Thread: Difficulty

Hi everyone,

I recently met with someone looking for group fitness instructors. He was very excited about having bellydancing at his new space. When we met it was clear he was looking for a bellyfit class and I explained the cultural background of the dance, etc. Apparently his goal is not only to have a space for fitness but to attract customers to buy some type of food (like a kind of fitness granola bar). He said I would have to pay him a good part of my profits and I would have to draw from my pool of students. I told him that as I already rented out two different studio spaces I would be attracting my students to the places where I pay rent, etc. I also didn't like the idea of bringing my students down to a place where the real purpose was not fitness but a sort of advertisement for a health bar (not that I told him this).

He asked if I was certified and I said I was not, that there were no certifications for bellydance (aside from CPR and such). Here he looked concerned, as if I were lying to him.

Still, this guy sounded very excited about it.

He didn't contact me for a week and then, after two emails from me, responded that I wasn't 'quite what he was looking for'. One thought I had was that he kind of gave me the once-over and seemed to be a bit disappointed that I wasn't a very thin glam-queen (the reason I think this is because he freely admitted that he was holding these fitness classes to attract people to buy a health bar, and I've seen ads for that kind of thing before).

Now I wonder if he will go find someone else to teach something "like" bellydance, but with another "look" that fits his imagination of what a "real" bellydancer should look like.

I feel annoyed by this. Any thoughts?

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

Hi everyone,

I recently met with someone looking for group fitness instructors.

Here's the key right here -- you're really not what he's looking for because you're not a fitness instructor. He's not looking for dance instructors, and he's not trying to start a dance studio. He's looking for a fitness class with a bellydance theme. Really the ideal instructor for such a thing would be a certified group fitness instructor who's had some bellydance instruction, rather than the other way around.

I am a certified group fitness instructor -- well, I should say I was one, I let my cert expire specifically because I'm not interested in teaching this kind of class.

But I don't think it does us any harm. My health club offers classes with a salsa flavor, with a martial arts flavor, etc. but no one confuses it with actual instruction in those things. They're just looking for a fresh angle for a workout.

ETA: His insurance may require that his instructors hold group fitness certifications, too.

Hi Lauren,

Oh. I see. I am getting my group fitness certification in fall (I work through the campus teaching bellydance and they wanted everyone to get certified for the upcoming semester). He said he had no insurance and that I'd have to use my own. I think my campus boss is more interested in bellydance 'fitness' also...do you have any suggestions for that? I wasn't sure if I should be avoiding such a thing altogether.

Still, I think there's something a bit odd about holding fitness classes specifically to sell a food product...

Yes, that seems odd to me too.

Running a fitness center with no insurance -- surely not! But his insurer may require that his instructors also hold their own policies so he doesn't have to carry their liability on his policy. That's how it works where I teach.

That could have been it. I know he said I'd be an independent contractor. I liked the idea though- teaching outdoors was the thought behind it. I suppose I could teach outdoors on my own, but I'm not sure where I'd do that and wouldn't want people goggling at my students.

What is usually done in a 'bellyfit' class? I would like to know as the group fitness on campus seems like they would be interested. I don't know much about that as I've only done the usual bellydance classes.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

When we met it was clear he was looking for a bellyfit class and I explained the cultural background of the dance, etc.

He said I would have to pay him a good part of my profits and I would have to draw from my pool of students. I told him that as I already rented out two different studio spaces I would be attracting my students to the places where I pay rent, etc.

He asked if I was certified and I said I was not, that there were no certifications for bellydance (aside from CPR and such). Here he looked concerned, as if I were lying to him.

He didn't contact me for a week and then, after two emails from me, responded that I wasn't 'quite what he was looking for'. One thought I had was that he kind of gave me the once-over and seemed to be a bit disappointed that I wasn't a very thin glam-queen (the reason I think this is because he freely admitted that he was holding these fitness classes to attract people to buy a health bar, and I've seen ads for that kind of thing before).

I feel annoyed by this. Any thoughts?

I don't think you should feel annoyed by this. I don't think it has anything to do with what you look like.

He wanted a 'bellyfit' class, you wanted to teach a cultural expression.

He wanted you to pay him a royalty based on how much was collected in student fees, and you didn't want to do that.

He asked if you had a fitness certification (which may be required by his insurer or recommended by his lawyer), and you don't.

It wouldn't surprise me if he looks for another belly dance teacher, but not because of what you look like. I think he wants someone whose class format (fitness) and credentials (fitness certification) and business model (how the money is distributed) are compatible with the way he wants to do business.

...

I think you'd want to have some experience teaching a 'regular' group fitness class before you try to fuse it with bellydance.

What kind of certification are you getting? That program should give you training in designing a group fitness program. Once you have an idea how to set up and execute a safe program that meets fitness goals, and some experience in doing that, I think meshing simple bellydance movement vocabulary and Middle -Eastern music with that will come very naturally.

I think it's like any other kind of fusion -- you need to know both forms well independently before you try to 'fuse' them. But once you know how to teach a fitenss class, and know how to teach a belly dance class, it's very easy to combine the two.

But if you still want guidance, I know that Oreet has a 'Sharqui' bellydance fitness program certification.
SharQui The Bellydance Workout

P.S. But if you're not really interested in teaching a fitness class, I wouldn't do it. (well, I'm not interested, and I don't do it, so there you go!)

I'd hold out and only teach for people whose goals mesh with my own. Otherwise, they won't be happy, you won't be happy, and your students will be confused & disappointed.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

Apparently his goal is not only to have a space for fitness but to attract customers to buy some type of food (like a kind of fitness granola bar). He said I would have to pay him a good part of my profits and I would have to draw from my pool of students.

I had a situation along these lines once. I did a performance/mini-lesson at a woman's health fair, and this guy must have picked up one my cards and gave me a call. On the phone, he said he was running a "Wellness Center", so I went in to meet with him.

Unfortunately, the whole place was totally dedicated to an MLM-style diet plan, with huge bottles of product and giant "before/after" posters that looked suspiciously photshopped to me all over the place. It was obvious after talking to the guy that he had one thing in mind, and that was pushing the so-called miracle product. Not only was he looking for fitness instructors, yoga teachers and massage therapists to draw people into the center, he expected me to try and sell the products at my other locations! And of course, he also wanted me to use the products so I could say I was a satisfied customer myself. ..c::

After about 20 minutes of the spiel, I mumbled something about having another appointment that I needed to get to, and ran like the dogs of hell were at my heels. He kept calling and leaving messages for about a week after, then finally gave up.

Originally Posted by laura 2

I had a situation along these lines once. I did a performance/mini-lesson at a woman's health fair, and this guy must have picked up one my cards and gave me a call. On the phone, he said he was running a "Wellness Center", so I went in to meet with him.

Unfortunately, the whole place was totally dedicated to an MLM-style diet plan, with huge bottles of product and giant "before/after" posters that looked suspiciously photshopped to me all over the place. It was obvious after talking to the guy that he had one thing in mind, and that was pushing the so-called miracle product. Not only was he looking for fitness instructors, yoga teachers and massage therapists to draw people into the center, he expected me to try and sell the products at my other locations! And of course, he also wanted me to use the products so I could say I was a satisfied customer myself. ..c::

After about 20 minutes of the spiel, I mumbled something about having another appointment that I needed to get to, and ran like the dogs of hell were at my heels. He kept calling and leaving messages for about a week after, then finally gave up.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Dude, the minute I walked in I was like, "Oh sh*t!" .w.:

I regret even giving him 20 minutes out of my day, and should have left even sooner. I think I was kinda in shock for the first half, though. It was like being trapped in an informercial - so totally surreal.

Laura- it was very much like what you describe. The reason I refer to my looks is because locally whenever people are promoting a health-food thing like that they specifically request the people they hire to look 'fit and attractive' in thier own idea of what that means. That's why I thought that.

Lauren and others:

I don't know what the certification will be like. I teach regular bellydance through the university but recently my boss (who is a fitness instructor, stuff like Booty Camp and 15 Minute Abs, etc) has gotten all fired up about the idea of Bellyfit. She felt that my classes did not fit their model and said she thought Bellyfit classes would be more up their alley. I have to be group-fitness certified in the fall for this. I love working for the campus and I like this woman a lot, but I feel a bit hesitant about Bellyfit in general.

I do want to teach cultural expression; I am very interested in history and culture (as some of you may have already seen). I also fear that a Bellyfit class might churn out several six week wonders, which wouldn't even be six week wonders as the class wouldn't exactly be a bellydance class (if that makes sense).

I feel a bit strange about this certification thing; I feel rather invalidated because I don't have one and can't tell prospective employers/studios/etc that I have one. What do you all think about certification in general for this dance?

I may be in the minority, but I *love* Bellyfit classes and still go to the one my gym has. After beating myself up all day over how much I hate my technique or choreography or whatever, it's nice to be able to just dance for fun. I get so caught up in being the perfect dancer that I forget that I dance because I love it and I think it's fun.
In my experience, I've found that bellydance fitness classes don't churn out 6 week wonders, and do the opposite. People go because they think it sounds fun, learn that it's actually pretty difficult (but still a blast!), and will often sign up for real dance classes. Of course, it depends on the teacher; an instructor without much dance experience may give the impression that bellydance is easy and encourage students to start performing or teaching, whether intentional or accidental.
You can add some culture & history, but don't go into long lectures. Like, if you're using a pop remix of a classic song, you can give a little bit of background of the song.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

I do want to teach cultural expression; I am very interested in history and culture (as some of you may have already seen). I also fear that a Bellyfit class might churn out several six week wonders, which wouldn't even be six week wonders as the class wouldn't exactly be a bellydance class (if that makes sense).

If a person is inclined to be a 6-week wonder, that person will go do it regardless of whether the class she has tried is a fitness-oriented class or a dance technique-with-culture-and-history class.

I don't think a fitness class prevents you from injecting cultural information. For example, while you're leading a warmup, you can mention the fact that this dance is performed at wedding receptions, circumcisions, casual women's parties where they perform for each other, etc. While you're cooling them down and having them hold a stretch, you can mention that the song they just finished moving to is from Egypt (or Turkey or...) and its title means ___.

I think the key difference between a fitness-focused class and a "dance technique" class is that in a fitness-focused class you structure it to keep them moving constantly, from warmup through active movement through cooldown. The warmup could be a slow breakdown of the moves you'll use later in the active movement section. The active movement could ease in with hip drops, hip bumps, and shimmies, and move on to some Saidi hops or debke-based hopping steps.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

I feel a bit strange about this certification thing; I feel rather invalidated because I don't have one and can't tell prospective employers/studios/etc that I have one. What do you all think about certification in general for this dance?

I think it's valuable for a dance teacher to be educated about exercise physiology, particularly with respect to avoiding injury. A lot of belly dance teachers are not knowledgeable about this, and they cause pain for their students as a result. The process of getting a fitness certification entails acquiring such knowledge. I think that has value.

As for being certified in the dance itself... it's worthless so far as exercise classes at gyms are concerned. It has other benefits (such as helping goal-oriented people set goals and achieve them), but it won't lower your liability insurance or satisfy a gym that wants you to be certified.

IMHO, it is better that a pro bellydancer teaches belly fitness classes then a pro fitness teacher who took half a year of bellydance classes or worse picked up some movements from DVD.
IManotherHO, fitness center customers are usually very concerned about their body, keeping slim, dieting, speed movements, and endurance, they have quite different objectives we have in dance that I agree with the necessity of getting a fitness instructor licence, e.g. for this professional bellydancer teaching there.

I have taken some ballet and latino classes in a local fitness centre in Tokyo, just to get an idea what it is like. The instructors were young and slender but not typical fitness people. Both were concerned with teaching the dance form "the right way", so you could do this kind of good job for bellydance in your location. From explaining that bellydancers don`t need to be really skinny - although this one would be probably difficult, as I can guess the owner wants his staff to be a part of his health food ad - to influencing GP with some ideas about origins of belly dance and acceptability of this dance as an art within society.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

I think it's valuable for a dance teacher to be educated about exercise physiology, particularly with respect to avoiding injury. A lot of belly dance teachers are not knowledgeable about this, and they cause pain for their students as a result. The process of getting a fitness certification entails acquiring such knowledge. I think that has value.

Shira is right, I have heard of such teachers in my location, actually most of them being 6 weeks wonders, not real belly dance teachers.
Brea Morgiane, if you are a dance pro, perform or teach for a long time, you probably already know how to avoid this problem. Good luck with your certification training, and teaching belly dance.

this one would be probably difficult, as I can guess the owner wants his staff to be a part of his health food ad

I think this can be a problem with gyms. Example: I used to work with a girl who was all work *and* all play. She was one of those massive overachievers who'd come to work, do everything perfectly, race off to the gym or to netball or for a bike ride or a run, go out drinking like a maniac, etc etc, rinse repeat the next day. She was in her mid 20s and physically in great shape - trim, muscular, tiny little bit of flesh, probably a NZ size 10 (probably a four to six for you guys) at five seven or so, so athletic looking. Most women would be very pleased indeed to have her figure.

Anyway, she trained and certified as a Spin instructor at her gym, which was great, and they were happy with her. But the gym owners wanted her to take off a few kilos. To which she replied "p*ss off". It was really ridiculous.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

I think this can be a problem with gyms. Example: I used to work with a girl who was all work *and* all play. She was one of those massive overachievers who'd come to work, do everything perfectly, race off to the gym or to netball or for a bike ride or a run, go out drinking like a maniac, etc etc, rinse repeat the next day. She was in her mid 20s and physically in great shape - trim, muscular, tiny little bit of flesh, probably a NZ size 10 (probably a four to six for you guys) at five seven or so, so athletic looking. Most women would be very pleased indeed to have her figure.

Anyway, she trained and certified as a Spin instructor at her gym, which was great, and they were happy with her. But the gym owners wanted her to take off a few kilos. To which she replied "p*ss off". It was really ridiculous.

I have absolutely nothing to add... but I wanted to say, Zumarrad, you tell the best stories!

Thanks everyone. I am looking into it but we'll see what happens. Many of the gyms do seem to want their staff to look like a health food ad, which I don't. I think the idea is they don't want people coming in to see regular old me and think 'fitness? She looks too normal!' or something.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

I think this can be a problem with gyms. Example: I used to work with a girl who was all work *and* all play. She was one of those massive overachievers who'd come to work, do everything perfectly, race off to the gym or to netball or for a bike ride or a run, go out drinking like a maniac, etc etc, rinse repeat the next day.

I was waiting for you to say, "And then she blew up."

She probably had a perfectly neat home as well.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

Thanks everyone. I am looking into it but we'll see what happens. Many of the gyms do seem to want their staff to look like a health food ad, which I don't. I think the idea is they don't want people coming in to see regular old me and think 'fitness? She looks too normal!' or something.

Try the YMCA or YWCA. I worked for the YMCA of San Francisco for 7 years, I was in youth programs and I was a fitness instructor for a short time. Our branch really wanted healthy instructors who weren't stereotypes. They wanted members to feel like "fit and healthy" could look many different ways.

You would need to pursue your fitness instructor certification first and I would really encourage you to do so--I have taken most of my belly dance classes, no offense, from people with little knowledge of physiology and they have taught things that are simply not safe. Your dance instruction will benefit and it will help you get a fitness instructor job, if that's what you want.

Originally Posted by mish_mish

I was waiting for you to say, "And then she blew up."

She probably had a perfectly neat home as well.

But of course.

Brea Your passion is dance. You don't need to teach bellyfit unless you really need the money, or are planninfg to make a career of it - which I know you are not. I don't think yuo would be happy.

...

Originally Posted by songofincense

I have absolutely nothing to add... but I wanted to say, Zumarrad, you tell the best stories!

I agree!