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[sorcerer541]

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[Littawyn]

I love them.

[gothique]

They inspired me to get back into dancing again!
Love them!

[steffib]

There have been quite a few discussions on the topic in the past, a search in the archives will most likely retrieve pages over pages of arguments from very insightful to very heated.

Personally, I think it's a good show, but by the end of the day, it's just not what really moves me.

[Adishakti]

They're a group of talented ladies, but I get frustrated that more talented artists get left in the mass marketing dust. Newer dancers seem to think the BDSS are the epitome of MED.

Master Instructors who have made their livelihood from dance are suffering. You see it in the workshops... BDSS workshops are stuffed to the gills when too many others suffer from low attendance.

Even still, they're not as bad as some dancers make them out to be - while the BDSS haven't stayed true to the roots of BDSS, they've otherwise remained respectful of the dance.

On the other hand - there is some serious talent out there being undervalued...

[Linnyg]

I do love them. There shows can be a little over the top Vegas style but the quality of the dancing is great. I prefer to deal with them one-on-one so to speak with their individual DVD's. I decided that I wanted to be Sonia the first time I saw her dance.

[gretchendances]

Love, Hate, Love, Hate, Love, Hate. It goes on and on.

[Aisha_Raksii]

Perfect!!!

[ssipes]

What is the consensus on the Belly Dance Superstars Troupe?

Consensus?? Us??? ..l;, ..l;, ..l;, ..l;,

[ssipes]

But I am curious, sorcerer541, why you seem to like clips of dancers that have been overdubbed with other music. I seem to recall that the last clip you posted about was also overdubbed.

This dance form is all about interpreting the music. When one takes away the music chosen by the dancer and danced to by the dancer, the soul of the dance is really gutted.

If I were one to overanalyze, I'd guess that the power that a dancer shows during her dancing doesn't sit well with the men who make and upload these overdubbed youtube clips, and taking away the music and overdubbing with something of their choice is a way of stripping away the dancers' power.

But really, I'm not one to overanalyze, so I just think they are annoying youtube clips.

[Elianae]

I LOVE them, though I understand why some people don't. But I think they're all gorgeous.

[Freddie]

I'm a big fan of showgirl style dancing anyway - lots of pizazz etc. So it's my cup of tea. Jillina moved me to tears with a drum solo at Fantasia a few years ago. And she was a great teacher too.

I think that the exposure they are getting is good for us all. It could have been so different had it been presented in a different way, with diferent dancers, from both the negative and positive points of view, but you can't please everyone and I think they do a great job. It must be gruelling. And imagine what it's like for them being together all the time?

But ... I have noticed a few people on the bhuz saying that their show is becoming a bit repetitive. And I have to agree on that. The first time I saw them was about 4 years ago in London. I saw them a year later in Preston. The first time I was really taken by the show and felt very wowed by it. Not so the second time. And I didn't like that act with the stilts very much. Or the hula stuff. But I do like the rest.

[blackcherry]

I'm a big fan of showgirl style dancing anyway - lots of pizazz etc. So it's my cup of tea. Jillina moved me to tears with a drum solo at Fantasia a few years ago. And she was a great teacher too.

I think that the exposure they are getting is good for us all. It could have been so different had it been presented in a different way, with diferent dancers, from both the negative and positive points of view, but you can't please everyone and I think they do a great job. It must be gruelling. And imagine what it's like for them being together all the time?

But ... I have noticed a few people on the bhuz saying that their show is becoming a bit repetitive. And I have to agree on that. The first time I saw them was about 4 years ago in London. I saw them a year later in Preston. The first time I was really taken by the show and felt very wowed by it. Not so the second time. And I didn't like that act with the stilts very much. Or the hula stuff. But I do like the rest.

Mmmmm. the Stilts were really odd, like circusy odd. I didn't like them. And the Hula was lame. the bes thing in their show is Petite Jamilla. She's a cool chick.

[Freddie]

Aaargh what's the name of that track in the clip - starts about 2 mins in. I love it but I can never remember who/what and as soon as soemone tells me I go "oh yeahhh of course". I'm off to a hafla tomorrow night and fancy a dance to it ....

[lizajuk]

What on earth is the point of a montage like that? Aren't we as dancers supposed to interpret the music so where's the interpretation in a collage of dancer overlaid with irrelevent music?
I quite like BDSS. I like the glitz and polish (although it wasn't as evident at Raqs B this time).
I LOVE Randa .
I love dancers whose polish is just thin enough to see their hearts .

[badriya_al_ahmar]

I love dancers whose polish is just thin enough to see their hearts .

That is beautifully put

[SatinWorship19]

Aaargh what's the name of that track in the clip - starts about 2 mins in. I love it but I can never remember who/what and as soon as soemone tells me I go "oh yeahhh of course". I'm off to a hafla tomorrow night and fancy a dance to it ....

"Ellitmane Toh" by Nawal Al-Zoghbi. First track on her self-titled album.

One of my all-time favorite pop songs to dance to!

[SatinWorship19]

I love dancers whose polish is just thin enough to see their hearts .

....but not so thin as to see their aortas and ventricles

Once you find that perfect 50/50 combo of style and soul, you've GOT it.

I, personally, adore BDSS. I don't see it as the be-all, end-all of great dancing, but I still love it for what it is: a glamorous, high-fashion, Vegas-style showcase for a dance that's always been regarded as lowbrow entertainment to be enjoyed over shawarma.

I do wish, however, that BDSS would fire Miles Copeland. He's essentially blown off the entire issue of healthcare and ensuring health-promoting working conditions for his dancers. That's an entirely different conversation, altogether.

[Midoria]

They're a group of talented ladies, but I get frustrated that more talented artists get left in the mass marketing dust. Newer dancers seem to think the BDSS are the epitome of MED.

Isn't it always like that with new people?

Case in point: I wanted to vomit a few months ago when a new musical theatre fan on a Broadway forum I read claimed that "Wicked" is "one of the best musicls ever". Now the general understanding among long-time/21+ theatre goers is that "Wicked" is not a brilliant show at all, but it is popular. And in the minds of a lot of musical newbie's popular = better.* I bet they could quickly name all of the women who were associated with "Wicked", but couldn't name any of the classic musical actresses like Chita Rivera or Faith Prince.

I've learned that most people are not going to delve deeply into the art of which they partake. I've always loved dance, so I like learning about different people who have molded and epitomized the genre. But at the same time, I've learned not to get to obsessed with "names". I don't care much for name brand clothing, so why should name brand dancers flip my wig?

*No pun intended for those who have seen the show and realize the irony of this statement.

[Carissa]

[QUOTE=SatinWorship19;195921

I do wish, however, that BDSS would fire Miles Copeland. He's essentially blown off the entire issue of healthcare and ensuring health-promoting working conditions for his dancers. That's an entirely different conversation, altogether.[/QUOTE]

I agree about firing Copeland for the above mentioned reasons. I remember when I watched the American Bellydancer movie I felt like he was running poor Jilllina into the ground. I don't really like how circusy the show has gotten and I agree it has gotten repetative in areas. I guess I have a bit of a love/hate opinion. There are certain dancers that are extremely talented and have been a good representation of the dance. That being said, I feel that alot of people whose first exposure to the dance is through the BDSS shows may be misled to think you have to be a size 2 with a rock hard body to be good at dancing. One of the most wonderful things about the dance is that it is something women of all backgrounds, shapes, and sizes can do and be accomplished at.

[steffib]

I do wish, however, that BDSS would fire Miles Copeland.

Hm, wouldn't that be like firing Bill Gates from Microsoft? I'm afraid, you'll have to wait until he retires for good.

[SatinWorship19]

Hm, wouldn't that be like firing Bill Gates from Microsoft? I'm afraid, you'll have to wait until he retires for good.

Hahaha! Yes, I realized this upon 5 seconds after clicking the "send" button....but decided not to edit my post. A girl can only hope for a vicious Marxist uprising led by Jillina that scares Miles back into producing radio-friendly punk bands, with his tail between his legs.....right?

[Desideria]

I agree about firing Copeland for the above mentioned reasons. I remember when I watched the American Bellydancer movie I felt like he was running poor Jilllina into the ground. I don't really like how circusy the show has gotten and I agree it has gotten repetative in areas. I guess I have a bit of a love/hate opinion. There are certain dancers that are extremely talented and have been a good representation of the dance. That being said, I feel that alot of people whose first exposure to the dance is through the BDSS shows may be misled to think you have to be a size 2 with a rock hard body to be good at dancing. One of the most wonderful things about the dance is that it is something women of all backgrounds, shapes, and sizes can do and be accomplished at.

I agree 100%

[sorcerer541]

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[lotus]

can we not get hostile over this?

it happens to be true that a lot of dancers pride themselves on the interpretation of music, and consider it to be the highest priority of the dance. So it's not surprising that overdubbing doesn't sit well with some dancers.

As a woman, I have to admit that yes, it IS creepy to think of some guy spending oodles of hours being like 'oohh, dance for me, my sweet' while looping the same undulation over and over to songs which do not fit. Rarely does the redubbing make a good piece of art, and a lot of times it makes me feel like the editor is mocking the dancer somehow. It would be different if the dancer went to an editor and requested a remix. Or if it was a collaborative effort between the dancer and the editor.

At best, I think overdubbing is a quasi-satisfactory way of skirting music rights issues (like if you can't get clearance for a particular song) or a way to tie together a montage. I have done this myself in the past. For the general public it's fine. But I know that any other dancer who sees it will probably think what's *she* hiding?

Sorcerer541, you are the one who started off here all humbly asking whether it was ok for you to even be here as a non-dancer; please don't start getting all hostile and mean.

There are enough guys online already pretending to be nice harmless fans who turn out to be creeps - I'm not saying you are one, but just that generally dancers are very wary of that vibe (cough cough *brian!*) The member of this board have welcomed you nicely, and there's no need to fly off the handle just because some people have different opinions than yours.

[sorcerer541]

Deleted

[blackcherry]

I remember when I watched the American Bellydancer movie I felt like he was running poor Jilllina into the ground.

Hey, I saw her at Raqs B and boy, she looked awful. No make up and hair all straggly and she looked really worn out like she was ill. She had no eyebrows and was a yellowy colour. I think they get worked really hard. Too hard.

[ozma]

You're right Lotus.

I guess this is bad time to tell you that I was the one who edited this particular montage. Sorry, it seemed harmless enough. For the record I respect the amount of skill that goes into this form of dancing although as a guy I do recognize a sensual element to it as well.

Please just keep in mind the fact that the music is an integral part of an artist's vision . Removing the chosen and performed to music and putting other music in is sort of like putting a work of 2-d art, say a DeKooning, into photoshop and changing the appearance of the media with filters. It's a nice excersize of sorts, but don't expect the artist or the artist's supporters to dig it.

I don't think you're trying to "strip women of power" but I do think it's unintentionally disrespectful to the artist's vision. It removes an entire layer of complexity of the performance, reducing the art to visuals and movement without concern for the fact that those visuals and movements are reacting to and integrating into music.

And, it am
plifies one of the major flaws of the BDSS video editing and camera work, which is that the close ups don't allow us to see all the body lines of the dancer and often we just get the faceless, legless torso...which, when the music is removed, is all the more creepy and misses the point of many of the movements.

[ssipes]

I guess this is bad time to tell you that I was the one who edited this particular montage. Sorry, it seemed harmless enough. For the record I respect the amount of skill that goes into this form of dancing although as a guy I do recognize a sensual element to it as well.

I'm sorry, sorcerer541, I had no idea that you were the creator of the montage.

Let me explain a little about why I think taking away the original music destroys the dance.

The whole purpose of this dance form is for the dancer to be an abstract physical manifestation of the music, and also to interpret the emotional aspects of the music. The dancer is doing much more than just following a beat. She is genereally switching back and forth between interpreting the melody and the percussion. She's interpreting the textural aspects of the music also -- as the music switched between the melody instruments (the ney, oud, kanoun, violin, etc.) the dancer changes her movements to reflect the different sounds these make. Perhaps flowing arm undulations with the ney, torso undulations with the violin, loose shimmies exactly matching the strumming of the oud. Different drums and drum sounds invoke shimmying different body parts: big, little, shoulders, hips, sharp, loose. The dancer has to tie movements into combinations that are not randomly or haphazardly put together but following the "phrasing" and "sentences" of the music. If the song has lyrics, the dancer will convey the mood and message: often it's happy and joyful, but sometimes it's sadness, or anger, or jealousy.

And ideally, this isn't happening in the form of a pre-scripted choreography, where every smile, shoulder accent, and head toss are written down, but rather it is happening improvisationally. Even when the dancer is very familiar with the music and has rehearsed with it many times, there is a huge amount of information and decision making happening in the brain, maybe at a mostly subconscious level. But the creation of art is happening in the moment, and the dancer makes it look effortless and polished. Like a good poem, the dancer's interpretation of the music should invoke "surprise and delight" of the audience.

So anywhy, that is a little insight into why, to me, overdubbing the music just seems, well....wrong. Sure the movements are still sensuous, but how much more sensuous are they when you have the entirety of what the dancer has created?

[mish_mish]

The montage gives it more of a "Look! Hotties dancing" quality.

There's no consensus on the BDSS because all women don't think alike.