Thread: shimmi

i attended a jillina workshop last days and my mind became full of ?

do you do the shimmi with bend knees or (as jillina) with straight knees???

since i was taught old school, bent kneed, so the shimmy is loose, vigorous and visible.........i understand now, some teach straight 'modern' style, which makes for a tighter shimmy that's more glute based? i can do both, as i still train, so new techniques are always good to know, but i always go back to bent knee, since that's what i originally learned and am comfy with.....

I do both!

There is not ONE single correct way to do shimmies, but many different.

I like the straight leg shimmy because it wiggles a lot in the front. But you can not layer it on vertical figure eights or walk with it.

So basically it depends on what you want it to look like and what you want it to combine with.

MEISSOUN

Originally Posted by meissoun

I do both!

There is not ONE single correct way to do shimmies, but many different.

I like the straight leg shimmy because it wiggles a lot in the front. But you can not layer it on vertical figure eights or walk with it.

So basically it depends on what you want it to look like and what you want it to combine with.

MEISSOUN

yep, agreed on the layering...........which is much easier on a bent knee, but small circles look great with a straight knee shimmy too, dont u think?

What Meissoun said! Except that I prefer to layer with a straight knee shimmy. (Bend, straighten, bend straighten, that is... standing tall and not with pelvis tucked).

I do both as well! It looks completely different and depending on what your music says is what you will want to use. The important thing is to recognize the difference in the many varieties of shimmies and use them with control and ease!
xoxo,
-NJ

I do both, for different effects and layering.

But my 'straight knee' shimmy is less 'straight' than Jillina's.

I think the bent knee shimmy may cause a lot of stress in the hip joint, what say you all about long term damage?

my hips are fine cuz i was taught at a neutral hip( not super tucked and not sway backed, sit and bend :p), so it's very natural , clean and loose............no issues

I do both as well. I was taught bent-knee and only learned of straigh leg through my Jillina DVD's!! (did she invent this shimmy??)

I like bent knee better for layering with the lower body (hip circles, walking, etc), but straight leg for layering with the upper body (undulations, chest pops and circles, etc).

I've heard the straight-leg shimmy (which I think of as thigh-driven) referred to as the "Egyptian shimmy". One workshop instructor even said that the dancers in Egypt don't use the hip/wobble shimmy, they use the straight-leg.

Originally Posted by danielabellydance

I do both as well. I was taught bent-knee and only learned of straigh leg through my Jillina DVD's!! (did she invent this shimmy??)

Originally Posted by anala

I think the bent knee shimmy may cause a lot of stress in the hip joint, what say you all about long term damage?

I don't really understand how it might stress the joint. If you're working with good technique and alignment, it seems to me you're working well within a normal range of motion and the design of the ball & socket joint of the hip. I'm not an expert, so I'm not saying that just because I don't understand, it can't be true. I'm just asking, what kind of stress might be created? Where in the joint, and in what way?

The knees would be more at risk, from what I can see, but only if people take these unfortunate naming conventions literally and do either shimmy with truly "bent" or "straight" knees.

to create a thigh shimmy (one that you can do figure 8's with etc): stand up tall and "walk on the spot" by alternatively bending your knee's. You don't need to tuck your pelvis- let it live where it lives for this one. Let your heels come up while the balls of your feet remain on the ground. When this is sped up (and if your thighs touch) you could start a fire between your legs ;) Eventually you can do this without letting your heels come up.

to create a hip shimmy: let your bum "fall down" or place your hands on your lower back and slide them down, pushing your bum down (and letting your pelvis sit under your body). Your knee's will bend slightly when this happens; let the feet remain flat on the floor and repeat the "knee walking" motion. because you let your bum fall down, it shouldn't be doing any of the work- only jiggling like jello! your knee's do the work.

if you want to make your shimmy tighter, you would use your inner thighs (aductors) and contract them.

lauren: i agree with your comment about taking the bent or straight literally.

ie:if you are fully BENDING your knee's (sqautty dancing) then you are more at risk for hurting yourself. and a good rule to know if you are straightening to much is if you can't straighten your leg anymore, you're too far back. another thing to remember is to not say BACK BACK BACK when doing shimmy drills with students- they are more likely to snap their leg back and hyper extend and OW this makes me hurt just typing about it! instead have them focus on the bend.

Originally Posted by kiyaana

I've heard the straight-leg shimmy (which I think of as thigh-driven) referred to as the "Egyptian shimmy". One workshop instructor even said that the dancers in Egypt don't use the hip/wobble shimmy, they use the straight-leg.

Yes, I prefer a name that doesn't emphasize the knees, because it's misleading and causes people to focus on all the wrong things and exaggerate either the bent or straight knees, both of which are harmful to the body and painful to watch. "Egyptian shimmy" and "piston shimmy" seem to be fairly common alternative names.

Some Egyptian dancers -- those trained by Raqia Hassan, in particular, use the straightER leg shimmy. But I've certainly seen a variety of shimmies on Egyptian dancers. Fifi goes back and forth between the two, I think. I'm fairly certain I've seen Mona do both as well -- at the beginning of her infamous Gold Bikini Drum Solo I'm certain she's doing a piston shimmy. (albeit a tiny one!) I can tell because the flesh over her hipbones is rippling up and down, which is what happens in a piston shimmy. In the Egyptian shimmy, the navel & belly flesh moves side-to-side instead.

The straight-legged shimmy Jillina does seems different somehow from the Egyptian straight-leg shimmy taught by Raqia Hassan, Hadia, Shareen el Safy & Leyla Jouvana, anyone else think so? When Jillina shimmies, her cheeks and hair move, I've never seen that on an Egyptian dancer. Not knocking Jillina -- I LOVE Jillina -- but does hers seem different to anyone else?

Originally Posted by anyadance

to create a thigh shimmy (one that you can do figure 8's with etc): stand up tall and "walk on the spot" by alternatively bending your knee's. You don't need to tuck your pelvis- let it live where it lives for this one. Let your heels come up while the balls of your feet remain on the ground. When this is sped up (and if your thighs touch) you could start a fire between your legs ;) Eventually you can do this without letting your heels come up.

to create a hip shimmy: let your bum "fall down" or place your hands on your lower back and slide them down, pushing your bum down (and letting your pelvis sit under your body). Your knee's will bend slightly when this happens; let the feet remain flat on the floor and repeat the "knee walking" motion. because you let your bum fall down, it shouldn't be doing any of the work- only jiggling like jello! your knee's do the work.

if you want to make your shimmy tighter, you would use your inner thighs (aductors) and contract them.

Excellent breakdown, this is just how I teach it. Are we twins separated at birth? Also, in the first one, the weight is more forward, on the balls of your feet, ribcage needs to reach forward & up. In the second one, the weight is much more in the heels.

When Hadia teaches it, instead of 'BACK BACK BACK' she says "Blah blah blah" to emphasize how relaxed your legs are. I LOVE that!

Yes, I'm sure some variety exists among Egyptian dancers, too. I find it interesting when workshop instructors make blanket statements like that.

(I LOVE that "gold bikini" costume on Fifi!!!)

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Some Egyptian dancers -- those trained by Raqia Hassan, in particular, use the straightER leg shimmy. But I've certainly seen a variety of shimmies on Egyptian dancers. Fifi goes back and forth between the two, I think. I'm fairly certain I've seen Mona do both as well -- at the beginning of her infamous Gold Bikini Drum Solo I'm certain she's doing a piston shimmy. (albeit a tiny one!) I can tell because the flesh over her hipbones is rippling up and down, which is what happens in a piston shimmy. In the Egyptian shimmy, the navel & belly flesh moves side-to-side instead.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Excellent breakdown, this is just how I teach it. Are we twins separated at birth? Also, in the first one, the weight is more forward, on the balls of your feet, ribcage needs to reach forward & up. In the second one, the weight is much more in the heels.

When Hadia teaches it, instead of 'BACK BACK BACK' she says "Blah blah blah" to emphasize how relaxed your legs are. I LOVE that!

most likely- but we've taken stuff with Hadia...it shows ;)

however, i was at a workshop with hadia in october and someone asked about the weight location and she actually said NO. you want your weight to stay in the middle, where it should be- otherwise you're taking yourself out of alignment and giving yourself the oppurtunity to lean too far back (and bend your knee's too much) or forward (and look like your jump skiier).

i stood up and did this now and i can go inbetween the two by just standing up and then letting my bum fall down. it feels like the weight comes forward into your toes because you're letting your heels up but essentially, you want to weight to remain in the same place to ensure you don't go forward to backwards.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Yes, I prefer a name that doesn't emphasize the knees, because it's misleading and causes people to focus on all the wrong things and exaggerate either the bent or straight knees, both of which are harmful to the body and painful to watch. "Egyptian shimmy" and "piston shimmy" seem to be fairly common alternative names.

Curious... why "piston"? the Egyptian/Straight Leg/Thigh ..l;, shimmy doesn't really produce a piston type action.

I was under the impression that term piston was sometimes interchanged with the bent leg shimmy because of the more obvious hip up/down look the shimmy gives?

I'm partial to the piston and glute-driven shimmies, as I have a minimal amount of body fat (aka jiggle ..g.: ) to work with, and the cool side-to-side effect of an Egyptian style shimmy just seems to get lost on my body type. (I look like a shivering chihuahua with frantically pumping knees). Looks amazing on most dancers, but it's not very attractive on me.

I think bottom line is, experiment with several methods and do what feels and looks good on your body type: there is no right or wrong way to shimmy. Leyla Jouvana's shimmy DVD is a great place to start. Have fun!

Originally Posted by NandaDncer

Curious... why "piston"? the Egyptian/Straight Leg/Thigh ..l;, shimmy doesn't really produce a piston type action.

I was under the impression that term piston was sometimes interchanged with the bent leg shimmy because of the more obvious hip up/down look the shimmy gives?

I guess I should have added the word 'respectively.'

What I meant was that I prefer "piston" rather than "bent knee" and "Egyptian" rather than "straight knee"

(although i don't really like "Egyptian" as a name because it implies that the other shimmy isn't Egyptian, and that just isn't true!)

Originally Posted by Lauren_

The straight-legged shimmy Jillina does seems different somehow from the Egyptian straight-leg shimmy taught by Raqia Hassan, Hadia, Shareen el Safy & Leyla Jouvana, anyone else think so? When Jillina shimmies, her cheeks and hair move, I've never seen that on an Egyptian dancer. Not knocking Jillina -- I LOVE Jillina -- but does hers seem different to anyone else?

It does seem different, I agree. I think of Jillina's shimmy as a more robust version of Raqia's, using the same technique and instruction, but with a more exaggerated outcome. I see her shimmy everywhere, seems many dancers have mastered it whilst I still fail miserably..... :(

Originally Posted by joanneraks

I see her shimmy everywhere, seems many dancers have mastered it whilst I still fail miserably..... :(

As I mentioned previously, I think everybody's own unique body fat/muscle composition factors hugely into the look of this shimmy.

Being thin, petite and athletic with hardly an ounce of body fat, I would probably throw my back out and need knee replacement surgery before I got to the point where my cheeks were shaking. No matter how I do 'em, my shimmies stay tight and localized to my hips, thighs, butt and lower abs. My more voluptuous friends, God bless them, can get that kickass "earthquake" effect seemingly without breaking a sweat.

Skinny minnies who have mastered this move can correct me if I'm wrong (and feel free to point out what I might be doing wrong!) but I think some body types just do things differently. Vivaaaaaaaa la difference!

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

As I mentioned previously, I think everybody's own unique body fat/muscle composition factors hugely into the look of this shimmy.

Being thin, petite and athletic with hardly an ounce of body fat, I would probably throw my back out and need knee replacement surgery before I got to the point where my cheeks were shaking. No matter how I do 'em, my shimmies stay tight and localized to my hips, thighs, butt and lower abs. My more voluptuous friends, God bless them, can get that kickass "earthquake" effect seemingly without breaking a sweat.

Skinny minnies who have mastered this move can correct me if I'm wrong (and feel free to point out what I might be doing wrong!) but I think some body types just do things differently. Vivaaaaaaaa la difference!

Naw, you certainly have a point--different body types DEFINITELY make a difference in how shimmies look. And it's not just fat amounts--torso length and the differential between waist and hip measurement make a big difference in how they look too. This is why I tell my students not to try to emulate someone else's shimmy--fall in love with your OWN shimmy. That said, the way you apply any technique can make a difference (for example, that straighter legged Egyptian shimmy *can* work on a skinny girl...but it's harder to get the ripple. The skinny girl must reeeeeeaaally hit the perfect level of relaxation in the muscles in the back of the thighs/butt/abs that still allows the movement to happen but allows the muscles to be soft and flap about a bit in lieu of fat/skin. The shimmy becomes more skeletal and more relaxed. I'm not describing this well, but trust me. This is what I had to learn to do for a while to soften mine up.)

But, hey, the good (and bad) news is, time and gravity changes everything--even in relatively small amounts.;-) Even if you never have babies or gain much weight, over time your body mass will redistribute and your skin will lose collagen and fit more loosely in the abdominal area, and this will change the look of your shimmies. So...moral of the story is, even if you are a "skinny minnie" now and don't use the a particular shimmy in performance much, learn to do it and keep testing it from time to time--somewhere on down the road, it may look great on you!

We call the 'straight-leg' shimmy the "RaqiaHassan" shimmy (cuz she uses it so much -- I don't know who invented it) and we call the 'bent-leg' shimmy the up&down shimmy (cuz it's less confusing than 'piston')

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I guess I should have added the word 'respectively.'

What I meant was that I prefer "piston" rather than "bent knee" and "Egyptian" rather than "straight knee"

(although i don't really like "Egyptian" as a name because it implies that the other shimmy isn't Egyptian, and that just isn't true!)

Gotcha... was wondering if our naming conventions were really that different. No. Just my reading comprehension

i was taught the bent one ...and my hips only move in that way. during the jillina's stage and the leg-shimmy working i was going mad because I cant work!!! jillina told me I was too straight or too bent...ugh!!!

i feel like a robot with the leg shimmy ...sooo rigid!!

Originally Posted by heneras

i feel like a robot with the leg shimmy ...sooo rigid!!

Hmmm...well...there's a leg *vibration* that feels kind of rigid (because you're "freezing" certain muscles), but there's a rather straight-legged leg shimmy that shouldn't feel rigid at all--but some people feel rigid doing it because they're not relaxing the leg muscles enough while they use them.

Here's the dirty little secret about doing a leg shimmy: It's as much about the muscles you relax as it is about the muscles you use. Also...try starting your shimmy on an exhalation. This will help you ease your muscles properly into the shimmy (rather than on an inhalation which tends to make you feel more like you're "pulling in" and might influence that rigid feeling.) It may sound silly, but it really does help.

Originally Posted by aamel_MirahAmmal

Naw, you certainly have a point--different body types DEFINITELY make a difference in how shimmies look. And it's not just fat amounts--torso length and the differential between waist and hip measurement make a big difference in how they look too. This is why I tell my students not to try to emulate someone else's shimmy--fall in love with your OWN shimmy. That said, the way you apply any technique can make a difference (for example, that straighter legged Egyptian shimmy *can* work on a skinny girl...but it's harder to get the ripple. The skinny girl must reeeeeeaaally hit the perfect level of relaxation in the muscles in the back of the thighs/butt/abs that still allows the movement to happen but allows the muscles to be soft and flap about a bit in lieu of fat/skin. The shimmy becomes more skeletal and more relaxed. I'm not describing this well, but trust me. This is what I had to learn to do for a while to soften mine up.)

But, hey, the good (and bad) news is, time and gravity changes everything--even in relatively small amounts.;-) Even if you never have babies or gain much weight, over time your body mass will redistribute and your skin will lose collagen and fit more loosely in the abdominal area, and this will change the look of your shimmies. So...moral of the story is, even if you are a "skinny minnie" now and don't use the a particular shimmy in performance much, learn to do it and keep testing it from time to time--somewhere on down the road, it may look great on you!

Ha! I KNOW I'm never having kids, but I suppose it only makes sense that my penchant for pasta will catch up with me well into my thirties ..g.: As for now, I'd probably have to take massive volumes to horse tranquilizers to reach that level of relaxation....so shivering, knock-kneed chihuahua I will be, at least until I flesh out or chill out.

Good point, though. Virginia of Miami teaches a cool trick for mastering the straight-legged shimmy: do it standing on one leg, to make sure that the movement is coming from the leg. That would be a good one to practice.

And A-HA! The torso length thing makes perfect sense. I have a super long torso and no hips, which could explain why my shimmies kind of seem to stop just above the belly button. Now, to take the wonkiness and make it my own...

(... backs off from this thread hurriedly, developing goose flesh all over her body...) ..l;,

Wow, I suffered sudden recall of a bellydance school owner in my area, who argued with me that bellydance doesn`t need to be taught by professional dancers (his self made `stars` learned to dance from DVD`s, and from internet, then rolled on the floor in each restaurant performance, advertising themselves as Egyptian bellydancers), and then: (the point of it all) invited Jillina to teach a workshop for his school! What the heck did he mean ?

All I want to say is: practicing shimmy is much more important then any discussion.