Thread: history of double veil dance?

I posted this in a facebook group as well but figured I'd post here..looking for articles, video clips, etc on the history of double veil

thank you!

Good topic, I look forward to hearing what people have to say about this. I always heard that it was a West Coast (of the U.S.) invention. My friend Deena Mauer is a master of double veils. Saqra is also great at double veils.

I don't know the history of it but I remember doing it in the mid 80's. I can't remember where I learned it from though. It wasn't a local teacher. And the only workshop I can ever remember attending in those days was with Veena. But I don't remember her teaching veil, just tsfitelli.

I need to think on it.

Maybe it's an offshoot from the old "7 veils" routine, which I'd think came first? Before anyone gets started, yes I know it's a made up concept

Originally Posted by jesennia

I posted this in a facebook group as well but figured I'd post here..looking for articles, video clips, etc on the history of double veil

thank you!

I remember going to my first Rakkasah in 1986 and seeing a number of different dancers all doing double veil as part of their performances. I was captivated, because I had never seen anything like it in the previous belly dance communities I'd lived in (Ohio and Iowa). I became determined to learn it. I went off and signed up for classes with Farouche, who was the leading teacher of it in San Jose at the time.

The primary Bay Area teacher I associate with double veil is Aneena in Marin County.

Originally Posted by dunyah

Good topic, I look forward to hearing what people have to say about this. I always heard that it was a West Coast (of the U.S.) invention. My friend Deena Mauer is a master of double veils. Saqra is also great at double veils.

I've been known to dance DV a time or two I learned from Alyne Hazard who was so good a teacher that she got me doing it right there in the workshop - trust me, a significant event!

Saqra is fantastic - I was lucky enough to watch her do "double-double veil" - four veils at once. So smooth that you didn't even know about the extra veils until she split them out! Awesome. She has special veils too, made of a fabric that isn't made anymore - kind of a rubbery liquid lame' whose name escapes me. I recently acquired a skirt of the same stuff, but not enough to convert to veils, so I guess it will have to remain a skirt.

I too am looking forward to learning some history...

Shira does the teacher in San Jose have a website? Maybe he would know more..

I'm in the middle of doing an order of double veils for Aneena so I'll give her a call and see if she has any
insight into it.

Zorba I love Alyne! She really turned me on to the tissue lame' fabric in fact the first seamstress who made silk
half circles for me, the biggies, was the same lady who made her tissue lame' veils. They are my second love.

contact Connie here (not sure if she is still making them, I still have three pairs :)
RAXMA DANCEWEAR

And Saqra yes I remember fighting thru the crowd at Rak to be able to watch her double veil dance. It seriously brought
tears.

Would love to learn more about any type of theatrical dance with large pieces of fabric (Loie Fuller comes to mind)
but am hoping specifically to learn more about its inception into bellydance :)

thanks all!

Originally Posted by jesennia

Shira does the teacher in San Jose have a website? Maybe he would know more..

Sadly, Farouche (the teacher I did most of my double veil study with) died a couple of years ago.

If you're looking for "fabric dances", there are a couple of old Thomas Edison clips featuring a dancer named Annabelle. I think one is called "butterfly dance". They're both in this collection: Amazon.com: Edison - The Invention of the Movies: 1891-1918: Thomas A. Edison, Charles Musser: Movies & TV

As for single veil, here's a 1942 clip of Hekhmet Fahmy in the movie Rabab:

Samia Gamal dances with a single veil in one of the dance scenes in the 1947 movie Habib el Omr.

thank you Shira! I just posted a blog and will be editing content as it comes available,

History of double veil dance in bellydance « The Morning Bleat

Originally Posted by *Shira*

I remember going to my first Rakkasah in 1986 and seeing a number of different dancers all doing double veil as part of their performances. I was captivated, because I had never seen anything like it in the previous belly dance communities I'd lived in (Ohio and Iowa).

Habeeba has had a "Seven Veils" dance in her curriculum for a long time, and it may go all the way back to when she started her chain of Ohio studios in the 1970s. I think Schehera might have been doing double veil around the same time, too.

Originally Posted by jesennia

Zorba I love Alyne! She really turned me on to the tissue lame' fabric in fact the first seamstress who made silk half circles for me, the biggies, was the same lady who made her tissue lame' veils. They are my second love.

Yep, I bought my first pair of Lame' veils from this same lady - who was conveniently present in the WS I took from Alyne. I've since sent several others to her (Alyne) since them.

But I since have sold those Lame' veils - it seems that someone managed to get me hooked on silk for DV...

Zorba I'm a silk fanatic too :) I wrote to Connie to see if she is still making them. They are great to work with (the tissue lame' ) and I do remember that liquid lame' fabric you are talking about too (is that dating us hahahaa)

tissue lame' for those who don't have any yet :

they are SUPER easy for double veil !

so are double silk veils a 'newer' phenomenon in bellydance? again I know Loie did work with silk but
I'm trying to remember back , I think the first dancer I saw using the double veils in silk was Mahisha
Doss, my instructor in Colorado. And Joynan. But Mahisha had smaller ones made of a heavier silk.
I turned her on to the large ones later on.

Petite Jamila helped get double veils out there in the Bellydance Superstars show..I dyed both pairs in this video for her,
she specifically asked for a white edge on each curve (I think it helps her visually)

Zorba I found a video of Alyne, I learned so much from her!



Aneena



Joynan, looks like one silk and one liquid lame'

I second Dunya's mention of Deena Mauer. She is an absolutely fabulous Mistress of the Veils.

Originally Posted by jesennia

Petite Jamila helped get double veils out there in the Bellydance Superstars show..I dyed both pairs in this video for her,
she specifically asked for a white edge on each curve (I think it helps her visually)

my SilkDancer veils are dark gray with a white edge and they really do have an ethereal look about them when they in motion- I spent 30 minutes or so with them before I settled on that particular pair and I absolutely adore them.

Another thing I find interesting about Double Veil, is that males flock to it in droves. Most males of my acquaintance don't like single veil AT ALL, but many of the same LOVE double!

Go figure. I think its the "quest for beauty" thing again...

Originally Posted by zorba

Another thing I find interesting about Double Veil, is that males flock to it in droves. Most males of my acquaintance don't like single veil AT ALL, but many of the same LOVE double!

Go figure. I think its the "quest for beauty" thing again...

Unless you're talking about one of those oversized 4- or 5-yard veils, I would say double veil just looks bigger and more athletic than single veil. It's twice the amount of fabric, and almost twice the work to keep it moving. There may also be an element that single veil can look rather intimate if you keep wrapping and unwrapping it around the body as some dancers do. I don't think I've ever seen a dancer do that sort of peek-a-boo work with double veil--if they start wearing one or both veils, they take them off and keep them off for the rest of the number.

Originally Posted by zorba

But I since have sold those Lame' veils - it seems that someone managed to get me hooked on silk for DV...

Ah, Zorba, I bought a pair of lovely tissue lame' veils from you back in, er, twothousandhumbadehum. Alas, I never graduated to the silk variety. Perhaps someday.

Originally Posted by Taj

Ah, Zorba, I bought a pair of lovely tissue lame' veils from you back in, er, twothousandhumbadehum. Alas, I never graduated to the silk variety. Perhaps someday.

Those would be the ones - "Tweedledee & Tweedledum". How are they doing these days?

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

There may also be an element that single veil can look rather intimate if you keep wrapping and unwrapping it around the body as some dancers do...

Quite possibly. I remember Kamaal saying that he didn't do single veil because it wasn't "particularly masculine" - whatever that means.

Me? I haven't found a veil yet that I didn't like - although I like some more than others!

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

Unless you're talking about one of those oversized 4- or 5-yard veils, I would say double veil just looks bigger and more athletic than single veil. It's twice the amount of fabric, and almost twice the work to keep it moving. There may also be an element that single veil can look rather intimate if you keep wrapping and unwrapping it around the body as some dancers do. I don't think I've ever seen a dancer do that sort of peek-a-boo work with double veil--if they start wearing one or both veils, they take them off and keep them off for the rest of the number.

I hadn't considered it- I tend to like watching double veil more- I guess it's a bit more dynamic- but as I sit here at work not doing anything and ponder this- yes the veil seems to be a dance partner... so it has a much more intimate feel- even as a dancer who doesn't do a lot of wrapping/unwrapping- it's a personable close thing- moving in and around. And you do so with double veil- but it does have more of a dance partner feel.

Interesting. hmmm- shall think on this.

Originally Posted by Basha

I hadn't considered it- I tend to like watching double veil more- I guess it's a bit more dynamic- but as I sit here at work not doing anything and ponder this- yes the veil seems to be a dance partner... so it has a much more intimate feel- even as a dancer who doesn't do a lot of wrapping/unwrapping- it's a personable close thing- moving in and around. And you do so with double veil- but it does have more of a dance partner feel.

Interesting. hmmm- shall think on this.

beautiful description, about it being a dance partner, I had the great opp to study with Eva Cernik
she was a master with veil

There's a beautiful book on Loie Fuller, called "Traces of Light: Absences and Presence in the Work of Loie Fuller". Although it doesn't speak of the history of veil dancing in bellydance directly,some look at Loie Fuller's early 20th century use of similar fabric and accessories in her dancing might provide a contextual history.