Thread: Bellydance certifications-opinions?

I was actually looking for something else, and ran across the bellydance certification course by Taaj. I live in a cave, so I didn't know there was such a thing! I googled and quite a few different "bellydance certification" programs came up-some looked good, some I couldn't tell...so, any opinions on these? Personal experiences? Thanks!
Nikki

Hadia has level 1,2, and 3 teacher training courses as well as a professional course that runs this July in Montreal. I adore her and her teaching style and reallly clicked with her.

I think Hadia is wonderful. I have one of her technique DVDs and I love the way she teaches, and her energy. To do a certification with her would be a great experience!

Which of the training courses have you been to Anyadance? I am suprised more people haven't replied to this thread-please feel free to PM me if this is a personal subject for some of you! Thanks,
Nikki

Personally, I love Suhaila's certification program, and am Level 2 certified in her format. I'm going to my First Level 3 weeklong workshop in August - I'm so excited!

Well, we're hosting Hadia in June in Chicago. Ill let you know how it goes then. A lot of dancers are happy we're having it because its a comprehensive all in one kind of a deal. Im happy it will fill in some holes in my education.

Here's another A++ vote for Hadia!

Some Instructors offer a certification that reminds me more of a certificate of attendance. To earn it all you have to do is attend all 2.5 days of a weekend event. I understand that Suhaila, Boz and others have a study guide that require pre-event study, focus and lots of work. Vastly different.

Originally Posted by txchic

Some Instructors offer a certification that reminds me more of a certificate of attendance. To earn it all you have to do is attend all 2.5 days of a weekend event. I understand that Suhaila, Boz and others have a study guide that require pre-event study, focus and lots of work. Vastly different.

Hadia's levels 1 & 2 are attendance certifications (20hrs each), but there is no shortage of required study and understanding. You can NOT get by daydreaming - that's for sure. Her level 3 does require a pass or fail based upon your understanding of her program.

We all have our own reasons for obtaining certification, but beyond recognition and respect, I think it's VERY important to know what the training consists of. If you are teaching, it's your moral obligation to ensure the safety of your students and be respectful of the cultural origins of our dance. Whatever certification you decide on... I'd make sure your instructor has had adequate fitness and/or health training at the very least.

Originally Posted by micamica

Which of the training courses have you been to Anyadance? I am suprised more people haven't replied to this thread-please feel free to PM me if this is a personal subject for some of you! Thanks,
Nikki

I've taken level 1 and 2 teacher training and several workshops with her.

This summer I'm going to Montreal for her technique and making the most of your music workshop and will be submitting an audition for her professional course (as soon as I finish it..hehe)

I am also planning on taken 1 and 2 AGAIN (probably in Toronto in August) before I take level 3 in Mexico in December.

Hadia has the credentials I'm looking for, the teaching style I like and relate too, and I gravitate to people who don't have a lot of "bullsh**" following them around. (This is where it gets personal ) She offers what I wanted and what I am looking for. My students commented on how much stronger my teaching technique became after I studied with her as I took her information and made it my own.

Is this something that a student generally goes to or is it just for teachers? Do you recommend some type of certification before you start teaching or is it an aide for teachers? I'm not looking to start teaching right now, just curious on opinions.

Originally Posted by nakiajizeem

Is this something that a student generally goes to or is it just for teachers? Do you recommend some type of certification before you start teaching or is it an aide for teachers?

A lot depends on which certification program you're referring to. Some are oriented toward the craft of teaching belly dance, while others are more aimed at physical fitness and technique.

I think a fitness certification from ACE or AFAA is good for teachers and students alike, because the info you have to learn to get that certification is useful for knowing how to take care of your own body regardless of whether you teach others or not. And if you do decide to start teaching, some environments (such as gyms/fitness clubs) will require you to have this certification as a pre-requisite to working for them.

Another certification I'd recommend is the CPR certification from the Red Cross. Again, this is valuable whether you're just a belly dance student or whether you aspire to teach, simply because CPR is a good life skill to have.

If you won't be teaching in an environment that requires a certification as a pre-requisite, then I would say it's optional.

More important than a certification though, I would urge a would-be teacher to study with multiple teachers, not just one, as a way of discovering the many different ways a person can structure a class, organize a curriculum, explain each move, etc. It's good for a would-be teacher to expose herself, for example, to the many different approaches that can be used to teach finger cymbals. And so on. If you study with only one person, even if it's a really good person, you'll have only that person's perspective to bring into your classes and you'll just be parroting how they did things. But if you study with a diverse collection of teachers, and see the different ways each does things, you'll have a broader range of influences to draw from when the time comes for you to try it yourself.

When I teach, I use Teacher F's ideas for teaching improvisation, Teacher K's approach to helping students learn to move and play finger cymbals at the same time, marching band techniques for teaching my students to maintain straight lines in performing choreography, Teacher L's drill methodology, etc. and then I add a dose of my own ideas to the mix.

Piper of Baltimore & Veda Sereem (southern Md last time I looked) are both doing certification courses, I think. They are both excellent teachers, so their certification courses are probably good, too.

Hadia says students (and teachers) take her course all the time.

No opinion on particular courses, just idea that any certification should be supervised and agreed upon by master teacher level person.
Nobody should teach before being personally allowed to do so by a master teacher who decides dance style and level of courses to be taught by a succesfull trainee.

.p:: I feel it is kind of unwritten rule.p:: , unfortunatelly it is omitted or even unknown by many, that is why 6 weeks wonders go pro. ..c::

It's a new fad (rash) these days, that everyone thinks they need to have a certification program. It is beginning to discredit all certifications because there are so many now, from both well knowns and not-really-all-that-well-knowns, and they have such varied content and some pass people just for showing up.

I personally think there should be practical testing and evaluation if there is to be a certificate. I am trying to think of what other professional industry hands out certificates for people just showing up...anyone have examples?

TribalDancer,
I think this
"I am trying to think of what other professional industry hands out certificates for people just showing up..."
is something that seems to be happening a lot in the Personal Trainer industry. I know someone who is looking to become a personal trainer and it seems that many of the certifications are basically just open book-do it at home-sort of things. I have heard that ACE, while really well known, is looked down on in the Personal Trainer world because of how poorly designed it is, compared to others. There is another one (can't remember the name) that is well known, and was good up until about about five years ago, when it seems they switched to a "24-Hour Fitness" mentality, which is all about keeping the clients paying as long as possible, regardless of their needs. But of course, you wouldn't really know any of this stuff unless you knew people in the industry, or found it out on different messageboards (like he did).
Nikki

Hi all! I'm a Hadia fan and completed her Level 3 teacher training last June. What drew me to the decision to take a certification course was to be a better and safe instructor to my students. I liked Hadia's credentials and long history with the dance. Her approach is straightforward and to the point. Tons of very useful information and approaches presented in the course. Every level has its practical tests. By Level III you are expected to be prepared to teach to class or individuals movements, zils, rhythms, muscles, etc. I haven't felt that much pressure since final exams in college. I still keep my teacher training binder handy for reference and insight. Not all programs are the same. I agree with several posts that you should investigate the certification program before committing your money and time. At first my students didn't care about my certification. Now when they talk about our studio, I've heard them mention it as a huge plus. So even though you may get a certification, you still have to prove its value to your students. Anther bonus is that the dedication to completing the certification greatly improved my own skills.

Thanks for all the great opinions folks, I definitely appreciate the input ! So has anyone tried anything besides Hadia's certification?
Nikki

Originally Posted by ErikaOH

Personally, I love Suhaila's certification program, and am Level 2 certified in her format. I'm going to my First Level 3 weeklong workshop in August - I'm so excited!

I went up to Suhaila's Level 2 as well and was about to take Level 3 when I became disenchanted with the whole notion of certification in Oriental Dance.

BTW, I am aware that Suhaila's methods differ vastly from Hadia's.

Which factors into my mixed feelings about certification in this dance form. Because there is no codified language (except within a specific program), each program is so different and specific to its creator. I believe that students will gravitate towards a teacher, teaching style, and content that resonates with his/her personality, views/philosphies of the dance, and personal goals, whether to teach and/or for development and fulfillment.

To me, it seems there are so many stylistic differences and bodies of cultural and musical knowledge in this dance that to encompass them all would be overwhelming, yet "certification" to me means having increasing levels of knowledge in every possible aspect of this dance. But in reality, each certification program is a subjective, selective world view, no matter how inclusive that program attempts to be. Again, students will select which "world view" they would like to learn or adopt.

In creating a certification program, there would have to be an analytical breakdown of a body of information. I think in the west we like to break things down, put them into chunks of information, learn how each part works in the whole scheme of things. I don't discount the personal drive and effort and improvement that comes as a result of dedication and study of a certification program. And I agree that there is a level of responsibility a teacher undertakes when she/he chooses to instruct others.

...Ack, I lost my train of thought...Ok, what I'm attempting to distill in my random thoughts is that certification has the potential to limit or cause conflict. Say there is a hypothetical, ambitious dancer who chooses to become certififed in both Hadia's and Suhaila's programs. That dancer may not be able to reconcile the differences b/t two. I'm going to take a stab at it and say definitively that he/she would not be able to at all. In having to "choose" she would have to limit what she learned between the 2 programs. Exclude some body of knowledge over another. This is my logic. It could very well be flawed. Why I stopped being a lawyer... ..c:: Maybe someone out there understands what I'm trying to convey... ..cr.:

I would guess that the progenitors of this and all the other dance forms did not envision certification programs as a method of transmission. They just danced and the knowledge passed by rote, by observation, by doing.

My Grandparents are Scottish Country Dancers. I can't remember all of the requirements to them being certified but they must write a history exam as well as have a practical (dance) test.

There is a week of information before the tests themselves that must also be attended.

It would be near impossible to do a history exam, since no one really agrees on much in bellydance but I do wish there were some clear standards.

I remember a young dancer who loved bellydance so much as was very excited to take Dolphina's certification workshop in Canada a few years ago because she was sure that would make her a "real bellydancer" and a "teacher."

I think the idea of certification in that light can become misleading especially to those who don't know exactly what the certification will stand for.

And I think it can also be used to mislead clients and customers later on. As a bebebellydancer I would've been very impressed to learn that my teacher was "certified" by Anyone De LaShake.

Teacher training/certification programs have been around in Switzerland for at least 10 years.

I'd say any program that promises a certificate in less than a year (one weekend per month at least) is not serious.

But I have also seen that being certified does not automatically make you a good dancer (or teacher).
You need to take additional training. I also like Shira's point about taking from different teachers to see their styles.

Our school has a program running for beginning teachers (two full weeks of training), and the participants can teach a real class while being monitored by the school's owner who gives them feedback. (There is no certification though)

MEISSOUN

Originally Posted by TribalDancer

I am trying to think of what other professional industry hands out certificates for people just showing up...anyone have examples?

Dunno if this is still the case, but when I did massage therapy in the 90s, it seemed like everybody and her sister had a new modality to hold certification workshops on. In many cases it was a matter of a weekend, and voila! You were certified in Rolfapercussive Ligament Manipulation, or some such weirdness.

Originally Posted by Azhia

To me, it seems there are so many stylistic differences and bodies of cultural and musical knowledge in this dance that to encompass them all would be overwhelming, yet "certification" to me means having increasing levels of knowledge in every possible aspect of this dance. But in reality, each certification program is a subjective, selective world view, no matter how inclusive that program attempts to be. Again, students will select which "world view" they would like to learn or adopt.

Yeah, but one would hope a student wouldn't *stop* at a particular certification.

In having to "choose" she would have to limit what she learned between the 2 programs. Exclude some body of knowledge over another.

Well . . . maybe I'm not understanding you, but isn't that the case whenever you take classes from more than one instructor? Eventually you suss out which movements/styles/world views are most compatible with your goals/abilities/world views, no?

Well, I think combining certifications makes sense inasmuch as teachers are always a combination of various approaches--they pick and choose what works for them, add personal experiences into the mix, and create their own teaching style. So I don't see how taking more than one certification can be a detriment.

Now if you want to teach a very specific style, such as you want to teach Suhaila's format JUST as she teaches it, then taking just that certification and working toward her level 5 makes sense. But if you want to certify in her style to be able to add it to your bag of experiences from which to draw from, why not take other classes and certifications? That is, if you have the money and time to do so...

It is interesting, the comments about two different teachers causing conflict. There is a saying in the Hula world "no one teacher has all the knowledge". And yet, it is basically forbidden to study from more than one Kumu (master) teacher. You definitely can't do two teachers at once, and if you switch from one to the other, you are suspected of being a "spy" for quite a while.

Why? Because everyone seems to think it will cause conflict, that students will say "but in so and so's class we do it this way". Or worse yet, that a student will take choreography and share it with another class. Sadly, a great deal of irreplaceable knowledge (especially traditional) has been taken by Kumu to the grave because of this.

This is an issue I really struggle with personally-in my mind, having two teachers is like having two parents. Yeah, mom was a great seamstress, but she can't cook much beyond oatmeal. So why can't dad teach me how to cook? I feel the goal of "growing up", as a person or in a profession, is self reliance. But to be self reliant you can't just find a single person, and mimic what they have shown you. I think instead of limiting yourself by having different teachers, it will force a person to create their own unique dance style. When you dance and teach, do you want people to say "wow, its like seeing Famous the Dancer, right here in Denver" Personally, I want them to say "wow, this is like no one I have seen before-how amazing" .

This thread has given me a lot to think about, and now I feel that I would not expect too much actual dancing technique to be taught in a teacher certification class. I can go to any experienced teacher or video for that. I would look for a focus on the anatomy of dance, ways to correct and prevent dangerous techniques, styles of teaching rythmns, student learning styles, handling classroom "issues", finance/promotional management tips, how to construct class lesson plans, and ways to prevent burnout. These would be the issues I don't seem to see presented in workshops and such.
Nikki

Sadhu sadhu sadhu, Nikki (Pali for: well said, I/we agree with you), which is exactly why I do not follow any one person's system or dance vocabulary/style.

And Taj, I am agreeing with you.

Ultimately, it is for every student to judge for him/her self what teaching style and body of knowledge they wish to pursue and to never stop until they're satisfied. Or never stop, period, and just keep learning, discerning what they want to keep in their knowledge and toss whatever doesn't suit her/him.

I have respect for those who create certification programs. To me it shows that they feel passionate enough to want to extend their knowledge beyond themselves and beyond just a teacher/student relationship. And everyone has a right to be in a position of "authority" to "bestow" (to deserving and hard-working individuals) a symbol of having attained knowledge in something.

At the end of the day, however, when my goal is to seek my essential self in an art form, certification, per se, is irrelevant.

Ansuya is doing Cabaret, Tribal Fusion, and prop certifications in the South Florida area. :)

Hi Nikki,

It's awesome that you're investigating different certification programs. There certainly are some great ones out there. And, depending upon the certification you're seeking, they can provide a more intensive level of study than simply going to a workshop or regular class. Of course, as others have pointed out, there definitely seems to be a fad of having your own personal certification (maybe just teaching workshops isn't "enough" anymore? or perhaps there are so many people teaching workshops instructors felt they had to offer "more") but there are certainly some programs that have been put together with a lot of thought as far as content and curriculum are concerned.

In my real life I'm an education coordinator and frequently design curriculum, trainings, and educational programs for a wide variety of ages. :) I'd recommend, when seeking a certificate, you consider what *you* would like to get out of it. As others have mentioned, there are those that will certify you in that particular dancer's style (Ansuya's program is an example) and programs that are more comprehensive and will truly certify you to teach (requiring that you create sample lesson plans, handouts, etc).

If you're thinking about teaching, I highly recommend a different type of coursework though. Consider checking out classes in teaching. It's odd, but a lot of dance instructors have absolutely no experience with the teaching end of it, just with the dancing. Being a great performer does not necessarily make one a skilled instructor (or vice versa!). There's a lot of technique that goes into interpreting information and presenting it in a format that others can understand. Your students have different learning styles, respond to different types of presentations, etc. And there are different ways to organize your material, lesson plans, curriculum, too. If you're not interested in a teaching certificate specifically in belly dance, community colleges and even state colleges tend to offer a lot of online and other types of classes for those seeking education degrees. You certainly wouldn't have to get a degree, but I bet you could find a nice class that will help you learn more about teaching :)

Best of luck to you!
Misha

Originally Posted by anyadance

Hadia has the credentials I'm looking for, the teaching style I like and relate too, and I gravitate to people who don't have a lot of "bullsh**" following them around. (This is where it gets personal )

Well I'm pretty sure just about anybody in this field who has been around long enough to build a certification program has some bull**** following them around, and that includes Hadia. I wouldn't necessarily let that be a deal-breaker.