each other and providing a united front towards these types of mean idiots, one that says that it is talent that counts not shoe size.

Originally Posted by LilithNoor

I doubt there's a single plus size dancer out there who doesn't know that in any audience there's likely to be at least one person thinking 'ew, cover up', one person thinking 'ooh, I wanna hit that' and at least another five who are bored out of their skulls and waiting for their mates to come on/the bar to open

We really, really don't need to be told about them, any more than our troupe leader needs a 'friendly' reminder that 'hey, were you aware that there is a fat chick in your group and people were looking at her?

It's not about 'empowering' us (because really, if you think being told third hand about catty comments on something you can't change is empowering, you need to go read the dictionary. Possibly take notes too.)

Until a fat dancer comes into the thread and says 'yes, I would like to be told about this', I think it should probably be taken on trust that the rest of us plump dancers are speaking for the majority, and not because we are trembling little piles of dough that need protecting from the mean opinions of the outside world, but because we don't need to hear it!

Yes, yes, yes!

It would be my guess that by this point the OP is wishing she had never started this thread.

But based on the life it has taken on (7 pages of posts in just a few days!) this is a subject that many of us feel strongly about.

The unfortunate thing is that while the dancer in question or her troupe leader may eventually see this discussion (if not already mortified by it) but the people who made the remarks that started all this angst will most likely never be aware of the true depth of discomfort they inflicted.

Over the years, I've had more than my share of unsupportive garbage leveled at me for wearing glasses. I've lost count of the number of "helpful" critics who've told me my wearing glasses "ruined" (and that's always their word choice) their enjoyment of my performance. I've been cut from troupe numbers and excluded from gigs because of my glasses. They come right out and tell me my physical limitation makes me unacceptable and inferior, and you know what? Good for them. Thanks for being honest. Say it to my face so I don't have to waste my time wondering if it's my imagination that you have a problem with me. Let me know where I stand, so I can decide for myself which opportunities I want to put myself out there for (knowing there's always some chance I'll get knocked again) and which opportunities I want to skip, because I'm stuck with this handicap and I'm not going to jeopardize myself by wandering around blind in pursuit of a standard beauty that isn't happening for me at this age anyway.

With full conviction, yes, I can say that if I danced at a show and if multiple audience members had a problem with my glasses and other dancers knew it but nobody told me, I would be far more disappointed and hurt by the conduct of my fellow dancers than the opinions of the crowd. I'd be miffed at the audience, but I'd feel betrayed by the dance community, especially if my teacher/troupe leader was in on it. I'm depending on her (if not outright paying her) to tell me the truth. It's not sparing my feelings to hide from me if I'm failing in my basic mission to entertain. It's deluding me. I want to know if one out of ninety or ten out of thirty people were dissatisfied enough to criticize me in public, because I use that information to estimate how accepted I'll be at future gigs, and I know going into it that not everybody loves a belly dancer in glasses, and dancing without them isn't an option for me. If you (whoever "you" are) want to make different choices about the feedback you get, that's fine, but I don't want to subsist on lies of omission. This is my choice, and I don't want someone else deciding what I can and can't know behind my back, because they chose a different personal relationship with audience reactions.

Well, Tourbeau, I'm really sorry that you've had to deal with that kind of treatment re. your glasses, but I think you are an anomaly on this topic.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

Over the years, I've had more than my share of unsupportive garbage leveled at me for wearing glasses. I've lost count of the number of "helpful" critics who've told me my wearing glasses "ruined" (and that's always their word choice) their enjoyment of my performance. I've been cut from troupe numbers and excluded from gigs because of my glasses. They come right out and tell me my physical limitation makes me unacceptable and inferior, and you know what? Good for them. Thanks for being honest. Say it to my face so I don't have to waste my time wondering if it's my imagination that you have a problem with me. Let me know where I stand, so I can decide for myself which opportunities I want to put myself out there for (knowing there's always some chance I'll get knocked again) and which opportunities I want to skip, because I'm stuck with this handicap and I'm not going to jeopardize myself by wandering around blind in pursuit of a standard beauty that isn't happening for me at this age anyway.

With full conviction, yes, I can say that if I danced at a show and if multiple audience members had a problem with my glasses and other dancers knew it but nobody told me, I would be far more disappointed and hurt by the conduct of my fellow dancers than the opinions of the crowd. I'd be miffed at the audience, but I'd feel betrayed by the dance community, especially if my teacher/troupe leader was in on it. I'm depending on her (if not outright paying her) to tell me the truth. It's not sparing my feelings to hide from me if I'm failing in my basic mission to entertain. It's deluding me. I want to know if one out of ninety or ten out of thirty people were dissatisfied enough to criticize me in public, because I use that information to estimate how accepted I'll be at future gigs, and I know going into it that not everybody loves a belly dancer in glasses, and dancing without them isn't an option for me. If you (whoever "you" are) want to make different choices about the feedback you get, that's fine, but I don't want to subsist on lies of omission. This is my choice, and I don't want someone else deciding what I can and can't know behind my back, because they chose a different personal relationship with audience reactions.

Really? You don't want to dance unless EVERYONE loves you? And you feel empowered by choosing not to dance because 1 out of 100 didn't like it enough that they told you, after the fact, when you can't change it?

So...I have to ask...how often do you get to perform?

I try to be as entertaining as possible knowing full well I can't please everyone for various reasons, including size, costume, music choice, dancing, and because they happen to be in a crappy mood that day.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

Over the years, I've had more than my share of unsupportive garbage leveled at me for wearing glasses. I've lost count of the number of "helpful" critics who've told me my wearing glasses "ruined" (and that's always their word choice) their enjoyment of my performance. I've been cut from troupe numbers and excluded from gigs because of my glasses. They come right out and tell me my physical limitation makes me unacceptable and inferior, and you know what? Good for them. Thanks for being honest. Say it to my face so I don't have to waste my time wondering if it's my imagination that you have a problem with me. Let me know where I stand, so I can decide for myself which opportunities I want to put myself out there for (knowing there's always some chance I'll get knocked again) and which opportunities I want to skip, because I'm stuck with this handicap and I'm not going to jeopardize myself by wandering around blind in pursuit of a standard beauty that isn't happening for me at this age anyway.

With full conviction, yes, I can say that if I danced at a show and if multiple audience members had a problem with my glasses and other dancers knew it but nobody told me, I would be far more disappointed and hurt by the conduct of my fellow dancers than the opinions of the crowd. I'd be miffed at the audience, but I'd feel betrayed by the dance community, especially if my teacher/troupe leader was in on it. I'm depending on her (if not outright paying her) to tell me the truth. snip for space

And as an audience member, I am saddened when I am deprived of the beautiful dancing that I *know* many women are capable of when they allow the comments of RUDE AND "HELPFUL" people to prevent them from dancing.

Look, when Fifi Abdo went to Dallas and did a workshop and performance, did you think she didn't realize that she was over her "fighting" weight and older? DANCERS FLOCKED! If I hadn't been in the midst of a huge crisis, I would have been one of them.

I would respectfully suggest that that there is a difference between CONSTRUCTIVE critique and the bashing that anyone who has stood on a "stage" in any venue has gotten from the GP, fellow dancers, etc.

And, as a dancer, if someone came out and said that your glasses distracted and "RUINED" the performance for them, I would shake my head sadly for just what a superficial viewpoint they had.

You take the good with the bad, try to absorb what helps you and discard the rest of it.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

With full conviction, yes, I can say that if I danced at a show and if multiple audience members had a problem with my glasses and other dancers knew it but nobody told me, I would be far more disappointed and hurt by the conduct of my fellow dancers than the opinions of the crowd. I'd be miffed at the audience, but I'd feel betrayed by the dance community, especially if my teacher/troupe leader was in on it. I'm depending on her (if not outright paying her) to tell me the truth. It's not sparing my feelings to hide from me if I'm failing in my basic mission to entertain. It's deluding me. I want to know if one out of ninety or ten out of thirty people were dissatisfied enough to criticize me in public, because I use that information to estimate how accepted I'll be at future gigs, and I know going into it that not everybody loves a belly dancer in glasses, and dancing without them isn't an option for me. If you (whoever "you" are) want to make different choices about the feedback you get, that's fine, but I don't want to subsist on lies of omission. This is my choice, and I don't want someone else deciding what I can and can't know behind my back, because they chose a different personal relationship with audience reactions.

I think glasses might not be the best comparasion. Most people can put in a pair of contacts to instantly change their image (I do understand that not everyone can wear contacts). Weight is not something that can be changed immediately.

My first thought when I read this was that if someone in my dance community came up to me and said, "Hey Steph.. I just wanted to let you know that at last week's performance, there were a lot of really nasty things audience members said about your weight", my reaction to that person directly would nonchalance. However, in my heart, I would be hurt because if that person felt it necessary to tell me, then that person must feel the same way. That would be more hurtful to ME then knowing that someone in the audience was uncomfortable with my weight. If it didn't matter to the person, they would have brushed off the comment as not even worth repeating.

I know going into a performance that there are people that are going to think that my dancing in public is disgusting. I also know that my community is there to support me, and if they also thought my dancing was disgusting they would not have invited me to perform in the first place.

But that's just me...

Originally Posted by tigerb

You are a credit to your teacher and I am always pleased to see you performing! The memory of you and Kels "high fiving" each other in that duet at the hafla still makes me smile.

Thanks, girl!

Originally Posted by yaalini

So...I have to ask...how often do you get to perform?

I don't solicit GP gigs, so far less than I could if this wasn't an issue. It's simply not worth the aggravation to me.

Originally Posted by indigostars

Well, Tourbeau, I'm really sorry that you've had to deal with that kind of treatment re. your glasses, but I think you are an anomaly on this topic.

Well, now that you mention it, the whole conversation is based on what we're assuming are anomalies, namely the individuals who were so distressed by this dancer that they felt the need to say something out loud. Considering how much the idea of politeness as a deterrent has come up in this thread, it would be quite reasonable to speculate that some other unknown percentage of audience members shared similar opinions, but felt it was improper to express them as bluntly and publicly as those people did. Not that one should live in fear of what people might possibly be thinking, but either the known skew points are part of the discussion or they aren't.

At any rate, I've said my piece and the rationale behind it. Unless the thread takes off on another tangent, I don't have anything else to add.