Thread: Advice on instructor issues

I am asking for some advice--hoping that outside input will give my problem new light. Please understand my need for discretion..c::
I have been a long time student of my current instructor, who is wonderful and been a mentor for many as well. The problem is that some of her students, myself included---realize that we are moving past her level of teaching and classes and are no longer getting what we used to out of them.
It also seems that she is not teaching at the same level she used to---we think that health and other life issues are probably part of it....maybe burn out too....and she did not have had students before that advanced to the level we did. You see, she was away from it for a long time and then took it up again. Don't get me wrong, she's taught us a lot, and still has a wealth of knowledge---but times change, and there are so many more resources and opportunities out there now than when she started.
That said---she used to be very supportive and encouraging. In addition to the quality of the classes slipping, now she also is very controlling. She gets upset if we want to try workshops or events without her, or try classes with another teacher, or dance with others---even each other. (The troupe has pretty much fallen apart -that's another story- so it's not that conflict, and we never had any type of contracts anyways)
With all that, you lose either way if you talk to her, or don't talk to her.....if you say something that's not how she thinks, she doesn't like it, which prevents anyone from trying to be straightforward with her. Basically, she says she want you to be honest, but if you are she's unhappy---and if you try to spare her feelings she's unhappy with you too and says you're keeping secrets.
You all probably get it by now---and I'm sure it's an age old dilema! No one wants to hurt her or give up on her completely---but how do we get thru to her?

I will weigh in here...as a teacher who has only been teaching just a few years and really had no business starting with only a year of classes under my bedlah (long story) There will be students who will (I hope) get very good. If I do a good job and have students with natural talent and drive, they should get better than me. There are troupe members right now who take classes from and with me and their skill levels are better than mine in some respects.

I feel the mirror is your best teacher (if you are willing to really see) after you get to a certain level. Dont worry about seeking out other sources of knowledge, that is her problem, not yours.

Originally Posted by Julhanna

That said---she used to be very supportive and encouraging. In addition to the quality of the classes slipping, now she also is very controlling. She gets upset if we want to try workshops or events without her, or try classes with another teacher, or dance with others---even each other. (The troupe has pretty much fallen apart -that's another story- so it's not that conflict, and we never had any type of contracts anyways)

Julhanna, you are responsible for your dance education and you are free agent. I would turn and run from any teacher who didn't want you to grow and expand your horizons. Moreover, I would not study with any teacher who is herself not still actively training.

I have known (and heard of) dancers who are stuck in a time warp, still doing and teaching everything just as they were in the 1970's and 1980's (except more poorly, because they haven't continued to get advanced coaching and peer review), teaching all the same suboptimal techinique and misinformation (despite better resources available now for us to learn from).

I think you already know it is time to move on.

Good advise Sedonia...it will be hard, cause I still look at my first teacher as my Belly Mom...but you have to grow. I think its great you want to learn from others. I wish I had more like you!

I always encourage my students to take with other teachers. I tell them flat out that I can only teach them so much and there is just so much out ther to learn. I support them as much as I can in their dance. And I always say that you have to continue to learn, otherwise you will grow stagnant..then moss will grow on you, and it is just not an attractive look. I do like to know where my students are studying though. I suppose it's the mother hen in me. I like to know that they are in good hands. So, maybe you want to have the discussion with your teacher. I hope that she takes it in stride. Best of luck to you!

Nilaja

Originally Posted by Julhanna

I have been a long time student of my current instructor, who is wonderful and been a mentor for many as well. The problem is that some of her students, myself included---realize that we are moving past her level of teaching and classes and are no longer getting what we used to out of them.

Julhanna, I think it's great that you don't want to hurt her feelings, and that you value the many things you learned from her over the years. You're experiencing a conflict between your own needs as a growing dancer versus the feelings of friendship/relationship that have led you to stay loyal for as long as you have.

Originally Posted by Julhanna

It also seems that she is not teaching at the same level she used to---we think that health and other life issues are probably part of it....maybe burn out too....and she did not have students before that advanced to the level we did.

I have known teachers in the past who indeed allowed their teaching skills to suffer due to divorce, stress, burn-out, and other issues. One time I asked one of these people why she continued to teach when it was so obvious that her heart was no longer in it, and her response was, "I need the money." If you believe that this is true of your teacher, then you can feel better about leaving her. After all, if she now views her class as a job that doesn't motivate her any more, then she no longer cares about how her behavior affects you. You would be justified in finding a teacher who is motivated at least in part by helping you grow.

Originally Posted by Julhanna

That said---she used to be very supportive and encouraging. In addition to the quality of the classes slipping, now she also is very controlling. She gets upset if we want to try workshops or events without her, or try classes with another teacher, or dance with others---even each other.

I believe this is because she senses that you're discovering the fact there are many other excellent options out there, and she's afraid she won't measure up. So she feels threatened, and the controlling behavior is an attempt to keep you from deciding that your needs are no longer being met in her classes.

If it's any help, try to remind yourself that your teacher has brought your current dissatisfaction upon herself. She failed to obtain the necessary continuing education to enable her to teach more advanced students. You did not make the decision for her to quit growing, she made that decision for herself.

I had an instructor, in a previous bellydance life, that sounds a lot like this. My instructor, as time went on, became burnt out and my instructor became rather nasty towards students. Making personal comments about dancers and saying rude things to students to embarrass them in class. You could tell that she was burnt out and really needed to stop teaching - or at least take some time off and regroup. Sure, she had a wealth of knowledge and I was still learning new things but the nastiness continued. I really did not understand the extent of the "abuse" until I left. After speaking with fellow dancers that also left, we all determined that the instructor actually emotionally abused us. It has taken me a long time to get over this but I am making progress.

I say - leave now before it begins to get ugly. I never want anyone to have to go through what I went through. It has been a few years now since I left and I am still dealing with this.

It is important to honor our past but to look toward our future. Take the first step - I know it is hard - and find your next instructor. You will be so glad that you did. I am.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Julhanna, I think it's great that you don't want to hurt her feelings, and that you value the many things you learned from her over the years. You're experiencing a conflict between your own needs as a growing dancer versus the feelings of friendship/relationship that have led you to stay loyal for as long as you have.

It's like you read my mind Shira.....

I believe this is because she senses that you're discovering the fact there are many other excellent options out there, and she's afraid she won't measure up. So she feels threatened, and the controlling behavior is an attempt to keep you from deciding that your needs are no longer being met in her classes.

If it's any help, try to remind yourself that your teacher has brought your current dissatisfaction upon herself. She failed to obtain the necessary continuing education to enable her to teach more advanced students. You did not make the decision for her to quit growing, she made that decision for herself.

So is there a way to gracefully approach all this without the ugly scene I'm dreading? Might she perhaps see what's happened if it's pointed out to her?
There was an instructor a few hours away that was doing this to her students and we'd even talked about it amongst ourselves---yet it's who she's become........

This is what I needed some good advice from people who have been there!
Getting the different perspectives has really made me feel not so alone.....
but I still am lost on how to handle it all.......

Theesefield, she used to feel the way you do at one point too---how does
someone not realize that you can learn so much from so many others,
but still feel grounded to your original roots?

Please, keep the comments coming---ya'll have made me feel a bit more
sane now!

If your wishing you were doing something else during class, and you know how much better class can be? Then I'd go somewhere else that has what you're looking for.
I have the same problem.
When I'm able to start dancing again, I'm going to go somewhere else.
My instructor has used the same exact music for well over a year...I am so sick of that cd!
I agree with Shira also!
She needs the money.

Originally Posted by Julhanna

So is there a way to gracefully approach all this without the ugly scene I'm dreading? Might she perhaps see what's happened if it's pointed out to her?

I don't think that pointing it out to her will change anything.

So, here are a few options to consider:

1. Identify something the other teacher teaches that this one does not. For example, a specific skill such as floor work or double veil or sword balancing or something else that your current teacher simply doesn't offer in her classes. She'll be less likely to take it personally if you say, "I've been wanting to learn xx, which you don't teach, so I've decided to start attending Hildegard Hamhocker's classes so I can learn it." For a while, attend both. Over time, go to Oriiginal Teacher's classes less often until you eventually fade away.

2. Tell your teacher you're experiencing a sort of "crisis of faith" with your dance, in which you feel as though you're no longer growing. Make it sound as though it's YOUR problem, and you're NOT blaming her. Tell her you need to take some time off to evaluate what you want to do next with your dance, and take a few weeks to "think it over". Then, after taking a break, sign up for classes with the new teacher. Don't sneak around - tell the old teacher that's what you've decided to do, and that your reason for doing it was that you thought getting someone else's input into your dance is the kick in the butt you need right now to take it to the next level. And then tell her you know you'll miss her, but you feel like the teen who has just graduated and is ready to start the next phase of her life, but you'll always treasure her for nurturing you into the dancer you are today.

3. Tell your teacher that you yourself aspire to teach "someday", and you'd like to experience some other teaching styles and classroom formats now while you're still a student, because you believe that doing so will make you a better teacher when the time comes. At first, you might still take some classes with Original Teacher, but over time you might fade away.

Whatever you do, DO NOT all of you leave at the same time. I've seen teachers feel deeply hurt when a whole group leaves at once. It's easier to take if people filter away one at a time - then it doesn't seem so much like a full-scale rebellion or personal attack.

Great advice here!!

PS..You're not one of mine are you? ;-)

There has been wonderful advice here!
Here I've been so frought over the whole thing, and at class tonite I found out that my instructor is leaving! Her husband is getting transferred in his job, and they have no choice but to go---so my guess is that she's not happy about it and that's what we've been dealing with----some type of long transition, so she knew for a year? or something.....
What makes it all worse is that she didn't just tell us, but that it all got to this point! Classes end next week and we were supposed to start the week after the holiday...so that's what we got-sorry, moving, no more classes.

So I was trying to work it out when I rightfully should have been told to start looking for a teacher. I can't be gratefull enough for the awesome advice ya'll gave me, it sure did give me so much to think about overall.
What a relief to know that many of us have the same problems.

Originally Posted by theesfield

And I always say that you have to continue to learn, otherwise you will grow stagnant..then moss will grow on you, and it is just not an attractive look. Nilaja

..l;, That moldy look is just so hard to get right.

Originally Posted by Julhanna

There has been wonderful advice here!
Here I've been so frought over the whole thing, and at class tonite I found out that my instructor is leaving! Her husband is getting transferred in his job, and they have no choice but to go---so my guess is that she's not happy about it and that's what we've been dealing with----some type of long transition, so she knew for a year? or something.....
What makes it all worse is that she didn't just tell us, but that it all got to this point! Classes end next week and we were supposed to start the week after the holiday...so that's what we got-sorry, moving, no more classes.

So I was trying to work it out when I rightfully should have been told to start looking for a teacher. I can't be gratefull enough for the awesome advice ya'll gave me, it sure did give me so much to think about overall.
What a relief to know that many of us have the same problems.

Wow, what a bomb shell.

Sounds like the class was carrying more of the teacher's problems that she should've allowed. Though I wonder why she was resistant to the idea of her students continuing education if she was leaving anyway...?

Being a teacher can be a heady experience, you are generally well liked, the centre of attention and sought after for your advice on all things dance and then some.

A good teacher leaves her ego at the door and keeps these factors under control. Though if a teacher that is usually good is a bit emotionally weak for any given reason, students can be an easy way to boost their confidence. Perhaps that was where she was at and the thought of her pseudo self esteem (students) leaving her in anyway was scary.

What ever the reasons are, you have to accept that her emotional well-being is/was not your responsibility and not to continue to beat yourself up over any lingering questions over why she did what.

Originally Posted by NandaDncer

..l;, That moldy look is just so hard to get right.

You might not like it at first, but after a while it grows on you......!
..l;, ,r:;

Originally Posted by firefly5

You might not like it at first, but after a while it grows on you......!
..l;, ,r:;

*snort*

Originally Posted by firefly5

You might not like it at first, but after a while it grows on you......!
..l;, ,r:;

..l;, ..l;, ..l;,
I just spewed my tea..c:: ! Thanks alot Firefly5,r:; !
..l;, ..l;, ..l;,

Julhanna, I'm so sorry for the frustration you've been under and for the poor way your instructor handled this but at least your issue has resolved itself without you carrying around any residual guilt! It's likely that she hasn't said anything because she was hoping something would change and is considering this a 2 week notice type of thing. It's normal for all of us to pull back from relationships that we know are coming to an end even while desperately trying to hold on to them; I think that's probably what's been going on... Doesn't really excuse the behavior but we are all just human after all and we all have our own baggage. Try to enjoy the time you have left with her and good luck with finding a new instructor/mentor!Blessings,
Rach

Thanks ya'll again. I suppose it is just frustrating the amount of emmotion invested in the whole event when it all could be avoided. I definately have a different perspective on some things now, and received advice that is invaluable for right now and my future!

If this helped someone else, or a teacher out there sees herself heading the same direction and can change things because of what they saw here---then it is all worth it so many ways.

Originally Posted by firefly5

You might not like it at first, but after a while it grows on you......!
..l;, ,r:;

Yeah. It kind of mushrooms.

Oh good grief! .w.: That certainly was not at all courteous or even respectful of her students of her. I can't even begin to imagine doing that to my own students. There's the investment of time, energy, money, et al on their part.

Though I will say that I had a co-worker do that to me once (the department's head secretary at the time - my position now). One week before beginning of the academic year she just walked out of the office, never said a word to me. She had tendered her resignation in advance, but I had to find out from staff in the Dean's office.

Now take yourself a deep breath to steady your nerves, take site on your next instructor, and let yourself fly.

Originally Posted by Julhanna

Here I've been so frought over the whole thing, and at class tonite I found out that my instructor is leaving! <snip>...so that's what we got-sorry, moving, no more classes.
So I was trying to work it out when I rightfully should have been told to start looking for a teacher.

Originally Posted by Shalimah

Yeah. It kind of mushrooms.

Moss & mushroom... ..l;, ..l;, ..l;,

Only on Bhuz, and on the north side of the tree...