Thread: "Will you make us a video?"

What do you when your students keep asking for a video so they can practice at home?

My students specifically want our choreographies on video. I've allowed one student to come in & videotape the classroom, providing she'd make copies for the other students. That was a bit of a mess, just because of coin scarf noise, etc. AND those students are mostly gone now but I'm still teaching that choreo & I don't want to go through the whole thing once every year or so!

Once I did it for them for free, just me in my living room, but just making copies was such a hassle I vowed never to do it again!

Now and then a student will suggest that if I make a video with several choreographies on it (broken down & performed) they'd buy it. I've actually considered it -- it would be clearly homemade & very cheap (under $10), of course, but could be a small revenue stream for me over time & a great help to the students.

BUT I'm so afraid that it'll get 'Out There' into the world somehow.

I'm not an instructional-video caliber teacher, and I don't want anyone thinking I'm presenting myself that way, know what I mean?

Has anyone done this? Or have other ideas on the subject?

if you produce it home made and sell it, it will get out there...bu then i also know some day a crap clip of me will show up on youtube, it's sort of unavoidable. i'd stick to the letting them tape in class, share with each other, and let the students deal with that themselves...

I used to have an instructor who compiled clips from various hafla and festival performances of all her choreographies onto a single video, back in the VHS days. She didn't put any instruction on it, just the performances. She worked a deal with one of her students in which that student would do all the duplicating, and the two of them would split the revenue - I think maybe it was 60-40 (60% to the teacher), but I could be wrong. There were no attempts to make it look like a "product", she just called it a "practice video". It was not listed on any web site as something people could buy, the only way to know it existed was word of mouth, and the only way to buy it was from the person who did the copying. A sticker on it said something about this being solely for the purpose of helping memorize the choreographies taught in class.

I think it was fine for that purpose. Sure, there were people who wished it would contain some instruction or explanation, but people seemed generally to appreciate it for what it was. To my knowledge, it never got "out there" - if it did, I never heard about it.

A couple of my beginners this year asked if they could video me demonstrating the choreo that I was teaching (actually that I'd just finished teaching). They already had the detailed choreo notes. But I do understand that there are a lot of Visual Learners out there (heck, I'm one of them) for whom it's much easier to follow a body than to read the notes.

As a one-off I agreed to it. It was strictly on the understanding that if the clip ever found its way onto YouTube, someone would have to die!

My students too were screaming for videos.

Well, my thinking is... if it makes the students comfortable enought to put on a costume and get on stage, I will be more than happy to post the upcoming class choreography on YouTube. I will even link it from my web site.

For me, It's all about the students and getting them into their comfort level.

It's just a video of me in my dancing room performing the choreography with no break downs, explainations or fancy costumes. And my students couldn't be happier. :)

My first teacher was great about video taping the choreographies and having them available for us to use. She'd do facing the camera with cues and then facing away without. It was great for the student to use for practice when a show was coming up and it also helped her keep a "catalog" so she could revisit the choreographies years later.

Don't worry too much about can happen. A lot people are technologically inept and posting anything on YouTube might be a bit of a challenge for them. If it were to make it there--- what's the worst that could happen? Someone writes an idiotic comment that no one reads? Someone rushes the link here and says "Hey, Lauren you're on YouTube?"

If it's too much of a hassel for you... that's another issue.... let a student take charge.

I can talk about since I'm a teacher who does it.

I tape myself in dance wear (sport) facing the mirroir and I dance all the choreography. Usually, in a 14 weeks session, I film it between the 6th and 8th week when I have some chances to remember it. A lot of my students complain because they would like to have earlier but that's the best I can do. I have too much to remember in a session and I don't have a good memory. That's why it takes me time to tape (like 1 h for a 4.5 minutes choreo.)
I don't like it at all but I really see a difference the next classes after "giving" the DVD. So, it can become an advantage for the teacher because the students follow better. Also, since I forget a lot, if a student ask for precisions like "Is my hand inside or outside, I can anwser, I don't remember, look at your DVD, the DVD is the reference for the show".

I must tell you that I don't provide the dance freely, I charge 8$ canadian for one DVD with one choreo on it. If they learn one in september and another one in January, they pay 2 times.

I can tell you it's A LOT of work. If I had to think about it again, I would not do it but it's too late now. But, I have to say that I keep students with this.
In the biginning when I opened my school, I was taping the choreo in 2 versions on the same DVD, one facing camera and giving my back. But since I was always doing mistakes with my arms, feet, between the 2 versions, I decided just to tape it front of mirroir. Only one student complaint about it. I won't come back to the "two versions". Never on my dead body!!!!!!!!!

You have to take time also to make copies. But you make money.

I also provide notes at the 2nd or 3rd lesson.

Hope it helps!
Caroline

I'm less worried about showing up on youtube (I'm on there anyway) than about the video winding up being sold used on, say, the Bhuz swap meet.

Or say one of my students innocently made a copy of it for her bellydancing sister in another state (I have two students with bellydancing sisters in other states). Imagine the sister loans it to a friend, who copies it. And so forth. How long before someone is selling it used as an 'instructional video' on Bhuz??? And next thing you know, I'm in one of Shira's excremental parties!!!! AAAAAH!!

I'm a good local instructor, but I don't fancy myself as pro video material.

OK, I like the idea of identifying it as 'for my students only.' on the DVD and onscreen, that would help.

Originally Posted by carolabrie

*everything*

I must have been posting at the same time as you -- thank you for this post, it was extremely helpful. I think I may do something along these lines & see how it goes!

I forgot to say... I do it since 2002 I think and I never had bad stories. The students almost buy it all. Since it's cheap, they don't copy. Only one or two that I heard of.
Also, I never seen myself on youtube or something like that.
I really explain my students the purpose of the video and to keep it for themselves. If they respect me and my conditions, so I can continue to videotape. That point is very important because when I tape it, I don't wear make up, I have a poneytail, I don't smile AT ALL (too demanding to remember what I'm supposed to do, I need all of my concentration).
They understand that and since today, I always been respected.
BUT I really think you shouldn't give it for free. You have to be paid for the extra work.
Also, I must tell you that I don't sell the DVD to a woman who wasn't (I don't know the word in English) "subcribed" to my classes/session. It wouldn't be fair for the students who paid 160$ for a session that a woman pays only 8$ to learn the same dance but on the DVD. I made only 2 exceptions to that rule and they kept it secret.
Caro

If these students are coming to class each week then it seems a bit excessive to need a video as well...perhaps you could have a class showing them how to WRITE choreography which would also be helpful for them when going to workshops with other teachers?

Seriously, it's only been in the past couple of years that people went video crazy...they don't *need* a video, it's just a nice plus IF the teacher is really keen to go down that road (sounds like a wholelottahassle to me).

I agree with you bul bul Ksa in some points.

I don't know for the USA, but here in Quebec, Canada, it's not a big part of the culture to improvise and to see students to write their own choreography. Some advanced student begin to do after 4-5 years, but really, it's not part of the culture.
Caro

I started videoing my choreographies last year and making the DVDs available to my students for a nominal fee. (I also give them printed choreographies.) So far, no real downside. Each DVD has a little message about it being for my students only, please no copying/sharing, and I think most of them have respected that. (Or at least I haven't seen them on youtube...) I use my home studio, in teaching attire, and my hubby videos me from the back, so the student can follow along but also see how the dance looks in the mirror.

One reason I decided to do this is that I can't remember my own choreographies! I wanted to revive a cane dance I had done several months earlier, but even looking at the printed steps, it was just too hard. Now I can just pop in my copy of the video and give myself a refresher. (I choreograph 30 + dances a year.)

Bint beled is right. For us, teachers who learn and write so many choreographies in a year, it's an excellent tool for ourselves to remember our stuff a couple of years (months in my case :-)) later.

Also, if you choose to teach the same choreo years later it's already taped.

For Lauren, yes, we write in the same time!!!

Caro

[QUOTE=bul_bul_ksa;12311]If these students are coming to class each week then it seems a bit excessive to need a video as well...[QUOTE]

Some of us are just slow. I did miss two classes back in September, but I don't think I can blame my poor choreography recollection on that.,f::

With a video, I have a picture-perfect model to follow, morning and evening. That really helps.

One of my students says that her toddler refuses to go to sleep unless she gets to watch my DVD. "I wanna see Teefa!!"

Caro, you've misunderstood what i wrote...I'm not suggesting she teaches them how to choreograph...I'm suggesting that she shows them how to write/notate choreography...this would be beneficial to them long term for other dance classes as well....so they start with a blank sheet and the teacher says, "we start with 2 hip bumps to the right and then move into an egyptian shimmy" and they could write something like start {, {, ^*^ (I don't expect anyone to understand that notiation...just an example.

I understand memory lapse problems, I do...but I just don't think that a teacher should be coerced into videoing if she doesn't really want to. If she wants to - that's something different.

Perhaps one of the students could even video the students themselves doing the choreo and then post THAT on youtube for all of them to download if they want/at their will?

i dont even write out the choreo for them, i ask them to do it themselves, or in groups, and i do "check" it with them. or i let them write it down the last ten minutes of class, and then they can ask questions, clarifications about transitions, hand poses, etc...

you remember much better that way, when you have written it down yourself, they understnand the structure of the music and the choreo better, than when trying to decypher my "code" for positions and movements, and it's good so they develop their own "code" when they want to choreograph themselves, or take a workshop sometime, and have the tools to get the most out of that.

but then i only teach choreo from upper-intermediate upwards, i guess beginners would not be comfortable with this.

and, yeah, just way too much hassle

Originally Posted by bul_bul_ksa

If these students are coming to class each week then it seems a bit excessive to need a video as well...perhaps you could have a class showing them how to WRITE choreography which would also be helpful for them when going to workshops with other teachers?

Seriously, it's only been in the past couple of years that people went video crazy...they don't *need* a video, it's just a nice plus IF the teacher is really keen to go down that road (sounds like a wholelottahassle to me).

Hi bub bul ksa!
You're right, I completly misunderstood you. Now I understand what you mean by write = notate.
Sorry, English is sometimes a problem and it was in that case.
Thanks for precisions.
Caro

Lauren- Cant you put a disclaimer in the title: this video was intended to be for the students of my studio as a tool for remembering class choreo only blah blah blah...it in no way represents a professional video shoot, blah blah blah, copying of htis video, even for a dance sister, is strictly prohibited for blah blah blah?

It *is* a hassle and you definitly should charge for it. $10 is reasonable, my TKD studio charges $15 for the same thing.

I love having a video of the workshops Ive been to: I cant remember choreo, cant remember the notation in the notes from the teacer or my own, so this tool is invaluable to me.

I once did a VCD on special request for a workshop (had them ready in advance). But I wouldn't do it again. First of all, those who want a video often bring their own cameras.
Second: Copyright issues.
Legally, if you do a video of yourself dancing to music and sell it, you need to
a) get permission from the musician/production company
b) pay for it.
Now this is all right when I produce my "real" instructional DVDs but just for 1 or 2 classes it's not worth the hassle.

If you don't do a) and b), the videos are illegal. And in worst case, somebody could sue you.
It's just as illegal as selling copied CDs to your students. .p::

I film myself and my dance partner and do a collection DVD so that we can remember our choreos. But we never sell them.
If you want a video, bring your own camera. (and as we saw in another thread, some teachers will not even allow this).

MEISSOUN

Well, I don't know about the whole copyright thing but plenty of instructors do the DVD thing.

Lauren, it's a pain I realize, but as a student with no memory for choreography who has to practice at home so that I don't trip over students in class, I've appreciated this more than you know.

I will send you a DVD shot for this purpose that is great but never even occurred to me to sell or otherwise use than for practice - the only concern I would have as a teacher would be someone taking my choreos and that happens anyway.

Hmmm, illegal -- good point.

Artemisia's point that they remember better if they write it down themselves reminded me why I've always chosen not to do it.

Students have a tendency to 'follow along' in the mirror in class & not learn to depend on their own memory. It's when they go home & practice that they discover which parts they really need to work on. If they had a video at home, they could just 'follow along' at home, too, and never really push themselves to store the choreo in memory.

I wonder if it makes it too easy for them to fool themselves into thinking they know it?

I provide written choreo notes on my website, but I always tell them that should be a starting point for writing notes that make sense to *them.* I rarely have a student take notes, though.

"Students have a tendency to 'follow along' in the mirror in class & not learn to depend on their own memory"

ha, this is why we have the 'let's mess it up" practice. mid way i really tell them to stop watching other people, and make them practice in a way they cannot (step a way from the mirror, all looking to different corners of the room etc), and i tell them i now expect most of them to make mistakes, but that's fine, they have to dance "throwing" themselves in, rather than trying to do it right, no counting, no looking, just moving to the music, and see if they body remembers. i will move the good students everybody is watching to the back for this as well if need be, or have them do it in groups, all so they have to stop 'folowing'. otherwise they never remember.

good, i need to remember to do this for our new stuff

[QUOTE=Lauren_;12425]

Students have a tendency to 'follow along' in the mirror in class & not learn to depend on their own memory. It's when they go home & practice that they discover which parts they really need to work on. If they had a video at home, they could just 'follow along' at home, too, and never really push themselves to store the choreo in memory.

I wonder if it makes it too easy for them to fool themselves into thinking they know it?
QUOTE]

Lauren, I totally agree that some students tend to follow along in class and not learn a dance. Heck -- I do this myself at workshops! ;-) But I find that with the DVDs, they actually do practice and learn the dance. At the end of each class session, we have a student party where each class that has learned a choreography shows that choreography to the other students. That's great incentive to learn!

Oooh, a student party!

I was thinking of having a hafla, just for my students, but I like the idea of a 'student party' better, that way I don't feel like I have to invite other troupes, or famiies, or make a big deal out of it!!!!

I'm still considering the DVD thing, but y'all have really given me a lot of new dimensions to consider. Thanks!

I have a bit of a different take on the issue. First, I don't have any problems with students who want to try and learn anything from DVDs or vids - they are a tool for learning.

However. I won't record a choreo for my students. My perspective is this - people have been learning choreographies for decades prior to video/dvd technology. It IS POSSIBLE to learn without a DVD! Sure some people have a difficult time remembering - so write it down. Practice it. I find the students who whinge about not being able to remember are the ones who go home after class and don't continue to practice until the following week. Remembering choreography is something that I consider to be a skill, just like how to do a hip drop. Yeah, I feel pretty strongly about it.

My other concerns are students who use the DVD and don't get corrective feedback, so they end up practicing the wrong thing. Then they have it embedded in their muscle memory and it is twice as hard to undo. I just dont see that DVDs or videos are any *added* advantage. Nothing beats practice practice practice.

Elljay,

It seems like you are talking about students who will take dvd of a choreography and then never go to class. For me - it's a tool - not a substitute for a teacher.

I suppose you have to just know your students and judge how they will be able to use such a tool.

all of our hafla's are like that. there is a "no audience" rule, it's only for dancers. dancers who are not my students are very welcome, but they are usually not more than 1/5 or 1/4 of the audience. and lately we have been/will be having some guests (waves at beafarhana and mekyria)
it's just our students, from baby beginners to almost pro's, we have two performance sections, one like a "show", but rather informal and one later in the evening with all the experiments in process, and there is lot's of impromtu, accidental performing going on through out the evening. hard to describe, but from all the things i do with dance, our hafla's i like the most

artemisia

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Oooh, a student party!

I was thinking of having a hafla, just for my students, but I like the idea of a 'student party' better, that way I don't feel like I have to invite other troupes, or famiies, or make a big deal out of it!!!!

I'm still considering the DVD thing, but y'all have really given me a lot of new dimensions to consider. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Oooh, a student party!

I was thinking of having a hafla, just for my students, but I like the idea of a 'student party' better, that way I don't feel like I have to invite other troupes, or famiies, or make a big deal out of it!!!!

I'm still considering the DVD thing, but y'all have really given me a lot of new dimensions to consider. Thanks!

My students *love* our student parties. It's a real bonding experience. No outside guests, just all my students from the current session. Each class that has learned a choreography performs for the other students, and my advanced dancers dazzle the newbies with solos. I order a couple of trays of baklava from Shatila, provide bottled water and silly door prizes, and we have a swap/sale table. It's lots of fun for everyone. (Lauren, I don't want to bore everyone with details but would be glad to give you more pointers on this...)

I also use these parties to get feedback on my teaching. I have little fill-in-the-blank feedback sheets that I encourage students to fill out.