Samara from Lebanon

[nuringa]

it was recently posted on russian forums that Samara is in jail at the moment
for trying to escape from the country with her son

i can't believe it - how can it be

Nour confirmed this info saying she heard the same from Amani.

Did anyone hear smth on the subject? i'm still hoping it's wrong info :(

[Michelle75]

She's in Lebanon and trying to escape? Is it b/c of the fighting or is she in another country?

[nuringa]

she was trying to escape with her son (her husband was against it) but got caught and now she's said to be in prison in Lebanon.

[jessedan]

Samara is Iraqi, though I can't imagine she'd want to escape to Iraq right now. Unfortunately, if she was trying to flee with her son and her husband was against it, she's essentially fighting a lost battle. I'll wager he now has custody while she sits in jail.

Regards
Priscilla

[nuringa]

custody is what? (don;t know this word)

[jessedan]

Oh, ok, custody basically means guardianship. If a parent has legal "custody" of a child, it means that the court has given that parent guardianship of that child and usually the other parent can´t take the child, or is only allowed limited time with him.

Edited to Add: In Lebanon, a husband can prevent his wife and children from leaving the country no matter what their nationality is. Child custody matters are usually decided by a religious court, so if the husband and wife have different religions, the children are usually awarded to the father depending on their age. Unfortunately it´s usually the man who wins these custody cases.

Regards
Priscilla

custody is what? (don;t know this word)

[habibiyaeini]

oh no, thats just aweful news....

[nuringa]

have 2 rare clips of Samara (haven't seen them elsewhere) here:

http://karima.ru/forums/index.php?au...req=si&img=473
http://karima.ru/forums/index.php?au...req=si&img=474

[weese17]

That's really, really sad. And also, not surprising.

Lucy

[tamrahennatx]

Samara is Iraqi, though I can't imagine she'd want to escape to Iraq right now. Unfortunately, if she was trying to flee with her son and her husband was against it, she's essentially fighting a lost battle. I'll wager he now has custody while she sits in jail.

Regards
Priscilla

I'd heard she was Iranian.

[ChristinaRizkallah]

Thanks Jessedan for the explanation of the custody proceedure in Lebanon. I have cousins who are part Egyptian/part Lebanese but never really conversed with them about this. That's interesting.

Oh, ok, custody basically means guardianship. If a parent has legal "custody" of a child, it means that the court has given that parent guardianship of that child and usually the other parent can´t take the child, or is only allowed limited time with him.

Edited to Add: In Lebanon, a husband can prevent his wife and children from leaving the country no matter what their nationality is. Child custody matters are usually decided by a religious court, so if the husband and wife have different religions, the children are usually awarded to the father depending on their age. Unfortunately it´s usually the man who wins these custody cases.

Regards
Priscilla

[ChristinaRizkallah]

I can't believe that. That's awful. I feel bad for her. So I guess she was just trying to illegally flee the country.
Do you happen to know to what country she and her son were trying to go to?

I'm surprised that there is some debate about Samara's nationality. I always thought she was Lebanese. But some bhuzers are suggesting that she is Iraqi or Persian. Interesting...

it was recently posted on russian forums that Samara is in jail at the moment
for trying to escape from the country with her son

i can't believe it - how can it be

Nour confirmed this info saying she heard the same from Amani.

Did anyone hear smth on the subject? i'm still hoping it's wrong info :(

[ChristinaRizkallah]

Also, I haven't heard much of/from her in the past several years. Can anyone confirm if she retired from dancing?

[ChristinaRizkallah]

Thanks for sharing the video clips. I had never seen them before. Do you know how old they are? I would assume they are old as I am under the impression that she retired from dancing.

have 2 rare clips of Samara (haven't seen them elsewhere) here:

http://karima.ru/forums/index.php?au...req=si&img=390
http://karima.ru/forums/index.php?au...req=si&img=391

[jessedan]

Hi Tamrahenna,
Never heard that before. I just double checked with Suha Azar though, (just in case) and she says that that Samara is Iraqi, not Iranian.

Regards
Priscilla

I'd heard she was Iranian.

[nuringa]

I can't believe that. That's awful. I feel bad for her. So I guess she was just trying to illegally flee the country.
Do you happen to know to what country she and her son were trying to go to?

I'm surprised that there is some debate about Samara's nationality. I always thought she was Lebanese. But some bhuzers are suggesting that she is Iraqi or Persian. Interesting...

i don't know the exact story - it's only rumours. But the problem is definately with Samara's husband. She seemed to hide from him with her son for some time and then got caught and sent to jail for that, for trying to keep the baby with herself.

i feel for her so much and still hope that it's wrong rumors though they seem to come from Amani.

[nuringa]

Thanks for sharing the video clips. I had never seen them before. Do you know how old they are? I would assume they are old as I am under the impression that she retired from dancing.

i have an old old VHS with those clips - bought it from indian sellers - it has also Howaida Hashim on it and some kind of lebanon competition with 1994 written on a curtain of the stage.
i enjoy this footage of Samara greatly.

[nuringa]

i've reuploaded the clips in better quality and resolution
enjoy!

http://karima.ru/forums/index.php?au...req=si&img=473
http://karima.ru/forums/index.php?au...req=si&img=474

[ChristinaRizkallah]

Yes, I have many videos of Samara, but they are all old. It leads me to believe that she no longer is dancing.

i don't know the exact story - it's only rumours. But the problem is definately with Samara's husband. She seemed to hide from him with her son for some time and then got caught and sent to jail for that, for trying to keep the baby with herself.

i feel for her so much and still hope that it's wrong rumors though they seem to come from Amani.

[ChristinaRizkallah]

Yes, its really sad. You mentioned that the problem is with her husband. Was Samara trying to escape from her husband? Maybe that is why she took her son with her. Is she and her husband still married? I wonder if they are divorced and he called the police when she tried to escape with their son???

i don't know the exact story - it's only rumours. But the problem is definately with Samara's husband. She seemed to hide from him with her son for some time and then got caught and sent to jail for that, for trying to keep the baby with herself.

i feel for her so much and still hope that it's wrong rumors though they seem to come from Amani.

[nuringa]

i don't know the details of course
but it was said that she was trying to escape from her former husband with her son.
And I remember also someone told me that she was not performing for the past 3-4 years because she was in fact hiding from her ex-husband.
Maybe what happened here is that she was discovered by him :(

a cruel world it is :( - as a mama with a small baby my heart is breaking only trying to imagine the situation like that.

[ChristinaRizkallah]

Yes, that is sad indeed. Sounds like she wanted full custody of her child and felt like the best way to have that would be to flee the country? Because if she is divorced from her husband, then she really doesn't need to escape from him, unless she is trying to gain full custody and leave the country. Anyway, perhaps it has something do to with the child laws in Lebanon. Jessedan, if you are reading this thread, perhaps you can explain some of that?

i don't know the details of course
but it was said that she was trying to escape from her former husband with her son.
And I remember also someone told me that she was not performing for the past 3-4 years because she was in fact hiding from her ex-husband.
Maybe what happened here is that she was discovered by him :(

a cruel world it is :( - as a mama with a small baby my heart is breaking only trying to imagine the situation like that.

[nuringa]

from what i've heard - in muslim countries if you get divorced the baby is staying with your husband and his family. And if for example a husband dies than the baby is taken by his relatives and doesn't stay with the widow.
i remember Nour saying in one of the interviews that the main reason why she had to take islam is because of future children - so that they won't be given to her husband's family in case smth happens to him

[lotus]

from what i've heard - in muslim countries if you get divorced the baby is staying with your husband and his family. And if for example a husband dies than the baby is taken by his relatives and doesn't stay with the widow.
i remember Nour saying in one of the interviews that the main reason why she had to take islam is because of future children - so that they won't be given to her husband's family in case smth happens to him

According to Islamic Law officially, children in a divorce are placed in custody of the mother until the age of 9 for boys and 11 for girls. At that time, they are asked which parent they want to remain living with. That's custody.

The guardianship however belongs to the father, because children of a marriage are considered to hold the lineage of the father. So the father is responsible for the financial issues relating to the child. Since the children are the father's lineage & not the mother's, that means the mother is entitled to a wage which the father must pay to her. It is determined by the the region's prevailing wages for the tasks involved in caring for a child.

Additionally in most divorces (there are a few categories) the husband is also required to pay alimony. I believe the amount is 2 years of living support, that are in accordance with the region's standard and also the woman's status (like a woman form a rich family will require more to maintain a standard of living)

That's the official religious word on it, according to my professor...of course the laws drawn up by individual governmetns will vary. Judges can be jerks. And divorces tend to bring out the nasty pettiness in all cultures.

ps - this is info we covered in my class yesterday. if anyone has questions i can pass them along to my professor. I know I'm not explaining it as clearly since I'm not an expert...

[ChristinaRizkallah]

Thanks for your explanation. Its really interesting and you explained it well. I have one question-regarding the two years-does that mean the father only has to pay alimony for the first two years after the divorce? Just wondering about that...

QUOTE=lotus;25608]According to Islamic Law officially, children in a divorce are placed in custody of the mother until the age of 9 for boys and 11 for girls. At that time, they are asked which parent they want to remain living with. That's custody.

The guardianship however belongs to the father, because children of a marriage are considered to hold the lineage of the father. So the father is responsible for the financial issues relating to the child. Since the children are the father's lineage & not the mother's, that means the mother is entitled to a wage which the father must pay to her. It is determined by the the region's prevailing wages for the tasks involved in caring for a child.

Additionally in most divorces (there are a few categories) the husband is also required to pay alimony. I believe the amount is 2 years of living support, that are in accordance with the region's standard and also the woman's status (like a woman form a rich family will require more to maintain a standard of living)

That's the official religious word on it, according to my professor...of course the laws drawn up by individual governmetns will vary. Judges can be jerks. And divorces tend to bring out the nasty pettiness in all cultures.

ps - this is info we covered in my class yesterday. if anyone has questions i can pass them along to my professor. I know I'm not explaining it as clearly since I'm not an expert...[/QUOTE]

[ChristinaRizkallah]

I know the interview with Nour that you are talking about. Its on tribe.net. She mentions that she converted to Islam in the event that her husband dies, his family won't take away her children. I think she also said that she legally changed her name. So her legal name is Nour Al Swery (not sure about the spelling)? Its not Ekaterina anymore?

Also, how many children does she have total?

from what i've heard - in muslim countries if you get divorced the baby is staying with your husband and his family. And if for example a husband dies than the baby is taken by his relatives and doesn't stay with the widow.
i remember Nour saying in one of the interviews that the main reason why she had to take islam is because of future children - so that they won't be given to her husband's family in case smth happens to him

[nuringa]

Nour's former name was not Ekaterina it was Tatyana! Tatyana Fedyaeva

Ekaterina is mine name :) by the way

yes i think her official name on documents is Nour now

Her only daughter - 2 month old Nataly is her only child by now ;)

[lotus]

does that mean the father only has to pay alimony for the first two years after the divorce? Just wondering about that...

Hi Christina,
I think the marriage contracts tend to be written like prenups. So the guy has to pay whatever he agreed to beforehand in addition to the alimony. But also IIRC there is generally a lump sum settled on the woman in addition to alimony, which is recurring payments.

The lump sum comes from the "mahr" which is dowry paid by the groom to the bride. argh, where is my notebook from class? The bride is not required to contribute the household expenses whatsoever, and the mahr is her money. If a woman contributes to household expenses whatsoever, it qualifies as charity and she accrues the same benefit spritually as if she gave to any foundation. So, theoretically, if the mahr is a good size to start with she should be ok after a divorce.

I've read in one place that if the woman really wants to get out of a marriage, but the husband has technically done nothing wirng, she can apportion part of her dowry to him in exchange for a "khul" divorce, but I don't know how kosher, urm I mean "halal" this is technically.

Besides alimony, which is damages for the marriage itslef - if there are children the man still has to pay a salary to the mother, plus household, medical and educational expenses for the children.

If a girl's family is looking out for her, I assume they would encourage the contract to also include a lot of other clauses to make the guy sorry he ever changed his mind as well.

Inwiritng the contract, one person is the holder of the 'isma (the knot). This is the more powerful position, as the holder of the knot is empowered to initiate divorce proceedings. It is usually the man, but can be the woman.

Anyway, all this stuff is what we are learning in my jurisprudence class. In real life, I'm sure people pull all kinds of tricks during a divorce, regardless. Human nature and all.

[jessedan]

I think another problem for dancers with children in the case of an eventual divorce is that if the father can prove that she is lacking in "good moral character" he can obtain custody of the child. Probably not difficult to do considering how dancers are looked upon in the middle east.
This is from a website that deal with child custody laws in Lebanon:

Among Sunni Muslims, the father has physical custody of a daughter over the age of nine and of a boy over the age of seven. For Shia Muslims the father generally has physical custody at for boys at age 2 and for girls at age 7.

If a father establishes that the mother is unfit or lacking good moral character, she will lose any right to the child. Muslim law requires a child to be raised in the Muslim faith, and if it were proven that a mother tried to raise the child as a Christian, she could be found unfit.

http://www.international-divorce.com/ca-lebanon.htm

Regards
Priscilla

[lotus]

PS - Christina, this isn't so much about marriage, but since you're Egyptian I thought you might be interested in this book I read last fall for a differenct class. It is about women in Cairo. I had always assumed you were Coptic? and this book talks about the Islamic da'wa womens' piety movement, but it's really interesting, especially in terms of how Egyptian society is changing and the personal role that religion plays in a person's life. Chapter 5 has great stuff about Egyptian social attitudes toward marriage

"Politics of Piety" - saba mahmood.
http://books.google.com/books?id=jcy...KClTU#PPA40,M1