Thread: Aligning Costumes with Dance Style/Music

For years I performed with a troupe that was often clad in tribal costuming, but we never once performed real tribal dance. (There was one choreography that we performed a few times that had tribal style vocabulary, but it was choreographed and the moves weren’t executed as regular tribal.) I always felt kind of goofy about it, but I didn’t say anything because I liked performing with the troupe overall and I know it can be a nightmare to costume a group.

The first time I felt awkward about it was at my first performance with the troupe when another dancer saw us in costume and said, “Oh, I didn’t know you did tribal.” We didn’t, but costumes said we did. This didn’t seem to be a problem at Renaissance fairs, but in regular showcases it felt strange – especially when improvised tribal and certified ATS troupes performed.

What does everyone else think? How vital is it to match costuming to dance style? What tips and guidelines do you have for matching costumes with music?

I don't like to be a total stickler, or require troupe members or students to buy a whole new costume every time they learn a new dance style. I totally understand if a troupe does a specialty dance (like assaya or haggala or melaya) and has to make some compromises in authenticity to use their existing costume pieces, for instance.

But if your regular troupe costume doesn't reflect the style your troupe usually performs... yeah, that would bother me as a troupe member. A lot.

As an audience member, I am not judgmental of student groups, as long as they don't perform for the GP. It's OK with me if women who aren't deeply interested in a dance education want to get together for friendship and exercise, put on something sparkly & jingly and dance at an occasional hafla without having a deep understanding of what they're doing. That's what haflas are for, in my mind. Freedom & fun & a safe place for women to have fun together. (But I would wonder privately about the education level of their teacher.)

I hold troupes that dance for the GP at festivals, fairs, restaurants, etc. to a professional standard (as does the audience at those events). I expect a troupe to have a pretty solid education and respect for this art form before they step in front of the public as its representatives, and a complete costume mismatch would be a giant red flag for me. It would cause me look very closely at their music and movement choices for more clues as to how educated the group was overall.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I don't like to be a total stickler, or require troupe members or students to buy a whole new costume every time they learn a new dance style. I totally understand if a troupe does a specialty dance (like assaya or haggala or melaya) and has to make some compromises in authenticity to use their existing costume pieces, for instance.

But if your regular troupe costume doesn't reflect the style your troupe usually performs... yeah, that would bother me as a troupe member. A lot.

As an audience member, I am not judgmental of student groups, as long as they don't perform for the GP. It's OK with me if women who aren't deeply interested in a dance education want to get together for friendship and exercise, put on something sparkly & jingly and dance at an occasional hafla without having a deep understanding of what they're doing. That's what haflas are for, in my mind. Freedom & fun & a safe place for women to have fun together. (But I would wonder privately about the education level of their teacher.)

I hold troupes that dance for the GP at festivals, fairs, restaurants, etc. to a professional standard (as does the audience at those events). I expect a troupe to have a pretty solid education and respect for this art form before they step in front of the public as its representatives, and a complete costume mismatch would be a giant red flag for me. It would cause me look very closely at their music and movement choices for more clues as to how educated the group was overall.

I couldn't say it better. Totaly agree

A lot depends on what you mean by "tribal style". If you're talking about cholis, coin bra/belt sets, cowrie shells, multi-tiered skirts, flared pants, etc. tribal isn't the only style that can use them. It wasn't even the FIRST dance style to use them.

Can you clarify, please?

Coin bra/belt sets, for example, are perfectly appropriate for Egyptian style, and have been worn by the likes of Samia Gamal and Tahia Carioca. Look for lebdancer's video clips on youtube.

Long before anyone had ever heard of FatChance, American Oriental dancers were wearing coins, cholis, vests, multi-tiered skirts, etc. when doing our restaurant shows. Those of us who did 2 sets would often wear sparkly beads & sequins for one set, and the "earthy aesthetic" for the other to provide some contrast. We might use sparklies in restaurants but "earthy" for outdoor stuff such as county fairs. The look we recognize today as tribal borrowed those elements from us American Oriental dancers.

Unless your troupe combined turbans + choli + coin bra + tassel belt + multi-tiered skirt + huge harem pants all together in a single look, or unless you decided to go for garters and fishnet gloves, I wouldn't personally perceive it as tribal.

When I started taking classes in the late 1990s, it wasn't terribly unusual for troupes who weren't ATS to borrow the ATS look with the turbans, big skirts, and tassel belts, just because they thought it looked excitingly different. There were even dancers promoting the misconception that this style of costuming was more authentic than sequins and glass beads. (Cotton! Wool! Dowry jewelry! Never mind that it was authentic in pieces across multiple continents.) Maybe you lived in an area where there wasn't much of an ethnic population, and you didn't know anybody who was actually following FCBD, so nobody questioned what you were doing. These costumes didn't exactly not go with that older multiculti mashup style of dancing, especially if you were working RenFaires that weren't sticklers for historical accuracy (they are rather "National-Geographic-y" looking if you don't know better...), and it was easier to make them than the elaborate sequined ones. People justified it because it seemed like something Bal Anat might have done. Then along came the WWW and being able to say, "Pfft, it's not like anyone will ever know the difference..." became a very poor way to approach a performance. Suddenly lots of dancers had access to better information, and you couldn't guarantee your efforts might not end up on YouTube for the world to pick at. How can I put this? The other day I saw someone with a mullet at the store. That used to sound like a cool idea once, too. Lots of people never leave the style rut they fell into when they were younger.

Originally Posted by Karnak

How vital is it to match costuming to dance style?

One should make a reasonable effort. If you're doing a set that references obviously different cultural traditions, I wouldn't automatically expect a different costume change for each song, but if that's not the case or if time permits costume changes, then try to wear things that match the style/time frame of the music at least halfway decently. Some mismatches are more egregious than others. It would be weird to do Persian classical dance in a melaya leff dress, but we're not rounding up every dancer using Egyptian music and wearing a Bella.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Can you clarify, please? ... Unless your troupe combined turbans + choli + coin bra + tassel belt + multi-tiered skirt + huge harem pants all together in a single look, or unless you decided to go for garters and fishnet gloves, I wouldn't personally perceive it as tribal.

The costume requirements included: choli, coin/tassel top, tassel belt, 5 tiered 25-yard skirts, and pantaloons. All were missing were the turbans, and the instructor specified that these were “tribal” costumes.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I hold troupes that dance for the GP at festivals, fairs, restaurants, etc. to a professional standard (as does the audience at those events).

I don't know how much the GP would really care about costuming style, as long as the costume choice was recognizable as 'special' or 'other'. I think most GP care that the group moves and looks cohesive or somewhat cohesive, but really when is the GP going to be that discerning over costuming choices? Of course, in my neck of the woods, I'm rather happy when a GP comes up and asks questions about why we (or the other troupe) dress differently -- because it at least shows involvement and awareness

As shown though, yes, the dancers in the audience are going to be left wondering...

Originally Posted by Karnak

The costume requirements included: choli, coin/tassel top, tassel belt, 5 tiered 25-yard skirts, and pantaloons. All were missing were the turbans, and the instructor specified that these were “tribal” costumes.

Honestly, if I saw a belly dance student troupe doing "generic student troupe choreography" in this sort of costume, I really wouldn't be judgmentally harrumphing over "wrong costume for the dance style". Student troupes usually pick one costume and wear it for everything they do, because students generally don't want to spend the money on multiple stuff.

But then, I remember the pre-FatChance days in the 1980's when the Rakkasah stage would be filled with variations on this theme. Where do you think the tribal dancers got it? Carolena didn't make it up out of nothing, you know.

Originally Posted by Kalirah

I don't know how much the GP would really care about costuming style, as long as the costume choice was recognizable as 'special' or 'other'. I think most GP care that the group moves and looks cohesive or somewhat cohesive, but really when is the GP going to be that discerning over costuming choices? Of course, in my neck of the woods, I'm rather happy when a GP comes up and asks questions about why we (or the other troupe) dress differently -- because it at least shows involvement and awareness

As shown though, yes, the dancers in the audience are going to be left wondering...

Sorry if that was confusing... I didn't mean that I thought the GP was discerning or knowledgeable about costumes/dance styles. Only that I expect that from the troupes who perform at GP events (vs a troupe who chooses not to learn about those things)

This is some good information. Thanks everyone.

I hope to try to perform more as a soloist in local showcases, and I want to make sure that my costumes match my performance. Most of these audiences are made up of other dancers, so I want to do well!

Does anyone have any tips on what to do or what to avoid?

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I don't like to be a total stickler, or require troupe members or students to buy a whole new costume every time they learn a new dance style. I totally understand if a troupe does a specialty dance (like assaya or haggala or melaya) and has to make some compromises in authenticity to use their existing costume pieces, for instance.

But if your regular troupe costume doesn't reflect the style your troupe usually performs... yeah, that would bother me as a troupe member. A lot.

As an audience member, I am not judgmental of student groups, as long as they don't perform for the GP. It's OK with me if women who aren't deeply interested in a dance education want to get together for friendship and exercise, put on something sparkly & jingly and dance at an occasional hafla without having a deep understanding of what they're doing. That's what haflas are for, in my mind. Freedom & fun & a safe place for women to have fun together. (But I would wonder privately about the education level of their teacher.)

I hold troupes that dance for the GP at festivals, fairs, restaurants, etc. to a professional standard (as does the audience at those events). I expect a troupe to have a pretty solid education and respect for this art form before they step in front of the public as its representatives, and a complete costume mismatch would be a giant red flag for me. It would cause me look very closely at their music and movement choices for more clues as to how educated the group was overall.

I'm not sure about other areas, but the GP attends our haflas, which very often have a performance portion with professionals and students. Everyone wears what I'd call their "Sunday best"... The group costuming ranges from L Rose sets to black pants and a hip scarf.

I will say that around here our students and their teachers take performing very seriously and do a fair amount of bringing the joy and knowledge about the dance to the GP.... even if it's at a hafla...

No offense meant, I'm curious about other areas....

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

One should make a reasonable effort. If you're doing a set that references obviously different cultural traditions, I wouldn't automatically expect a different costume change for each song, but if that's not the case or if time permits costume changes, then try to wear things that match the style/time frame of the music at least halfway decently. Some mismatches are more egregious than others. It would be weird to do Persian classical dance in a melaya leff dress, but we're not rounding up every dancer using Egyptian music and wearing a Bella.

This makes sense!! and we'd be rounding up a lot of Bella lovers. HEHE!!

Originally Posted by BernieV

I'm not sure about other areas, but the GP attends our haflas, which very often have a performance portion with professionals and students. Everyone wears what I'd call their "Sunday best"... The group costuming ranges from L Rose sets to black pants and a hip scarf.

I will say that around here our students and their teachers take performing very seriously and do a fair amount of bringing the joy and knowledge about the dance to the GP.... even if it's at a hafla...

No offense meant, I'm curious about other areas....

The only GP we get at our haflas are friends and families of the performers, and I think they're usually told that they'll be seeing mostly student performances so they're prepared to be accepting of all levels, all ages, all body shapes, etc.

We definitely take it seriously, and bring out our Sunday best, too, which may range from pants and a hip scarf to Bellas, depending on the students' level of involvement and their budgets (Dahlal is local to us, so I think our students often feel compelled to spend more on costuming than they would if they lived somewhere else).

But each performer & group is only performing their personal best, and all levels are welcome. So we get some students/hobbyists who are at LEAST as informed & educated on the dance as a professional, for sure... some of our best local performers don't dance professionally for various reasons.

But our haflas welcome ALL levels of dancer, including beginners and the most casual sort of hobbyist. There are definitely women who came to class primarily for exercise and stay for bonding. They're dancing their personal best for the show, but they don't know or care about the differences between Egyptian, Turkish, ATS or Tribal Fusion. They dance with lots of love and enthusiasm, though, and our haflas welcome them.


ETA: I see less of this locally in recent years, and it makes me kind of sad. These days we have more stage shows than haflas, and there really isn't a low-pressure outlet for the casual student to just twirl about in a glitterdot skirt or whatever without the audience getting all judgmental.

I know it's supposed to be a good thing to raise the quality of dance overall, and I do feel that way when it comes to dancers presenting our art form to the public. But I *really* miss the elements of sisterly friendship, creativity and play that used to exist more at the hafla level when people made their costumes and were encouraged to perform just for fun, even if they weren't naturally very skilled.

Originally Posted by Kalirah

I don't know how much the GP would really care about costuming style, as long as the costume choice was recognizable as 'special' or 'other'. I think most GP care that the group moves and looks cohesive or somewhat cohesive, but really when is the GP going to be that discerning over costuming choices? Of course, in my neck of the woods, I'm rather happy when a GP comes up and asks questions about why we (or the other troupe) dress differently -- because it at least shows involvement and awareness

As shown though, yes, the dancers in the audience are going to be left wondering...

To me it's part of getting it right. Sure, maybe noone in my audience knows why I'm wearing a galabeya or a two piece, but I know and as far as possible I'll wear the appropriate thing. Maybe none of them understand Arabic either but I'm still going to research my song choice and make sure I'm not dancing to something inappropriate. It's like cleaning underneath the chair that almost never gets moved - maybe I'm the only one who knows I've done it but if someone comes along and moves it they're not going to see the evidence of my laziness

(That is such an inappropriate metaphor for me to use! I am a terrible housewife)

To the OP: if you can, you should.

Some mismatches are more egregious than others. It would be weird to do Persian classical dance in a melaya leff dress, but we're not rounding up every dancer using Egyptian music and wearing a Bella.

This "oh noes she is wearing a Turkish costume to perform to Egyptian music" thing is something I simply do not understand and have never understood. Has the concept of globalisation passed the ethnic police by? A Bella is a costume expressly designed for oriental dance. It is no more or less a suitable costume for any oriental dance than an Eman or an Eshta or, for that matter, something you made yourself.

Right now I am wearing pants made in China and a dress and cardigan made in NZ, almost certainly from imported materials. The fabrics and thread will have been made in all manner of places (probably China!) The wool in my cardigan was probably grown here. It was probably turned into cloth in Italy. Or China.

In my bag is a hip scarf from Egypt, bought in Australia, and two hipscarves from China, bought online and in Toronto. Most people's khaleegy thobes were made in India.

It's one thing to do a dance to a big orchestrated Golden Age number wearing a slimline severe modern lycra costume, when really your overall feel and movement choice would be better suited to a romantic full-skirted costume. That to me is aligning yoru costume with your dance. But saying "oh no I only have this Bella but I want to dance to Abdel Halim Hafez whatever shall I do" seems kind of silly.

The two "work horses"in my costume closet apart from "belly dance costumes"have been a thobe(glittery cab dress)and a galabeya(since I´ve been doing "Cairo"style mileya rather than alexandrian,used galabeya for that)

There´s a dance group here that performs belly dance in what I see as tribal dance costumes(cotton skirts,kuchi jewellery,cholis,headdresses etc)That doesn´t make their dance bad(they´re a good and well rehearsed troupe)however audience and other dancers have often been confused and asked them, i.e. other dancers ask about the style+"ethnic"audience can´t recognize their folk dress.

I try the best I can to match my costume to my dance myself...but that doesn´t mean I would start to throw tomatos or something on a dancer doing shaabi in a "chiffony"raks sharki two piece

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

One should make a reasonable effort. If you're doing a set that references obviously different cultural traditions, I wouldn't automatically expect a different costume change for each song, but if that's not the case or if time permits costume changes, then try to wear things that match the style/time frame of the music at least halfway decently. Some mismatches are more egregious than others. It would be weird to do Persian classical dance in a melaya leff dress, but we're not rounding up every dancer using Egyptian music and wearing a Bella.

Agree fully.

And yes:a raks sharki costume=raks sharki costume,no matter where it was made.

I agree with much of what has been posted here. I will say that the tribal style tassel belts don't really go with most of the other dance styles, so you might ditch that. It really does scream tribal. Tassels show up in Tunisian and Ghawazi costumes but they are different than ATS-style tassel belts.

But, the truly difficult question that must be answered before passing judgement on any particular costuming choice is: what is your dance style? And, do your musical choices reflect your dance style? Once you know this, the costuming choices (and bending strict costuming rules) become much easier.

If you don't feel confident about your dance style (which is normal during the beginning and intermediate phases of learning the dance), watch lots and lots of dancing. Watch the native Egyptian, Lebanese, and Turkish dancers as well as American and other non-native dancers. Decide what really resonates with you, and then study videography of that style even more. Seek out teachers of that style.

You never know who is in the audience - you may think the GP doesn't know a thing about the dance, the costuming or the music but if you are performing at fairs or other events (especially those billed as cultural) then you owe it to the dance to be costumed appropriately.

I think the GP assumes that if a performer is appearing in public, they are in appropriate garb, whether a ballerina, flamenco dancer, Irish step dancer, bellydancer. They assume we know what we are doing, otherwise why would we be on stage in public? So we should hold up our end of the bargain even if the GP has no idea what is appropriate. It is our job to represent the dance well.

I think if other people see your costumes and say "Oh, you do ________ style?" then it's safe to assume your costuming is strongly associated with a particular dance style.

On the other topic of advice for how to align costumes with dance... I think most troupes who do Middle Eastern bellydances (even if they're a mashup of American Cabaret, Egyptian, Turkish and novelty styles, as is common among student troupes) you have a wide range of costuming choices available that aren't strongly associated with any particular style.

I like the versatility of separates, and my troupes have added a new costume piece every 2-3 years so we now have lots of flexibility without a major financial hit all at once.

My student troupe started out with bra/belt sets. Each troupie gets to choose her own, we have a wide variety of styles. A troupe that wants a more covered look could start with crop tops or tie tops & hip scarves instead.

First we all bought L. Rose mermaid skirts in bright colors, and matching gauntlets. Some chose to also wear a U-top.

Later, we all bought simple galabeyas for folkloric dances and times when we wanted a more covered look.

Then we added circle skirts, again in different bright colors.

The pro troupe has also added endless wave harems.

The pro troupe has matching coin bra/belt sets. They're not the earthy Tribal style, they're more the Golden Era style Shira mentioned above, shiny gold and silver coins on a traditional bra/belt base. This look, IME, says 'bellydancer' to the American public more than any other. Honestly, while I like the slick professional look we get with the matched sets, I think as an audience member I prefer the variety of having different costumes to look at.

My senior student troupe, The Silver Sirens, has underbust trumpet beledi dresses from L. Rose which they wear with bra/belt sets (one prefers a crop top). When the troupes dance together, these blend really nicely with the trumpets.

I think a troupe that wanted an earthier look that didn't imply full-tribal could get that look pretty easily as well. Matching hip scarves, cholis and tiered skirts, for instance, wouldn't look especially 'tribal' to me, and over time you could add different skirts, layer fringy scarves under the belt/hip scarf, etc. to get more looks.

Great topic. Lots of good information and advice here. I just wanted to add that for me as an experienced performer, aligning the costume to the music/dance style is a big part of the fun. We are lucky to have so much personal choice in our presentations as raks sharqi/belly dance soloists. I'm not obsessive about it, but it is an enjoyable process for me. (Okay, I AM obsessed with costumes and also have a limited budget, but hey, that makes me get creative.)

Sometimes I start with a piece of music that I love and match a costume to that. Sometimes I start with a costume I love and find music that suits it. Sometimes I am doing a folkloric piece that calls for a very specific costume, like the Ouled Nail piece or the Egyptian style cane dance I have done recently. No matter which way, it's so much fun! Aren't we lucky to be belly dancers?

Of course there is much less choice with a student group or a troupe, it can get pretty difficult with different dancers' ideas about what is flattering, what is appropriate, what colors look good on them, etc. etc.

I think the costuming is central to the performance, I wouldn't dance Ana Ti Intazarek wearing a 25 yard skirt, turban and choli, for example. Nothing wrong with those, but they don't match the music. I remember one performance, I intended a very classic performance to Nebtidi, but then I had my adventure with tanning lotion, and I couldn't wear the skirt that I was going to with a very classic blue bedla (purchased on bhuz from superbunny YEARS ago).

I was determined to do the song, I had studied the variations, and learned the ins and outs, studied the translations and really wanted to perform to it, so I decided on another costume that would keep my sadly orange striped legs fully covered.

This one (gothic lace eman zaki, one of a kind) which completely changed the character of the performance for me.

Instead of the performance I intended, this was described as Urban Edgy.

For me, costuming completely dictates the mood, character and feel of a performance. It takes the dance from everyday around the kitchen table to an actual presentation. While one can do a WONDERFUL performance to pretty much anything in stretchy pants and a sports bra, having those pieces put together (IMO) pushes it over into performance art.

This is a lot of good information!

Perhaps I should have asked, “When is appropriate to wear tribal costuming outside of tribal/ATS performances?” It seems to me that it’s okay for Renaissance festivals and student performances, or times when costume changes can’t happen, right? An earthy-aesthetic costuming is okay for many occasions when the beads and sparkles are appropriate, right?

Are there any major costuming mix-ups that I need to keep an eye out for?

Originally Posted by Karnak

This is a lot of good information!

Perhaps I should have asked, “When is appropriate to wear tribal costuming outside of tribal/ATS performances?” It seems to me that it’s okay for Renaissance festivals and student performances, or times when costume changes can’t happen, right? An earthy-aesthetic costuming is okay for many occasions when the beads and sparkles are appropriate, right?

Are there any major costuming mix-ups that I need to keep an eye out for?

OK I inadvertently hit the wrong button and now my response to this is a "blog post". Anybody know how to delete? It's really not something I consider important enough to be seen blogging about?

What I said was, I don't think people should wear ATS costuming unless they're doing ATS. But natural textiles and less shiny stuff is great for outdoor events.

I don't think earthy costuming necessarily = ATS.

For instance, here's a whole page of costumes from Moondance Bellydance that aren't beady or sequinny, but don't say ATS to me:
Moondance, Bellydance

Nourhan Sharif also has lots of examples, and Dahlal sells tie tops, cholis, full skirts, etc that aren't tribal.

one example


Here's a very pretty costume for ren faires that doesn't look at ALL tribal to me:



Tribal style costuming is a really specific look, usually involving a coin or shell bra over a choli, full skirt, tassel belt, kuchi-look jewelry, a layering of world textiles, and often a turban and facial designs.

I don't think wearing a choli, full skirt and hip scarf looks tribal. It just looks like simple costuming to me.

Originally Posted by Karnak

For years I performed with a troupe that was often clad in tribal costuming, but we never once performed real tribal dance. (There was one choreography that we performed a few times that had tribal style vocabulary, but it was choreographed and the moves weren’t executed as regular tribal.) I always felt kind of goofy about it, but I didn’t say anything because I liked performing with the troupe overall and I know it can be a nightmare to costume a group.

Sorry, Karnak, for venturing off-topic on your thread, but your post inspired a train of thought in me.

In the early days of Tribal Fest, a lot of deeply-ATS dancers were very, very judgmental about cab-uh-RAY dancers who dared to wear ATS-like garb but do regular cab-uh-RAY belly dance. They were outraged that these cab-uh-RAY dancers wanted to invade their turf and exploit their costume styles, maybe borrow some of their step combinations - but all without the tribalized variation of technique, the tribal strong-woman attitude, etc.

And yet, isn't that what today's tribal fusion dancers are doing with "belly dance"? They borrow the costuming concept of bare midriff with bra/belt, they borrow parts of the movement vocabulary (mixing in elements from other non-Middle-Eastern cultures), they borrow the props, and they express dark emotions you wouldn't see in traditional belly dance.

So, if it's not okay for someone to do non-tribal belly dance in an ATS-inspired costume, why is it okay to do popping and locking or poi spinning in a midriff-baring bra/hipscarf set while still calling it belly dance?

Again, Karnak, sorry for digressing in your thread, but it seems like your question logically leads to mine.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Sorry, Karnak, for venturing off-topic on your thread, but your post inspired a train of thought in me.

In the early days of Tribal Fest, a lot of deeply-ATS dancers were very, very judgmental about cab-uh-RAY dancers who dared to wear ATS-like garb but do regular cab-uh-RAY belly dance. They were outraged that these cab-uh-RAY dancers wanted to invade their turf and exploit their costume styles, maybe borrow some of their step combinations - but all without the tribalized variation of technique, the tribal strong-woman attitude, etc.

And yet, isn't that what today's tribal fusion dancers are doing with "belly dance"? They borrow the costuming concept of bare midriff with bra/belt, they borrow parts of the movement vocabulary (mixing in elements from other non-Middle-Eastern cultures), they borrow the props, and they express dark emotions you wouldn't see in traditional belly dance.

So, if it's not okay for someone to do non-tribal belly dance in an ATS-inspired costume, why is it okay to do popping and locking or poi spinning in a midriff-baring bra/hipscarf set while still calling it belly dance?

Again, Karnak, sorry for digressing in your thread, but it seems like your question logically leads to mine.

Don’t be sorry! This is leading to an interesting conversation. There is a lot popping up that I didn’t know about previously.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Sorry, Karnak, for venturing off-topic on your thread, but your post inspired a train of thought in me.

In the early days of Tribal Fest, a lot of deeply-ATS dancers were very, very judgmental about cab-uh-RAY dancers who dared to wear ATS-like garb but do regular cab-uh-RAY belly dance. They were outraged that these cab-uh-RAY dancers wanted to invade their turf and exploit their costume styles, maybe borrow some of their step combinations - but all without the tribalized variation of technique, the tribal strong-woman attitude, etc.

And yet, isn't that what today's tribal fusion dancers are doing with "belly dance"? They borrow the costuming concept of bare midriff with bra/belt, they borrow parts of the movement vocabulary (mixing in elements from other non-Middle-Eastern cultures), they borrow the props, and they express dark emotions you wouldn't see in traditional belly dance.

So, if it's not okay for someone to do non-tribal belly dance in an ATS-inspired costume, why is it okay to do popping and locking or poi spinning in a midriff-baring bra/hipscarf set while still calling it belly dance?

Again, Karnak, sorry for digressing in your thread, but it seems like your question logically leads to mine.

Cake and eat it too.

It annoys me sometimes that certain older costuming styles are appropriated by TF dancers and then become identified as TF (I agonised over wearing assuit.... not fair!) but the fact of the matter is, the whole of the world of bellydance is mixing and matching and that's a normal progression and is OK. I do not like to see people in ATS costuming doing non-ATS (though hey, maybe they are doing Gypsy Caravan format in such costuming... I guess I should say "doing non-ITS") and I do not like to see people in galabeyas doing wings either. I don't like obvious mismatch. I am yet to see a TF dancer wearing an honest to goodness oldschool or modern raqs sharqi costume and doing plain TF in it, and I would roll my eyes sarcastically if I saw it. BUT, they tend not to. Because it doesn't quite work.

I also think there's a case for saying, just because They do it doesn't mean We have to do it too. Most of the practicewear out there to buy these days has a "TF" look and it is worn in all kinds of bellydance workshops and classes. I think it would be tacky for me to put on a full ATS type costume to do oriental dance in just to poke my tongue out at tribal dancers who decide they want some shine and sex in their dance after all. Besides, it would look stupid. I'm not going to apologise for wearing pants or black or some kind of headgear, but I would not perform in a bustle skirt and Fluvogs either. But it's fair enough that we get ideas from each other; if someone doing tribal fusion has made a really appealing shrug that I know will work with my costuming, for instance, I see nothing wrong with making my own version.