Thread: sensitive obesity issue

There may come a point (hopefully never), when I decide that having negative comments directed at me while I dance is just too much and that I don't want to deal with that anymore. Giving up is a valid choice and one I am free to make and that I reserve the right to make if I deem it necessary. But giving up something I love to do, as valid a choice as that is, and as good as my reasons are, is not something empowering.

As I think more...

In life, not everyone is going to like you, for some reason or another. In work, in hobbies, in EVERYTHING.

I sure as hell don't plan on wasting time worrying about how many people may or may not like me as a coworker/jewelry maker/dancer. I won't be keeping a list somewhere of what stores I can shop in, what work functions I can go to, or performance venues/events are or are not okay for me to dance in.

It's taken 28 years to accept myself the way I am, and to understand that when it comes down to it, the most important thing is doing something that makes ME happy - regardless of my size.

Admittedly if someone tells me they didn't like my performance because of an appearance thing (weight, glasses, that type of thing), I'd be hurt.

And then I'd seriously consider plotting a group choreography with as many dancers with those "appearance flaws" as possible. The one "fat dancer" ruined a performance for you? How about 15 "fat dancers"? Then no one stands out

Would it happen? Nah, but I like to think about it.

Originally Posted by yaalini

And then I'd seriously consider plotting a group choreography with as many dancers with those "appearance flaws" as possible. The one "fat dancer" ruined a performance for you? How about 15 "fat dancers"? Then no one stands out.
Would it happen? Nah, but I like to think about it.

*snort*

Originally Posted by yaalini

Admittedly if someone tells me they didn't like my performance because of an appearance thing (weight, glasses, that type of thing), I'd be hurt.

And then I'd seriously consider plotting a group choreography with as many dancers with those "appearance flaws" as possible. The one "fat dancer" ruined a performance for you? How about 15 "fat dancers"? Then no one stands out

Would it happen? Nah, but I like to think about it.

That was awesome!!!

Originally Posted by yaalini

I'd seriously consider plotting a group choreography with as many dancers with those "appearance flaws" as possible. The one "fat dancer" ruined a performance for you? How about 15 "fat dancers"? Then no one stands out

Oooh, count me in! I'm fat and I wear glasses and I have some impressive scarring to various appendages. I'm like a triple whammy of things to get judgemental about, and that's before I even open my mouth!

I once saw a fantastic performance of a troupe with about half short fat dancers and half tall thin ones. The costumes were the same colour but with subtle differences for the two groups to make them flattering. At times the choreography diverged with each group doing moves that looked best on their body type. Must have been quite a feat to choreograph and make all the dancers look good - and make them look like a troupe - not just two groups on stage at the same time.

Originally Posted by LilithNoor

Oooh, count me in! I'm fat and I wear glasses and I have some impressive scarring to various appendages. I'm like a triple whammy of things to get judgemental about, and that's before I even open my mouth!

LOL, I might not qualify as fat but I sure as hell have both the scars and the glasses, so you could count me in too!

Throughout my career I have always gone out of my way to ensure that wherever possible the GP always see a mixture of dancers right across size, age and gender in any show I put on. Dance is empowering and that's the case regardless of who exactly is doing it and I like audiences to be made aware of that. I often use the shoe size analogy because I think it really does bring home to people just how irrelevant size, age (whatever!) is because talent is all that really matters.

The ability and sadly sometimes the enthusiasm that some elements of society demonstrate when it comes to being mean-spirited still astonishes and saddens me and the performing arts is often where this kind puerile behaviour is directed.

Had I been the person who had had to listen to those unkind comments made to the OP I would have been absolutely bloody furious and made sure that they knew it and why. Never, under any circumstances whatsoever would I have then passed on those comments to the person they were aimed at because I cannot see that anything good would come from doing so.

Tourbeau, I am sorry to hear that you have faced discrimination because you wear glasses when you perform, there really is no excuse for that any more than comments about size, age or gender.

Yes, and only to let her know so that if she thought alternative costuming would be appropriate she could make that decision. And I appreciate the answers to that question.

Originally Posted by jahbie

To be fair, the OP was wondering whether to speak to the troup leader, not the dancer herself.

Originally Posted by basil1

Yes, and only to let her know so that if she thought alternative costuming would be appropriate she could make that decision. And I appreciate the answers to that question.

Let me answer that question directly, then.

No.

The troupe director's choice of costuming is between her and her troupe. And no-one should assume that she hasn't already gone through a thoughtful decision-making process to arrive at the costume you/others had issues with.

The choice of "alternative" costuming for the heavy girl is hers alone, although there is some measure of her troupe director's input potentially limiting her choices - for which, see above.

So in all: still no.

Edited to add: (which is not to say you/others can't have an opinion on it, of course, as we all do. Just that it's not for you to weigh in - excuse the terrible pun, totally unintended - on whether or not she's costuming her troupe or her fat girls appropriately. Her choice to have the girl dancing, their choice of costuming, however wise or unwise, end of story.)

Originally Posted by basil1

Yes, and only to let her know so that if she thought alternative costuming would be appropriate she could make that decision. And I appreciate the answers to that question.

I agree with WiggleWhiz - you said right at the start that the show was professional. That implies to me that the troupe leader has put some thought into the costuming (even if it is harem pants ). I doubt she would appreciate someone making comment on her choices.

Originally Posted by basil1

I am a problem solver (not creator) I guess I am trying to figure out how to prevent that from happening next time even though I know that's an impossible task.

I'm sorry but you can not fix stupid.

People are people, and some people are just plain crude. They will find something to snark on and snark it. If nothing is "wrong", they'll invent something to snark. You can handle it any way you like, ignore it, act shocked, be snarky right back, in the long run, it won't matter. They are who they are.

One of my husbands former "friends" thought it would be funny to make me cry over a performance. I knew it was a good show. He moaned and groaned for 15 minutes over a 3 minute routine. I told him the joke wasn't funny - he insisted it wasn't a joke I was really that bad and he was soooo embarrassed for me. I pointed out that he was prolonging his own agony, and finally told him in plain English "You didn't like it. I don't care. Shut up or I will loose my temper". That was when he said he thought I should be crying over his opinion. To top it all off, instead of apologizing for being an ass, he insisted that he was trying to "help" me because performers need thick skin!!! Needless to say I have not spoken to him since. Some people are just a waste of time.

Originally Posted by nitewindz

I'm sorry but you can not fix stupid.

People are people, and some people are just plain crude. They will find something to snark on and snark it. If nothing is "wrong", they'll invent something to snark. You can handle it any way you like, ignore it, act shocked, be snarky right back, in the long run, it won't matter. They are who they are.

One of my husbands former "friends" thought it would be funny to make me cry over a performance. I knew it was a good show. He moaned and groaned for 15 minutes over a 3 minute routine. I told him the joke wasn't funny - he insisted it wasn't a joke I was really that bad and he was soooo embarrassed for me. I pointed out that he was prolonging his own agony, and finally told him in plain English "You didn't like it. I don't care. Shut up or I will loose my temper". That was when he said he thought I should be crying over his opinion. To top it all off, instead of apologizing for being an ass, he insisted that he was trying to "help" me because performers need thick skin!!! Needless to say I have not spoken to him since. Some people are just a waste of time.

Agreed. That kind of person will never apologize for being an ass, that is for sure, as it is their basic nature - no heart, no soul, just 100% ass . I dislike that attitude that a performer has to have a "thick skin" and should just take the abuse with a smile - that just gives permission for the asses of the world to be cruel because they can. Nobody should be a target of abuse, it is unacceptable. I find people often apologize and make excuses for this kind of behavior too, which just gives the twits permission to continue on being a twit. My ex reveled in tearing me down and turning around to tell me I was being "too sensitive" when I became upset, then became angry because I was upset for "no reason". Took me years to realize that I wasn't the problem, he was an abusive jerk. I also have a relative who is a terror at any family gathering, and it was never enjoyable to be around her - haven't spoken to her since she wore out my last shred of patience a few years ago and I kicked her out of my house. NO one up until then stood up to her, so she was oddly surprised that this little mouse did. /anger.

Anyway, for the OP - no, there is no reason to take this to the troupe leader. So a random audience member who was expecting a sanctioned girlie show didn't like that someone didn't fit their fantasy. Tough. They never have to come back, ala the old doctor joke "doctor doctor, it hurts when I do this!....then don't do that...!" Makes more room for those who can appreciate the dancing, rather than those looking for cheap thrills...

Originally Posted by basil1

Yes, and only to let her know so that if she thought alternative costuming would be appropriate she could make that decision. And I appreciate the answers to that question.

Basil, it's not clear to me: Are you someone this troupe director would consider a colleague, or an equal? Are you someone that she would normally turn to for an opinion on matters of her troupe?

I would still echo the people who are saying no. She's already considered her troupe's costuming options and if she wanted your opinion, she would seek it.

You seem to be focusing on the reaction of the few rude audience members. In my region, most shows make little, if any, profit, even the so-called "professonal" ones. The people who produce shows or run troupes still make the majority of their income from teaching. If this woman is at a level where she's performing, she's likely a long-term student or a former student of this troupe director or of someone else. The dance community's bread is most likely buttered on keeping that dancer active. A teacher or troupe director is going to see more money in class fees, troupe fees, etc., from this dancer over the years, or from potential students who are inspired to take classes, than she is from someone who bought a $20 ticket once. One student taking two classes would make up for losing one rude audience member.

Originally Posted by Zumarrad

Costuming has nothing to do with it, as several posters have pointed out; dress the fat girl differently and she stands out just as much, possibly more, due to not only being fat but being dressed differently.

Yes, when someone in a troupe is dressed differently, they stand out. The goal is to choose a costume that flatters everyone in the troupe.

There is no performance dance form that I can think of, except ironically belly dance, where it would not be profoundly shocking that a dancer carried any level of noticeable extra flesh. Dancers in the western tradition are high performance athletes and most of them look like it.

That's a good point. I'd be startled to see an extremely overweight ballet dancer perform with a touring company at a classy theater. I'd also be happy to watch her performance.

The issue isn't the *size* of the person. It's their skill, ability. If they can do it, great! If they can't, then that's a different issue altogether.

As others have said, most of the gp sees bellydancers in settings where the bellydance is just part of the event or entertainment. People are not surprised the German dance troupe at the county fair features heavy dancers of both sexes, or when the teen girls group includes larger girls. And the few people who make unpleasant remarks are just nasty people who will insult anyone just because they can.

Originally Posted by basil1

Yes, and only to let her know so that if she thought alternative costuming would be appropriate she could make that decision. And I appreciate the answers to that question.

No, because she made her decision already. The troupe director likely can see or has sought input on the costumes.

I ask you, in all seriousness, if the dancer in question were white/black/short/tall/thin/too ethnic looking/not ethnic enough looking and that was the focus of the audience in the piece, would you suggest alternative costuming to the troupe director?

And I ask you also, again in all seriousness again, is there some reason why you think this troupe director isn't aware of these things? Or would want that kind of feedback?

There are a lot of aspects of your original post that would make me not share this info. And I say this as a person who often has thought we are not honest enough with our opinions.

One of my husbands former "friends" thought it would be funny to make me cry over a performance. I knew it was a good show. He moaned and groaned for 15 minutes over a 3 minute routine. I told him the joke wasn't funny - he insisted it wasn't a joke I was really that bad and he was soooo embarrassed for me. I pointed out that he was prolonging his own agony, and finally told him in plain English "You didn't like it. I don't care. Shut up or I will loose my temper". That was when he said he thought I should be crying over his opinion. To top it all off, instead of apologizing for being an ass, he insisted that he was trying to "help" me because performers need thick skin!!! Needless to say I have not spoken to him since. Some people are just a waste of time.

Excuse my language, but what an ****ing *******. I'm glad he's a former friend.

The public often thinks belly dancers are supposed to be highly glamorous. Or they think the origin of belly dance is harem slaves dancing for the pleasure of their master. A very large dancer doesnt fit their stereotype so they get pushed out of their comfort zone and say stupid stuff. Its good to challenge peoples stereotypes about our dance but theres the risk of unkind reactions.

I personally wouldnt say anything to the truope director. But if you feel you must please dont repeat those cruel comments verbatim. Just say that some audiecne members were distracted by the way this costuming emphasized the one dancer and then suggest that changing the overall troupe costume to draw less focus to the bellies might be good.

Originally Posted by basil1

Yes, and only to let her know so that if she thought alternative costuming would be appropriate she could make that decision. And I appreciate the answers to that question.

Most troupes that I know of have troupe costuming guidelines.

If the troupe director thought that what her troupe member was wearing was inappropriate, I'm certain that she would have told her before the performance. If, on the off chance, she didn't SEE the costume before the performance (which I find hard to believe) and felt it was inappropriate, I'm sure she's addressed it with her dancer since the performance.

I feel confident in saying that since she has a plus size member in her troupe, she's already considered how costuming looks different on different body types, and that she's aware that some people may be uncomfortable with a bare belly. I'm also sure that both the director and the troupe member are fully aware that some people do not care to see plus size dancers perform (either with or without a bare belly).

So to that end, no, I do not think it is necessary for you to notify the troupe director.

Late to the debate but I can relate to this in terms of age.
If we assume this larger dancer was included by the troupe director, we assume she was acceptable to her.
The reactions of the audience are beyond her control. Fellow dancers and members of the community who understand that even in the "professional" type platform of a staged event, know that is an
inclusive one will accept a larger,older,disabled with little question. A member of the GP brought along to the show might question it. Acceptable that they do so in a private setting where the situation can
be made clear to them not in the hearing of a wider audience. My response ..just plain ignorant and rude. The hafla, theatre,festival shows that we in the West take part in do NOT require us to be commercial in the same way as the those dancers,members of showbusiness dance agencies, who may be hired as for restaurants etc.
You and I may think that wrong..I couldn't care less if my restuarant dancer has a few extra curves or wrinkles but I am not the the GP.
A community show( for want of a different adjective) is a different kettle of fish and any right thinking audience member should realise that. If they wish to point out they would rather not see an extra roll of flesh, bingo wing or chin then they discuss that in private with their nearest and dearest who took them there- and they can remind them of the realities of the show they have just witnessed. The troupe leader will be less concerned about the body shape of her/his dancers as long as they can bl**dy dance.
I assume I am still allowed to grace a dance platform at the age of 65 because I can still dance a bit.
The kind of audience I dance for will not tell me to my face as they know organisers permit me to impose my aging body on them. They can go home and ask their more knowledgeable fellow guest "Why on earth is it
appropriate for that a)old bird b)curvy girl c)male to be entertaining me?" This is very different from a restaranteur saying "Can I have that very glamorous,younger woman at my Turkish night?"
One day it will be more appropraite for me to do something else in the community rather drag myself around the dance floor and I will rely on my own good sense, my friends and mentors to tell me not some stranger who thinks I offend his sensibilities at a community,inclusive celebration.

In some understanding of your ignorant commentator, may I say that the public is very used to the fact that many entertainers are what I call BSA Birds..women with bits stuck anywhere (BSA was also an old style motor cycle I used to own).They see an increasing number of actors,singers,dancers who go completely over the top with enhancement.
Of course we have always "glammed up" but now I see an large number of showbiz and the dreaded celeb who conform to an image.Dieted down to an impossible state of slimness for many then huge breasts tacked on,fillers here ,large lips,gleaming teeth,blonde tresses or raven locks,perfect tanned or ebony skin.Cosmetic surgery is now not about medical necessity but "normal". Adverts everywhere and we all know perfectly ordinary friends who have had breast enhancement for other than physical or mental welfare reasons. I am not passing judgment ..were I "in show business" or the glamour industry I too would want to prolong my career. But inevitably we are creating a world where people begin to look the same, the variety of body shape,face,hair is being subjugated because Hollywood or TV shows us images which are impossible for most to obtain without a lot of expensive surgery or tricky camera work!!! How we love to see clebs with a zit or going bald through hair extensions, their bunions and wrinkly hands.
So put an entertainer with all the "normal" indications of "imperfection" aging/genetic failing/out of fashion on a stage and some ill-informed ("remember darling these are our friends and neighbours not Hollywood royalty") bloke/kid//catty woman in the audience makes a hurtful remark , should we be so surprised at their one-dimentional thought?

Oh my goodness! All the responses in this thread are pretty awesome!

And to the original poster, I agree with what someone mentioned before, You can't fix stupid.

I think the general public is still SOOOOOOOOOO vastly uneducated about belly dance that they really do hold up posters of celebrity figures in their heads next to us and wonder why we don't measure up to what society has told us is what is "supposed to be" up on a stage. So, when women don't fit that mold, especially a plus size woman, lots of people probably do still think, "oh, I don't like watching her" - she distracts my eyes, because our brains like congruent images.

THAT SAID, some people's lack of decent manners or a freaking FILTER over their mouths amazes me at how hurtful they are and think it's just fine. AND, I have experienced the very same thing you describe. Even when I was about 20 pounds lighter than I am now, people at belly dance shows would come and tell me, "what's that fat dancers name?" "why didn't that heavy girl cover herself up?" Because she is CONFIDENT IN WHO SHE IS, THAT'S WHY!

I would have said: ALL OF THE DANCERS PERFORMED BEAUTIFULLY IN THIS PROFESSIONAL SHOW, AND EVERYONE WORKED REALLY HARD TO MAKE IT AS AWESOME AS IT WAS AND THIS DANCE FORM IS ACCEPTING OF ALL WOMEN IN THIS COUNTRY!!

and p.s. I qualify as a plus size dancer. On average, I wear a size 14 street clothes, I just got sort of lucky that my extra curves distributed themselves in a halfway reasonable manner. ha!

Although I've never been on the larger end of the spectrum I will completely back up a dancer's choice to bare her belly, no matter what size she is. It's her right to show off her comfort level and if people think its "taboo", they need to check their prejudice.

Insisting that a larger dancer wear a belly cover just so other people are more comfortable is, IMO, a horrible suggestion. It smacks of hypocracy if we are also talking about how wonderful this dance form is for people of all shapes/sizes. If the dancer choses to wear a dress or cover of her own volition, that is a different thing.

The only way we are going to create change about women's bodies is by constant exposure to them, in whatever fashion they show up.

Leeza,
Thank you so much for this. I hate that the negative comments were made at all to anyone, at the same time I am glad to hear that I am not the only one that has ever been put on the spot like that. In other words had you not had that experience you couldn't have given that awesome answer You're replys, in the unfortunate situation that I would need them again, are perfect.

Originally Posted by Leeza_Dance

Oh my goodness! All the responses in this thread are pretty awesome!

And to the original poster, I agree with what someone mentioned before, You can't fix stupid.

I think the general public is still SOOOOOOOOOO vastly uneducated about belly dance that they really do hold up posters of celebrity figures in their heads next to us and wonder why we don't measure up to what society has told us is what is "supposed to be" up on a stage. So, when women don't fit that mold, especially a plus size woman, lots of people probably do still think, "oh, I don't like watching her" - she distracts my eyes, because our brains like congruent images.

THAT SAID, some people's lack of decent manners or a freaking FILTER over their mouths amazes me at how hurtful they are and think it's just fine. AND, I have experienced the very same thing you describe. Even when I was about 20 pounds lighter than I am now, people at belly dance shows would come and tell me, "what's that fat dancers name?" "why didn't that heavy girl cover herself up?" Because she is CONFIDENT IN WHO SHE IS, THAT'S WHY!

I would have said: ALL OF THE DANCERS PERFORMED BEAUTIFULLY IN THIS PROFESSIONAL SHOW, AND EVERYONE WORKED REALLY HARD TO MAKE IT AS AWESOME AS IT WAS AND THIS DANCE FORM IS ACCEPTING OF ALL WOMEN IN THIS COUNTRY!!

and p.s. I qualify as a plus size dancer. On average, I wear a size 14 street clothes, I just got sort of lucky that my extra curves distributed themselves in a halfway reasonable manner. ha!

It's great to see so many people are passionate about this topic. Women come in all shapes and sizes. If one troupe member is a head taller then the others, should she chop off her ankles? If only one troupe member had dark skin, should she lighten it up to "fit in". No. And neither should a women who is confident in herself and her curves have to cover up, or not dance at all. The question should be about the dancer's abilityand how the troup works together not about one member's differentiation from the others.

Throwing in my 2 bobs, but d**kheads are everywhere and you will always find a couple of them in audiences no matter what. To reiterate, no one needs to have those sh**ty comments repeated back to them. The only person who benefits out of that situation is the person who said it in the first place. They are best forgotten as the slimy insect that they are and can return under their rock they crawled out from at the first available opportunity.

I danced regularly as a size 18/20 (Oz/UK) and it never held me back. Admittedly, being an apple shape, bedlah's are the most unattractive costume on my body type as I found out the hard way, and when I was in a troupe, as we were all either large or over the age of 50 (except for me was the youngest in my 30s), we used to wear beladi dresses as we could coordinate easily, no one had to show their belly as none of us liked to anyway, and suited our dancing as we used to perform more baladi and saidi than oriental.

For those of you holding back because of perceived imperfections, let them go. People are going to be nasty no matter what, you don't need to know about it as there will always be some morons spouting off about perceived or real imperfections.

I actually like it when we do challenge audiences, as I'm sick of the stereotypes of this dance, and love it when people shake it up

I think the more we challenge the better, the more we stick our supposed imperfections out there, the more we give permission to the people who have been holding back trying the dance because of all the stereotypes. We may not hear from those people, we may not realise that we have inspired people to move through their fears. Think about it if all dances were "perfect" looking (general entertainment standard) would that inspire the the GP to take up the dance?

Tourbeau, regarding issues about glasses, I've actually seen dancers in a professional theatre show wear them. I saw it on video and it really isn't that noticeable. I think the worst issues is glare from the lights, but really are you going to let every petty person stop you from dancing because of glasses? I mean think about it, if we listened to every single negative comment about our dancing, isn't it inevitable that you will stop dancing - why let these people win?

I have respect for professionals, and if one of them said something to me about something they didn't like, I will listen, but I don't have to take on board their likes and dislikes unless they are paying me. And that for me is the final arbiter - if they pay me then I have to go with what they say and their worries about audience opinions, but if I am not receiving any payment for a performance, then people's opinions can go and get stuffed!

Well, here's my 2 cents.

People come in all shapes and sizes. If someone is hiring a dancer for a private party, then it is their choice to pick the body type they prefer. Otherwise, they get what they get. Presumably if the show is professional, then the dancers are trained well and dance well, whatever their body type.

As for whether to tell the troupe director---I really doubt you need to. I am certain the director has heard it all already, and has already made her decisions regarding costuming. Or, maybe she would like to suggest netting or alternative costuming but is concerned she would hurt the dancer's feelings so chooses not to. Either way, I doubt that it would be productive to share the hurtful comments with her.

As for what I would say to people who make those comments? Generally if someone comments to me about a dancer's weight, and I have seen the dancer perform and she is a well-trained performer, I just say (and honestly mean it) that I love to watch xyz perform because I really appreciate that she has so much self confidence in her own body, and that I am amazed by her (insert whatever amazes me here--because something about every dancer amazes me--be it gracefulness, musicality, interpretation, use of props, flexibility, bone structure, whatever). That usually shuts people up pretty quick.

I started reading this thread, and have now realised that over an hour has past as I did so. There have been quite a range of comments made, and you've all given me some things to think on. By that I mean, how I would react in the various story scenarios presented, whether my initial reaction would be the most beneficial and helpful. Also, whether I agree or disagree with certain comments. Food for thought, and consideration.

I really love belly dance; as an art form, a personal expression, an exercise method, and a hobby. I dance for myself, but if through my passion for dancing I were able to encourage another woman to share that joy with me, I would be thrilled.

This is a difficult one for me, I have been pro, at a size 12, then I stuffed my back and put on 60kg and I am now morbidly obese (although most people don't consider me so to look at me, overweight but they don't believe what the scales say). I am also a costumer, I make costumes for myself and for other people who pay me. I also on occasion and when my arm can be twisted, make wedding gowns. So *perhaps* I speak with slight authority on both body and costume issues. While I am an advocate of all women should perform in shows if they are up to scratch (dance wise), they must also be up to scratch costume wise. But this I apply to all sizes, unfortunately the comments I have heard from audiences (you learn alot when your back is so stuffed you are an audience member far more than a performer) is usually more directed at bigger girls in ill conceived and sized costumes. I remember seeing one girl in particular many years ago who was about a 16 (not big at all in my opinion) but she was wearing a size 12 costume. Muffin top didn't come close, and I was pretty sure there was nip slip action there a couple of times. Now I couldn't tell you now who else danced in that troupe or what they danced, I just remember being *horrified* at this woman doing very large shoulder shimmies and I seriously could not look away for the life of me. For me it wasn't revulsion but pity and anger at the troupe leader for letting her get on a stage looking like that. I think in a costume that fit, she would have looked great. I've also seen this issue with thinner girls who wear too little, and believe me there are a fair few negative comments about that. I also think that while some *men* might say they are not complaining, they are considering the dancer yet again on her body image and in a negative and derogatory way so just as bad as calling her fat in my book.

Perhaps some responsibility lies with costume designers who need to address the different needs of a large dancer, and while I prefer body stockings (NOT FLESH COLOURED!!!) for the line it gives me, I don't think someone should *have* to wear one just because they are fat or scarred or old. But an appropriate costume (style and size), yes. And that goes for all sizes. Even as a 12, I still have E cup boobs so I have never been able to buy a costume, because apparently you have no taste once you reach DD, and also I know I need bra with far better construction and support. Maybe that's why I don't look as big, I dress in stuff that fits? (at least on stage lol).

Anyway I don't know what this girl wore on stage so it's just speculation. But I know the negative stuff I hear in the audience is usually down to a poor costuming choice that accentuates the negatives and doesn't celebrate the positives and many people cannot articulate that so just say *she was a fatty*.

Love that comment tht apparently we have no taste when we get past DD cups. I would say it is probably when you get past C/D cups.

I hesitated to revive this thread, but I appreciate Blue Ree Artisan's comments about costuming. Proper fit and style makes such a difference to every body type. There are a few people who can look good wearing anything, but most of us have to learn how to make ourselves look as good as possible with strategic costuming choices.

My response to the people who questioned whether a body stocking really makes a difference - there is an amazing photo on the Belly Dancing Direct Facebook page of a woman with and without the body stocking. She was a young woman who had lost a significant amount of weight, and had loose skin (this happens and only surgery can correct it after a very large weight loss). (That's why I wear body stockings - loose skin after child bearing and weight loss.)

Here's a link to the photo album on FB, don't know if it will work: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

I've always felt that part of being a belly dance performer is to create an illusion of beauty. Sure very few of us are perfect beauties, so that's why we do what we can to look good on stage. I think we owe it to our audiences to look as good as we can. And I believe there are many different kinds of beauty - the young, thin and big-boobed is truly not as interesting to me as a seasoned performer who knows what she is doing and presents herself well, at any size.