Thread: What is the origin of the zaghareet?

At the end of a performance and mini-lesson party, I usually teach the ladies how to zaghareet.

This past weekend, one of the ladies asked me if the "lalalalalalala" sound was actually saying "Allah" over and over again very quickly.

I said, "I don't think so, it's a sound used to communicate joy or encourage a dancer" and she said, "OR going to war" ..l;, .w.: ,r:;

I've actually heard that one before, is it some ignorant ME stereotype or is there actually some truth to it? How DID the zaghareet come about?

i first heard it in the movie,"lawrance of arabia"..that helped because some think only women do it.
so, yes, into battle too.
the most touching story about our joyful moise came to me in the early 60's.
the monuments in egypt are placed according to the sky when built.when they built the aswan damn, they moved abu sambal....sp !..down the nile to higher groumd.as it went down the nile to the new site, the women did a low mournful zagg, because they knew it was wrong and sad.
i recently watched a documentary about a lost hebrew tribs in lower africa...they are very "black", but use the zagg too!
it is an awesome "sound", i no longer applaun, :)

unrelated but I once did it in a Middle Eastern Hooka bar and this guy, at the bar, said - "this is not Mexico".

All us dancers started laughing so hard that the guy eventually walked out. I never really thought of a zaghareet being hispanic...

ok - had to share... :-)

Originally Posted by ravenadesigns

unrelated but I once did it in a Middle Eastern Hooka bar and this guy, at the bar, said - "this is not Mexico".

All us dancers started laughing so hard that the guy eventually walked out. I never really thought of a zaghareet being hispanic...

ok - had to share... :-)

I used to hear ululations coming from the Aztlan (mexican) club during our High School International Festivals all the time. It did not sound exactly like the Zahghareet; very similar though.

there are native american "calls" simular too.
one of our dancer/drummers has a half arab son.he loved the robert marabel concert, noted that the call the used touched his heart.
to me, it just shows the migration of people.

My understanding is that it is a sound of joy and celebration but also of war. Could be wrong tho...it has happened before!

I totally thought only Egyptian women did it at weddings! That's what a teacher once told me!

Men do it too, not very much. I've seen it in old Arab musical youtube clips. It can be for joy or encouragement. In Lawrence of Arabia, that was group of women doing it on the cliff as they rode out to war.
The Basque do a similar thing. I think any culture with wide open spaces to communicate across will develop something like it that will carry.

Huh. So men DO do it, I was totally under the impression it was a chick thing only. And I have to say I'm surprised that it's used as a battle cry - I was expecting one that to be soundly debunked by Bhuzzers.

Thanks, ladies! Bhuzzers = smart :)

Originally Posted by Asra*

Huh. So men DO do it, I was totally under the impression it was a chick thing only. And I have to say I'm surprised that it's used as a battle cry - I was expecting one that to be soundly debunked by Bhuzzers.

Thanks, ladies! Bhuzzers = smart :)

I've come to the conclusion (due to INSANELY conflicting reports from reliable persons) that it varies by regions. In some regions, it's women only. In other regions, men do it, too.

My old Egyptian boss told me never to use it as applause as he said it was for war or weddings. He was from Cairo. I had a post up awhile back asking about this. The general consensus seemed to be that it wasn't meant to be 'applause', but that it is something done when someone graduates, or gets married, or some *big* accomplishment. Then again, there were people in the ME doing the zaghareet at several dance performances I've seen online so...jury might still be out. Still confused a bit here. I don't think it's only a female thing...

An Egyptian friend once told me my zaghareet sounded a bit Saudi (at first I thought he meant 'saucy', which was cool. I had just won the zaghareet contest at Zaina Hart's Double Crown contest in Portland/Vancouver, and was feeling pretty saucy, which is why I was zaghareeting near him in the first place.)

He could not tell me why he thought this, though, even though I tried to dissect it a bit with him out of curiosity. He thought maybe it was because I kept my tongue inside my mouth, and he associated the sound with women expressing emotion at weddings and funerals of his Cairo youth, and tongues were apparently out in full force.

Most of my Egyptian friends have seemed to think of it as a combination both strange but endearing when hearing belly dancers zaghareet in a non-zeffa situation.

The zaghroot in 'Battle of Algiers' is stunningly creepy and well used by the filmmakers.

Also--Xena anyone?

I think ululations are used all over, and have different uses in different places (not just Africa and the Near East). Our use as encouragement and approval and applause in the North American belly dance scene(s) is just another adaptation.

what an awesome discussion !

A lot of my bellydance friends use it to hail each other when out in bars and things. Once, I met friends somewhere, spotted them, did it, and obviously they'd been doing it all evening because as I walked towards their table, I heard a guy say "I think it's a Xena convention."

You can tell the "is it Allah" lady that a) the name of God is not automatically associated with jihad, love, and b) in Egypt and various other places they don't actually do it by going lalalalalala, they waggle their tongue from side to side in a way that I personally find icky and so don't do. Can't say Allah sideways.

My understanding is that it's pretty much a sound of yay.

My friend who teaches refugees and migrants English has used it in classes with women from all around the ME and Africa as a kind of attention-getter and bonding exercise and she said it was lovely. She and her Egyptian friend started off, and all the women from various places would sort of go "ooh!" and then start doing their own version.

the first time I heard it was on a national geographic documentary on (I believe Beduins)

A wife had been accused of cheating on her husband. The trial (where it would be decided if she would live or die) was that they heated a cast iron skillet on a fire. She had to lick the bottom of the skillet. If her tongue stuck to it, she was guilty, if it didn't, she would live.

Her husband was there holding her hand while she was "tried". When her tongue didn't stick, she made the sound and all of her relatives did as well.

I've never heard other than the zaghareet originated as a battle cry that has evolved into a sound of welcome, joy and approval. My understanding also is that it is heard pretty much all over the world in many cultures, not just in the Middle East.

For what it's worth, movies where you can hear the ululation used as a war cry include Lawrence of Arabia, The Mummy (w/Brandon Frazier -- and in that movie, the prison warden uses it when he finds the blue gold scarabs. . .), Robin Hood Prince of Thieves (by the Celts) and Dances with Wolves (by Native Americans).

About 25 years ago, when the first troupe I belonged to was dancing at a local festival, we zaghareeted, and someone in the audience commented to a friend of mine that she'd never heard that sound outside her family or at Native American festivals they attended.

my 2cents

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

My old Egyptian boss told me never to use it as applause as he said it was for war or weddings. He was from Cairo. I had a post up awhile back asking about this. The general consensus seemed to be that it wasn't meant to be 'applause', but that it is something done when someone graduates, or gets married, or some *big* accomplishment. Then again, there were people in the ME doing the zaghareet at several dance performances I've seen online so...jury might still be out. Still confused a bit here. I don't think it's only a female thing...

If it was only for war or weddings, as your boss said, would it still be heard in so many music recordings? That's part of the reason I always thought the zaghareet was just a general sound of joy.

Originally Posted by kina

the first time I heard it was on a national geographic documentary on (I believe Beduins)

A wife had been accused of cheating on her husband. The trial (where it would be decided if she would live or die) was that they heated a cast iron skillet on a fire. She had to lick the bottom of the skillet. If her tongue stuck to it, she was guilty, if it didn't, she would live.

Her husband was there holding her hand while she was "tried". When her tongue didn't stick, she made the sound and all of her relatives did as well.

Uh.

Originally Posted by Asra*

If it was only for war or weddings, as your boss said, would it still be heard in so many music recordings? That's part of the reason I always thought the zaghareet was just a general sound of joy.

In Khally Balak Men Zouzou, when Zouzou excitedly comes home to tell her family that her ability to run fast won the cup for her college in a track meet, the family zaghareets in celebration of her success. This was neither a war nor a wedding. I stand by the "general sound of joy" explanation.

Now, what the boss *may* have meant was that frequent zaghareet by belly dance audiences seems weird. From what I've seen in Egypt and movies, the zaghareet are triggered by something specific happening to motivate them (receiving good news, bride entering the reception hall), and not something that people randomly do all night long at an ordinary hafla. (In the preceding sentence I'm using the word "hafla" to refer to a party in someone's home in Egypt.) I'd also agree that this belly dance use of zaghareet as a sort of applause *is* odd by the standards of Middle Eastern people.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

In Khally Balak Men Zouzou, when Zouzou excitedly comes home to tell her family that her ability to run fast won the cup for her college in a track meet, the family zaghareets in celebration of her success. This was neither a war nor a wedding. I stand by the "general sound of joy" explanation.

Now, what the boss *may* have meant was that frequent zaghareet by belly dance audiences seems weird. From what I've seen in Egypt and movies, the zaghareet are triggered by something specific happening to motivate them (receiving good news, bride entering the reception hall), and not something that people randomly do all night long at an ordinary hafla. (In the preceding sentence I'm using the word "hafla" to refer to a party in someone's home in Egypt.) I'd also agree that this belly dance use of zaghareet as a sort of applause *is* odd by the standards of Middle Eastern people.

Okay, that makes sense.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

You can tell the "is it Allah" lady that a) the name of God is not automatically associated with jihad, love, and b) in Egypt and various other places they don't actually do it by going lalalalalala, they waggle their tongue from side to side in a way that I personally find icky and so don't do. Can't say Allah sideways.

..l;,

Well at least THAT little tidbit can be put to rest. It smacked of cockamamie to me but I couldn't be sure!

An Egyptian told me that when he admitted to his mom that he had failed his high school exams, she opened the apartment door and did a zaghrout in the hallway. All of the neighbors came to see what important event was to be announced, so she declared: "My son failed his exams!"

She effectively embarrassed him into passing them the next time around. When he was able to come home with the happy news, she looked at him, said, "That's nice, honey." No zaghrout ..cr.:

Originally Posted by zumarrad

A lot of my bellydance friends use it to hail each other when out in bars and things. Once, I met friends somewhere, spotted them, did it, and obviously they'd been doing it all evening because as I walked towards their table, I heard a guy say "I think it's a Xena convention."

Before I even started bellydancing my sister and I would use a similar sound to located each other in department stores if we seperated. We always get the weirdest looks!

Originally Posted by zumarrad

A lot of my bellydance friends use it to hail each other when out in bars and things. Once, I met friends somewhere, spotted them, did it, and obviously they'd been doing it all evening because as I walked towards their table, I heard a guy say "I think it's a Xena convention."

Before I even started bellydancing my sister and I would use a similar sound to locate each other in department stores if we seperated. We always get the weirdest looks!

To Asra and others- what Shira said. My boss wasn't that great with the English, but yes, he was trying to convey that it was used for specific things and not as applause. Please forgive me as I am very ill and having a hard time communicating effectively! My boss brought this up because he saw people in an audience doing this at a show and kept shaking his head saying 'they should not do this, this is not right' and later explained that it was for momentous events (ie, war, weddings, etc, as examples), not for applause.

Am I making sense yet? Hard to tell. ..c::

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

To Asra and others- what Shira said. My boss wasn't that great with the English, but yes, he was trying to convey that it was used for specific things and not as applause. Please forgive me as I am very ill and having a hard time communicating effectively! My boss brought this up because he saw people in an audience doing this at a show and kept shaking his head saying 'they should not do this, this is not right' and later explained that it was for momentous events (ie, war, weddings, etc, as examples), not for applause.

Am I making sense yet? Hard to tell. ..c::

I was once told it was for happy occasions - weddings, circumcisions, the death of the second wife That said, I have seen Middle Easterners use it when a dancer does something particularly good/moving - that is no, not for general applause but rather as in "yes, that bit was great, do more"

So I was trying to think what would be analogous in American culture... And I was thinking of the context in which people whoop or yell "Woo!" - So like when a sports team right before a game will all crowd together, put their hands in, and do that "one, two, three, WHOO!" thing. (That's kind of like going to war, right? ) Or like at a raucus concert if a guitarist breaks into a really awesome guitar solo and everybody yells. Neither of those are situations where applauding would make as much sense.

I don't know, maybe that analogy isn't quite on-target, but what do you guys think, does it capture any of the essence or context of the zaghareet? ..l;,

Of course, we do also whoop and holler along with applause, so maybe that is why we feel the urge to zaghareet when applauding as well?

Antimony, that's pretty much how I see it too. It's the equivalent of "whoo!"

The one thing I do know about it is that every time I've ever done it around ME people, their eyes light up and they look delighted, which suggests to me it's not being used inappropriately. I guess for them it's a pleasant surprise to hear a home sound in the middle of Christchurch.

Antimony- from what I gleaned here that sounds close to right. Maybe the war version is like the army's "hoo ah!" thing they do (of which I know nothing at all, perhaps military people can help?) I think ME people do appreciate hearing it but I am just curious about its appropriate cultural use.

Originally Posted by antimony

So I was trying to think what would be analogous in American culture...

How about whistling? I assume in the US people whistle to show their appreciation in sports/concerts or whatever? Or is that just us strange Brits?..g.: