Thread: What do you think of "Contemporary Oriental Dance"

I'm floating this as a name to call the continuation of Vintage Oriental Dance (also known as American Cabaret). I feel as though people like Suhaila, BDSS, Bellyqueen, Kaya and Sadie, Midnight Mirage and even Dalia Carella, Elena Lentini and others have taken the old school Vintage Oriental Dance and fused it and updated it. And I think we need to call this something besides, you know, "belly dance".

I'm suggesting "Contemporary Oriental Dance" and I was wondering if you all might get on board?

Here is how I described it in my work in progress styles primer:

More About Shems and About Belly Dance - Shems - Professional Belly Dancer serving Washington DC & Baltimore

Contemporary Oriental Style Dance (American Cabaret Continued)


Many contemporary American and other belly dancers around the world continue in the eclectic tradition of Vintage Oriental Style Dance, liberally fusing various elements of different Middle Eastern Cultures. Many have also taken it further incorporating elements Jazz, Ballet, Modern Dance, Latin Dance, Spanish and Flamenco, Rroma dancing , Hip hop, Indian dances, etc. as well as returning to the Middle East to revisit the what is happening now in Egypt, Lebanon and Turkey's dance communities.

As long as the dancer continues to have a strong base of Arabic or Turkish Oriental movement vocabulary in their repertoire, a fairly large variety of creative license is accepted under the title of "belly dance". There is also a trend towards more large theatrical style presentations. A few notable dancers and troupes I would say really represent trends in Contemporary Oriental Dance include: Suhaila Salimpour, Jillina and the Belly Dance Super Stars, Bellyqueen, Dalia Carrella (for her Dunyavi Gypsy), Elena Lentini and Tamalyn Dahlal just to name a small sampling.




What do you think? Do you buy it?

I totally buy it--it makes a good catch-all but still has enough specific meaning to it.

I like the description, and I agree it applies to certain dance styles we're seeing.

I also agree that the dancers you used as examples are doing something different from the vintage Oriental I learned in the 1980's.

However, the name doesn't feel quite right to me. I preferred your original idea of calling it "Contemporary Oriental Fusion" because that really highlighted the use of influence from non-Oriental sources (jazz, ballet, hiphop, etc.) by the dancers you are using as examples. I don't think that the use of the word "fusion" here would conflict with tribal fusion.

I think a big part of what makes the dancers you're thinking of for this category different from the Vintage Oriental is "the dance major" factor. Ie, bringing the aesthetic of what a dance major would learn into Oriental dance. So I'm trying to think how that particular aesthetic could be incorporated into a name. Hmmmm.

...it makes me glad I'm not of the COD persuasion. :)

I thought the term as you described it was more appropriate with the word "fusion" in it as well.

I dont think the GP will get the "oriental" in the name. They will be loking for Kabuki wiith techo music. But if we are talking about clarification for the bd community..I am cool with it.

I mentioned this on the other thread, but I'll add it here as well.

I like it, BUT I feel like Randa, Soraya, Nour, Dina, Orit, etc. are also 'Contemporary Oriental Dancers' so it might not be specifically descriptive enough to be useful.

I'd waffle on including 'fusion' because it can be difficult to say whether a particular dancer is 'fusing,' and with what. Yet it feels accurate to me.

I'd say "Westernized" but people would argue with that, too, and often take it as some kind of insult rather than a descriptor -- usually you hear that Randa is also 'westernized,' that because Jillina and Suhaila are both capable of Egyptian style dance they're not "Westernized"

(although the dancers themselves are the first to admit that they're adapting for Western audiences, incorporating dance training from other genres, etc, their fans often take offense.)

Innovative Orientale? (does that imply that Dina et al aren't innovative?)

Modern American Oriental? (leaves out Europe, Russia, Australia, Asia)

I just don't have a better idea.

Originally Posted by anala

I dont think the GP will get the "oriental" in the name. They will be loking for Kabuki wiith techo music. But if we are talking about clarification for the bellydance community..I am cool with it.

I always have to tell people "Oriental like Oriental Rugs...THAT Orient"

A city administrator in a city where I've been teaching an 'oriental dance' class at the parks & rec for five years suddenly objected to the description and insists that it's 'wrong.'

He is sooo disoriented....poor guy!

I think I'd leave the "fusion" component in there. To me it reads as an important nod to the greater emphasis on "Western" -- for want of a better word -- elements.

Also, this may not be widespread but I know a few people who describe what they do (closest in style to Aunt Rocky) as "Classical Oriental Dance" to mark it as an older style and distinguish it from Modern Egyptian. Looking at it on the word level, one could assume that the "opposite" of Classical Oriental Dance is Contemporary Oriental Dance, which would suggest an equivalence between Modern Egyptian and Contemporary Oriental Dance that I don't think you're going for here.

Not to be (even) long(er)-winded, but since the discussion seems to have moved over here now, I'm going to cross-post what I wrote on the other thread. I'm afraid someone turned the lights out on it while I wasn't looking.

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I'm happy you're doing this, Shems. It's a great discussion.

For me there's a (fuzzy) line between the Suhaila/Bellyqueen category and the Jillina/Aziza category. I'm trying out the Contemporary Oriental Fusion idea for the former, where the weight seems to be more on the jazz/modern side, and I like it. For me the latter (and perhaps also Amar Gamal when she's doing solo Oriental) fit better into the Modern Egyptian group with Orit and company, who after all have jazz/ballet/modern influences themselves despite what feels to me like a closer connection to the Arabic roots of the dance than I see in the COF group. But the line really is fuzzy, of course -- you can't objectively quantify the percentages of this influence and that influence and come up with a mathematical formula to put every dancer in a category that everyone will agree on. These are just my thoughts.

A while back we kicked around the term "American Egyptian" for the Jillina/Aziza category: those who are working in an "Egyptianesque" style and musical interpretation and have roots in Egyptian technique but don't take a purist approach, incorporating elements of Western dance forms, maybe bigger theatrical gestures, maybe more extensive veilwork, etc. I'm not suggesting you add another category (and I don't think we're all American), but I'm inclined to think those dancers still fit best under "Modern Egyptian," broadly construed. Does that make sense?

ETA: I should clarify that I'm thinking of Jillina's solo work when I describe her as Modern Egyptian. I've seen her do some incredibly soulful, subtle dancing that had a roomful of Arabs on their feet and captured the essence of the music in a very "eastern" way, and that response wasn't diminished at all by the inclusion of judicious amounts of bouncy, jazzy, theatrical stuff. It's a question of proportion. I'd put BDSS and Sahlala as a whole -- the big flashy production numbers especially -- under Contemporary Oriental Fusion.

I also agree that it's a good name, but it rather obliterates the actual, you know, material Orient, in favour of an assumption that North American/non-ME dancers may unproblematically define and embody the Orient. While some of us might argue that "Orient" is a western and imaginary construct anyway, there is, as my supervisor would say, significant symbolic violence attached to this appropriation. And in short, we need to acknowledge where we come from in order to distinguish ourselves from people who are from and in the material East, who deserve to be able to define and embody themselves rather than having us do it for them.

we like your "names".nothing offensive.there is a fusion girl in town that refers to what we do as "retro".we did not compliment her, shems!

Cory, please tell me who "we" are. You write in the plural a lot, and it would be helpful to know who you're speaking for. Thanks very much.

Originally Posted by anala

He is sooo disoriented....poor guy!

That made me chuckle.

Disorientaled?

You can buy the Orient at the Warehouse at present, apparently. It comes in large crates full of geisha dolls and screens and little non-functional doumbeks for scattering about your house.

Zana...dont confuse me...you know I cant spell...

Okay, I've returned to belly dance fusion, as it seems to be the preferred favorite.

I hope that it will at least serve as a guide to my students to help them get an idea of what they are seeing when the see a belly dancer, some guess at her dance background and approach.

Maybe you should consider Westernized Egyptian, as already suggested, for dancers like Jillina, Amar Gamal, etc. There are sooo many dancers that fall under this category, I think they deserve their own separate category rather than just being thrown together with any style that doesn't fit the mold.

Sorry... a bit behind in this discussion but anywho...

Shems, I heart Contemporary Oriental Dance!

It is so perfect and as a term really does encompass what is happening outside the ME in regards to the developments in Oriental dance. It has to be acknowledged somehow and I'm not sure that belly dance fusion really cuts it you know? It's too vague and doesn't seem to have the same dynamic feel as contemporary oriental dance. I could even add "western" to front of that for further clarification if I wasn't going to look like a tosser tripping over my own tongue trying to say it every time ;-)

And, the term oriental dance is easily replaceable by belly dance for those with the desire.

At this stage I wouldn't use "Contemporary" to describe an Egyptian dance category specifically, though I have used it in advertising to avoid over using "Modern".

Shems, I like it. I don't like to put fusion in there, because I think all of them are still mostly belly dance and fusion, is a loaded word sometimes.

The line "revisit what is happening now" is a little bit confusing--it's hard to revisit the present, though I get what you're trying to say, which is that these dancers also reflect modern belly dance trends in Egypt, Turkey, Lebanon, etc.

It's growing on me. "Contemporary" is to mean both "modern" and "of the west" in this context, yes? It is fitting; I guess modern can include all the fused elements of current dance styles. Hmmm, I'm just not so sure about the acronym... Trying to use it in a sentence. She does COD style. Randa is more COD than Classical Egyptian. She teaches COD. Where's a little fish-faced smilie?

Again, I cannot help but be concerned that "contemporary" = "western". Is the Middle East stuck in aspic? I thought we got past this timeless changeless Orient bull about 50 years ago... Also, is the west really a culturally identical conglomerate? Is my culture identical to that of a North American? I don't think so.

I like the term a lot, but think it needs another qualifier to indicate that it is US, eg whoever, or Egyptian, eg Randa, and so on and so forth.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

I like the term a lot, but think it needs another qualifier to indicate that it is US, eg whoever, or Egyptian, eg Randa, and so on and so forth.

Sorry, Randa was a bad example in my use-that-new-term-in-a-sentence process. ,r:; Jillina or Amar Gamal would have been more appropriate. Shems does have the Contemporary Oriental Fusion listed as a continuation of American Cabaret on her web page.

But what I'm saying is, why does "contemporary oriental" equal America? Are you guys the whole planet now? Is only America by definition "contemporary"? You need to clarify what country/culture this contemporary oriental dance comes from.

I know Shems' site is finished now, but my thought is, maybe instead of "American Cabaret", the style could be referred to as "American Oriental" and could be broken down into "Vintage American Oriental" and "Contemporary American Oriental."

Makeda

Originally Posted by Toya

I know Shems' site is finished now, but my thought is, maybe instead of "American Cabaret", the style could be referred to as "American Oriental" and could be broken down into "Vintage American Oriental" and "Contemporary American Oriental."

Makeda

*applauds*

hi shems...... I like "contemporary american oriental" better than throwing "fusion" into the terminology. I was thinking about our conversation earlier this week and I think at some point in trying to break down individual dancers' styles you get into the problem that a lot of people are well-known because they are unique dancers. So then...who do you make a separate category for, and who do you throw in a category that already exists?

Styles of tribal fusion, for instance, can be wildly different, but if they have the common ATS backbone, we might still put them in the same category... Nonetheless, I think this particular category of dance (contemporary american oriental) is an important distinction...

Another interesting discussion.
Contemporaryfor me is about presentation. Raksan of Berlin is an amazing contemporary artist in MED.
I have put together a performance for the Liverpol Arab Arts festival this year called 'Shifting Sands'.
The show features artists such as Roxanne and Wendy Buonaventura who both present MED in a very different type of theatrical context.
Venus Saleh also features using Persian dance bringing to life the concept of Minatures.
I would also consider Dawn O'Brien to be a contemporary artist with her Cyber fusion.
To contrast this we have a show called 'Sahlalla' which whilst being very traditional in the sense of MED and entertainment, it also features very up to date dance styles but I do not class this as contemporary.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

But what I'm saying is, why does "contemporary oriental" equal America? Are you guys the whole planet now? Is only America by definition "contemporary"? You need to clarify what country/culture this contemporary oriental dance comes from.

Exactly-when you think of it, unless you slavishly study and reproduce ...say Samia but dance Egyptian style belly dance you are contemporary.
What else is a dancer in Cairo doing unless she too is at some re-enactment event?

Yes, and also, you're *still* contemporary because you're situated in the present time and embodied as a person of your culture at that particular time.

I read some interesting stuff about attempting to recreate an early modern dance piece. First of all, the dance itself was pieced together from the memory of a now elderly dancer who had been in the dance company when it was still being performed, and secondly, the recreators had to work with non-dancers because the way that trained modern dancers use their bodies had changed. Quite fascinating really.