Thread: Student rant (sorry)

I know this has been on here a couple of times, but I just need to vent! Maybe these just struck me the wrong way on the right night, but in the last two weeks I have heard:

-I can't get the moves because I don't know the song. No, you can't get the moves because you come in late, talk with your SIL, and don't listen when I give general class pointers and individual feedback.

-I can just transfer all of this to Salsa dancing, right? She was genuinely surprised when I told her that they were completely different dance forms, and this wouldn't transfer to Salsa.

-So when will I be able to dance like you? This was said at the end of her first class. When I told her that it would depend on how much she picked up easily and how much she practiced, she actually appeared crestfallen that it might take more than one six week session at a rec center. Now, I'm not the greatest/most dedicated dancer out there but give me some credit for all the years I've studied!

I dunno, maybe I've become a crotchety old beyotch, but these comments just hit me wrong. Thanks for letting me vent!

Well, about the salsa. . . There's a girl in my dance class who loves to go out salsa dancing -- and has started incorporating upper-body isolations and hip work. I'd say that if you can incorporate the movement vocabulary of one dance form into another then more power to ya. Hell, I don't know how to go out to a club and dance w/o drawing from my belly dance training.

But I feel your frustration.

Originally Posted by Andrea2

-So when will I be able to dance like you?

Well I'm always going to be 16 years ahead of you... is my standard response.

Originally Posted by Andrea2

-I can't get the moves because I don't know the song. No, you can't get the moves because you come in late, talk with your SIL, and don't listen when I give general class pointers and individual feedback.

This is just an excuse for a poor attitude and lack of practice. I have no idea what any of the songs are and I don't know the words but I can find a beat and if I am shown moves to go with it....I got it.

Originally Posted by beafarhana

Well I'm always going to be 16 years ahead of you... is my standard response.

..l;, good one!
a lot of people just seem to want instant success with every endeavor.

Originally Posted by beafarhana

Well I'm always going to be 16 years ahead of you... is my standard response.

Ha, love that I may have to use it!

Originally Posted by Linnyg

This is just an excuse for a poor attitude and lack of practice. I have no idea what any of the songs are and I don't know the words but I can find a beat and if I am shown moves to go with it....I got it.

Exactly! I just said "Oh, I know. That's why I count out the rhythm for you to get you started." Her trying to blame the music for her lack of trying is what got to me.

Bea, I did tell her that I had been dancing for 12 years but her face was blank and I could tell she didn't have any idea what I was saying. She told me she has never danced (in class or in public), but somehow she expects this to be a magical dance that will transform her.

Ban, I hear you! I don't know how to dance "civilian" any more. I get the fusion thing and borrowing from one dance form to help you learn/perform another, but I got the impression that she was just going to do bellydance to salsa music. Another student who heard her comment backed me up and said, "No, they are completely different. I merengue (sp? mmmm, lemon pie ..l;, ) and look at me!" (meaning it's obvious they aren't the same)

Originally Posted by Andrea2

-I can't get the moves because I don't know the song.

-I can just transfer all of this to Salsa dancing, right?

-So when will I be able to dance like you? This was said at the end of her first class.

"I know that ME eastern music can be hard to grasp at first, so it's important to listen carefully in class to additional cues and tips that I give. I can also give you the information on what cd to find this song on so you can listen and practice at home."

For transfering to salsa I think I'd explain that they are very different dances BUT the body awareness, exposure to choreographies, and the practice ethic you gain from one dance can help you better learn another dance.

"It depends on the student, but please keep in mind that I have been studying for XX amount of years. I'm flattered that you'd like to dance like me, but remember that if that's your goal it's going to take a while and a lot of practice and intense study."

Originally Posted by Andrea2

-So when will I be able to dance like you?

She will never dance like you. With enough practice she will learn and will be able to dance like herself. How fast she learns isolations and then layering, how fast she is able to learn to hear and feel the music, and interpret it, that depends on how much practice she gets, and a whole lot of personal/personality issues. But the aim should not be to look like you, but to look like herself.

Originally Posted by jaziri

She will never dance like you. With enough practice she will learn and will be able to dance like herself. How fast she learns isolations and then layering, how fast she is able to learn to hear and feel the music, and interpret it, that depends on how much practice she gets, and a whole lot of personal/personality issues. But the aim should not be to look like you, but to look like herself.

hear hear. I really try to stress this. Orit said to make sure to not just teach beginners isolations but to have them just dance it out at some point. So I try to get my students to do more organic movements at the end of the class and stress that they will all look different doing it and that's okay.

Originally Posted by Andrea2

Ban, I hear you! I don't know how to dance "civilian" any more. I get the fusion thing and borrowing from one dance form to help you learn/perform another, but I got the impression that she was just going to do bellydance to salsa music. Another student who heard her comment backed me up and said, "No, they are completely different. I merengue (sp? mmmm, lemon pie ..l;, ) and look at me!" (meaning it's obvious they aren't the same)

I actually did a bellydance fusion solo! I love salsa and belly dance....and I found the perfect song.....middle eastern with a salsa beat

anyhow... I just wanted to say that i have done fusion with salsa and still would never say that i can just transfer it all over to salsa. maybe she just meant she'd have more fluid wigglie hips!

When I was taking salsa lessons, the teacher actually said "did you take ballet? you look too stiff?" i'm like...what the heck! i never took ballet, but usually when someone asks you that its a compliment...but this time i was fooled :)

Originally Posted by Andrea2

-I can't get the moves because I don't know the song. No, you can't get the moves because you come in late, talk with your SIL, and don't listen when I give general class pointers and individual feedback.

***
I dunno, maybe I've become a crotchety old beyotch, but these comments just hit me wrong. Thanks for letting me vent!

i hope you set that one straight, coz that is sooooo annoying. flaming pay attention, will you! i was crotchety old beyotch student in class last night. there's one woman who is noticeable for "not getting it". i ended up near her last night, and i swear she almost never shut up, laughing and horsing around, half the time going on about how she couldn't do it, to the point that it was hard to hear what the teacher was saying. then she comes in late after the break clacking away with sagat and trailing a veil (neither of which we're working on) and totally interrupts everything.
she overheard when another student asked me how long i've been dancing and when i answered she said, "that's why you can do the moves" and crotchety old beyotch blurted out, "that and i pay attention to the teacher in class." doubt it did any good, but it felt good coz she was standing on my last nerve.

note to self: avoid being near that one in future.

Carolynn, I didn't even waste my breath. This is probably really bad of me, but I knew that I wouldn't see her after that session. This class is offered through a community college in six week sessions. I'm pretty sure she only continued to come because it was already paid for. I got a lot of eye rolling and bored expressions on her. If I thought she was a serious but misguided student I would have talked to her about it, but I was just biding my time until the end of the session.


she overheard when another student asked me how long i've been dancing and when i answered she said, "that's why you can do the moves" and crotchety old beyotch blurted out, "that and i pay attention to the teacher in class."

Felt good, didn't it? COB's unite!

Originally Posted by carolynn

i hope you set that one straight, coz that is sooooo annoying. flaming pay attention, will you! i was crotchety old beyotch student in class last night. there's one woman who is noticeable for "not getting it". i ended up near her last night, and i swear she almost never shut up, laughing and horsing around, half the time going on about how she couldn't do it, to the point that it was hard to hear what the teacher was saying. then she comes in late after the break clacking away with sagat and trailing a veil (neither of which we're working on) and totally interrupts everything.
she overheard when another student asked me how long i've been dancing and when i answered she said, "that's why you can do the moves" and crotchety old beyotch blurted out, "that and i pay attention to the teacher in class." doubt it did any good, but it felt good coz she was standing on my last nerve.

note to self: avoid being near that one in future.

I feel your pain. In every class I have taken in college, there has been at least two of these girls sitting in the back of class with no books talking to each other and texting on their phones. They get up in the middle of class and walk in and out and can't keep their mouths shut. They always look really surprised however when they get test scores back. I use to just let it go cause I figured it wasn't worth it but I started speaking up when I could no longer hear the lecture. I just turn around and let them know that no one else in class cares how drunk they were the night before and who the "did" in the bathroom. That usually shuts them up for a while...g.: ..g.:

So when will I be able to dance like you? This was said at the end of her first class.

When you practice in class and at home, when you take it seriously and not think of it as a way to turn your boyfriend on. When you take the time to HEAR the music and let it mover through your body.
Than, you will be able to dance like me.

Originally Posted by Michelle75

When you practice in class and at home, when you take it seriously and not think of it as a way to turn your boyfriend on. When you take the time to HEAR the music and let it mover through your body.
Than, you will be able to dance like me.

I used to be shy about saying it early on in my teaching days, but now I'm pretty direct (though still polite) about this sort of thing. If someone tells me they don't feel like they're happy with their progress, the first thing I ask is how much they practice outside of class. If they say they don't, I say straight out, "I know it's really hard to find the time. But I have to tell you, you're really only going to accomplish the tip of the iceberg without regular practice outside of class. I wish there was a trick to it that I could share with you, but it's like they say, You get out of it what you put into it."

I do get that a lot of my students only do this as a fun way to get out of the house, and it really does not bother me at all. But I'm pretty clear from day one that you'll only get so far if all you do is attend class one a week.

Originally Posted by jaziri

She will never dance like you. With enough practice she will learn and will be able to dance like herself. How fast she learns isolations and then layering, how fast she is able to learn to hear and feel the music, and interpret it, that depends on how much practice she gets, and a whole lot of personal/personality issues. But the aim should not be to look like you, but to look like herself.

Exactly - I think too many teachers try to make cookie cutters of themselves. They don't allow students room for individual body expression and in that way inhibit their students from individual growth as dancers as well as cause them to be too teacher-dependent. (Some teachers do this on purpose, others by accident) Our bodies are each a bit different, as long as we are doing the same general move, a bit of differentiation is okay.

Originally Posted by laura 2

I used to be shy about saying it early on in my teaching days, but now I'm pretty direct (though still polite) about this sort of thing. If someone tells me they don't feel like they're happy with their progress, the first thing I ask is how much they practice outside of class. If they say they don't, I say straight out, "I know it's really hard to find the time. But I have to tell you, you're really only going to accomplish the tip of the iceberg without regular practice outside of class. I wish there was a trick to it that I could share with you, but it's like they say, You get out of it what you put into it."

I do get that a lot of my students only do this as a fun way to get out of the house, and it really does not bother me at all. But I'm pretty clear from day one that you'll only get so far if all you do is attend class one a week.

I was just reading David Brooks' NY Times column today - it's about a book by sports psychologist H.A. Dorfman. In part of it, he writes: "It's commonly said that it takes 10,000 hours of practice to master any craft - three hours of practice every day for 10 years."

Kind of puts things into perspective. ..g.:

Makes you wonder if you could practice nine hours a day, you'd master it in three years and three months. Only problem is: if I got stuck on a deserted island and practiced that often, I probably wouldn't master belly dance because nobody would teach me.

Paying attention to your teacher is really important. Same as when someone tells me that they took classes with dancer X for a year, I rate them on a different level then someone who took classes from dance Y. Because I know what teacher X and Y teach in class and how they teach.