Thread: facial expressions

Hi all,
How do you kill the "porno face" that so many new performers insist on making? Maybe they think it's sexy or showing emotion, but we all know how bad it really looks.
Just saying "Stop making that face" isn't working, especially on younger ladies. I exaggerated it for a student once, and she thought my faces were good! Oh, my! I have some recent pictures of her, so I am hoping that helps.
The beauty of a simple smile is underestimated.
Thanks.

Sandra,

I feel your pain. Pretty much 90% of the under 25s I photograph do that face for their boudoir pictures. It's as if there's nothing else to express. Just sex. That's it. No humour, no twinkle in the eye. Just porn face. It's a real shame. I have to get them laughing to get a shot of a smile out of them sometimes.

As for facial expressions in dancing, anyone who does the porn pout or who gurns like Dina (and they seem to be legion) should have their head replaced with Joyce's in my opinion!

Originally Posted by Freddie

As for facial expressions in dancing, anyone who does the porn pout or who gurns like Dina (and they seem to be legion) should have their head replaced with Joyce's in my opinion!

I agree!!!..g.:

Eh...it's just lack of imagination. This is why older dancers rock.

Give 'em the Joyce face.

Perhaps I'm being dumb, but what exactly is this face?

The "O" face...

Originally Posted by indigostars

Perhaps I'm being dumb, but what exactly is this face?

Say the word "sausage" out loud. It's the shape your face makes on the "sau" bit of the word.

I've never looked in the mirror during an O and I don't think I'd want to based on what some of my partners have looked like during O!!!

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

I've never looked in the mirror during an O and I don't think I'd want to based on what some of my partners have looked like during O!!!

..l;,

I believe it is also the amount of performance and life experience (or lack thereof) that might dictate a facial expression that does not look natural or congruous with the dance (I am avoiding judgmental terms such as "undesireable" b/c obviously to the person making the face, or making a face they think they're making, they think it's desireable!). Anyways...

When starting out performing at a young young age I had the smile plastered to the face so that was decent enough (better than no expression). I hadn't even considered facial expressions until my late 20s, when I saw Ansuya's DVD. I was all "what is with the poop under the nose face?!" Then I started liking it.

Then I started experimenting with facial expressions. Then I got a divorce and started to understand what joy, heartbreak, despair, embarrassment, realization, relief, contentedness means. Then my facial expressions became more natural, more varied, less contrived. My smile got brighter, my poop under the nose face more sincere. ..l;,

It hurts so good!

Show them a video of Kaya.

Originally Posted by Azhia

I believe it is also the amount of performance and life experience (or lack thereof) that might dictate a facial expression that does not look natural or congruous with the dance ...

...Then I started experimenting with facial expressions. Then I got a divorce and started to understand what joy, heartbreak, despair, embarrassment, realization, relief, contentedness means. Then my facial expressions became more natural, more varied, less contrived. My smile got brighter, my poop under the nose face more sincere. ..l;,

Well said! I tell my students that they need to tap into their own life experiences...connect in any way they can to the meaning of the song.

I also feel strongly that more mature, experienced dancers emote better because they are bringing all their life experiences...joys, sorrows, etc....to their dances.

Nisaa

"Sausage"? That's not an orgasm face, that's a blowjob face. Semantics, please, ladies! (Actually there's a picture of me doing that. I am singing the word "khulkhal.")

I like a variety of facial expression, myself, and just try not to think about what I might look like if I am hurting so good, because it's not attractive. However, I truly think dancers need to learn to smile and look pleasant as a default, when they first learn. To my view, NZers are not particularly labile people and we don't approve of showing off, so the big cheesy performance face feels ridiculously difficult and OTT at first - but it's better than what you think is a mysterious closed lipped smile. I look like a serial killer when I do that. Lots of people look as if they're going to the gallows. Once you've got "cheery and having a good time" as a default expression, the rest are going to be less threatening.

Speaking of facial expressions: there is one in tango that we call "tango face", which is a closed-eyed expression of slightly constipated ecstacy.

Perhaps it's time to get these girls to do a little mirror work and explain how porno faces can drastically make a dancer look like she's in heat?

If the song is emotional and makes my feel particularly sad or sensual, my rule of thumb is to just let whatever happens, happen! The only thing I take care to be aware of is limiting it to my eyes and keeping my mouth soft.

Some people WANT to look like they're in heat, though.

Interesting point: Edward Said wrote about how alluring Taheya Carioca's smile was, because her lips were somewhat ajar. Of course, according to Taheya the reason she danced with her mouth a bit open was because she had asthma.

I used to point out this open-mouth face on the posters of films (I recall Pirates of the Caribbean having that). So I think dancers think it's sexy. One of my students also does this suck-a-lemon face that she seems to think is sexy also and will NOT hear that she shouldn't do that.

The point is fun, people, not making porn face. *sigh* any ideas would help here as well!

We aren't to the emotion-expressing stage yet. I would honestly prefer a blank face to the porno face. These are for group numbers, usually pop or drum solos, so smiles are perfect.

I think I might threaten to only put her on the back row until the face changes. That might work!

i'll admit it - I kinda get that face sometimes. Not by choice! I just sometimes get too wrapped in the moment and am really "feeling" the music. I guess I do not go to the extreme of an old fellow dancer I used to dance with. She would get the whole pouty lip thing. I do not go that far but I do "get into the music" sometimes and make some - well - questionable faces.

I have been working on it and it does help to get feedback. I usually watch my videos and critique myself on facial expression. I also have spent some hours in front of the mirror. Oh - and I work on it when I practice.

Getting better ;-)

Go ahead and show her pics and video. Also - explain that you may have to move her because of the "message" she may be sending with those faces. I think you are on the right track ;-)

Originally Posted by SandraDances

We aren't to the emotion-expressing stage yet. I would honestly prefer a blank face to the porno face. These are for group numbers, usually pop or drum solos, so smiles are perfect.

I think I might threaten to only put her on the back row until the face changes. That might work!

Unless she's blatantly ignoring you, I think she deserves your support and guidance here. If she's young, maybe she is just feeling sexy and is forgetting. Why not continue to remind her?

We all have silly little habits that are hard to kick.

Originally Posted by Adishakti

Unless she's blatantly ignoring you, I think she deserves your support and guidance here. If she's young, maybe she is just feeling sexy and is forgetting. Why not continue to remind her?

We all have silly little habits that are hard to kick.

No, I agree with you-I'm not trying to be ugly, but when I can't get a single good picture of my troupe because of her expressions, then something needs to be done.

I will continue to say things to her, but it apparently isn't working.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

"Sausage"? That's not an orgasm face, that's a blowjob face. Semantics, please, ladies!

BWWAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHA! That made my day! ..l;, ..l;, ..l;,

O wow ladies, what a thread. This is something i´ve been working on with students. This has sort of become my speciality, I even tech workshops with these themes (bragging, i know! )

In the very beginning of every class of beginner students i usually ask them what they know about bellydancing and the discussions usually turn into talk about sensuality and the sexuality that they presume is in oriental dance. Then i throw out the suprising bomb. BELLYDANCE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE SEXY! What? I know there is of course alot of sexiness in the dance but instead of emphasize on the sensuality and the sexuality, I remind them of when a woman is dancing or using her feminine parts of her body she is ALL THAT SEXY and there is no need for the eyes to be half closed and the mouth to be half open and pouting. To weigh up to the sexy woman (them, the students) who is using her body to dance the ladies should rather think of the face as cute and joyful, and even a little playful but with a bright smile and eyes wide open.

This kind of rhetorical discussions with them involves listening and let them almost pep each other into the conclusion of how VERY sexy oriental dance is. And the fact that i throw in the bomb of telling them they are all wrong helps them to remember and think about the correct approach. I hope i don´t have to explain that i do this laughing, smiling in a good mood (the discussions are often really funny) so i won´t scare them away.

This helps the ladies from the very beginning and prevents some students from being too busy making those "O"s in the mirror and by that missing out on the class. It also helps them relax and enjoy themselves and feel more comfortable and the technique seems to come more naturally. And with the previous things said they also feel more sexy but in a natural way. We are all sexy yeah, but not on purpose.

With more experienced student i try to work with them on how to blend facial expressions, body expression/language, and feeling with music of various sorts. Also I work with the difference of keeping a smile on while dancing and showing feelings of the dance and that those two things are totally different even though they come from the same source.

I love this topic!

i've had a whole class of students who did the boudoir eyes and O mouth. When they were running through their choreography before a big recital i would make ridiculous faces at them- making them crack up and smile. It also helped them to RELAX about the dance and enjoy it...i got quite nice results on stage although a couple of them still were busy O'ing.

Originally Posted by anyadance

a couple of them still were busy O'ing.

Wow, this could be a good thing in other contexts.....l;,

I'm fine with just about any facial expression - as long as it's natural and honest and not contrived. I can handle an O face if the delivery and context makes sense and feels real.

that said -
that fake sexy face is just no good. maybe you could point out to the dancers doing this that they need to consider their audience. do they really want people - men and women - to picture them performing oral sex? is that really the image they want to project?

and, it needs to be pointed out to them that any time they perform they have an important job to consider: they are ambassadors of our dance. is this how they want to treat our artform? to cheapen it by making it just about sex? any time anybody performs there is a strong chance that somebody watching is seeing bellydance for the first time, so they owe it to their fellow dancers, future dancers, and the strong women before them that kept this dance alive through the centuries so we can have the priveledge and joy of performing it today, to do us proud. they really need to take that seriously.

now, THAT said,
in defense of youth: anybody is capable of giving an honest and pleasant face while performing. I take students through this exercise: relax your face and jaw, allow your mouth to open slightly if you like. imagine warm water gently running off the sides of your tongue and out of your mouth. now, imagine walking alone (as in, nobody to make a fake face for) in a rose garden in full bloom; breathe the scent in deeply through your nose - and notice how you sigh the breath out through your mouth.

take that further, imagine other pleasant scents (a sunny meadow? fresh laundry?), yummy tastes (creme brulee? fresh baked bread?), happy thoughts (snuggling your cat, hugging your best friend). any of these will put a genuine expression on your face. there are times when a sexier face can spontaneously appear (it feels gooooood to dance, after all!) but there are so many others to choose from.

that fake sexy face is just no good. maybe you could point out to the dancers doing this that they need to consider their audience. do they really want people - men and women - to picture them performing oral sex? is that really the image they want to project?

Perhaps my 'Go AWAY!' face isn't so bad after all

Seriously though, I do wonder if the ubiquitous porno expression has something to do with the legions of airbrushed and botoxed celebs that are paraded past us.

Ok, this is an over-simplistic explanation, but it is getting rare these days to see any kind of young face with any character in the mass media. It seems to be either 'bland' or 'porno' and no halfway house.

Originally Posted by ssipes

Show them a video of Kaya.

okay, that just gave me chills and not in a good way!

{{{HUGS}}}

I am sooooo glad that I do not make these faces! My biggest problem is a tensed up jaw (while smiling?). That is something that I am working on. I am trying to keep my lips slightly apart WITHOUT going so far as to make the O face. It is a delicate balance my friends!

Perhaps to eradicate porno-type or any other unsuitable expression, the dancers would benefit from expanding their facial repertoire :)

I start "training faces" in level 1, explaining that the role of the dancer is to make visible the music on her body and that the face dances as well as other body parts. Even though none of my students speak Arabic, they become more sensitive to shifts in musical mood via melody and instrumentation.

Last year we had lots of fun experimenting with various moods and facial expressions in my advanced class. In one session, I wrote various emotions (joy; sadness; surprise, etc.) on pieces of paper, put them in an envelope, and had each student choose one. She then performed an improv before the class to music I had pre-selected for each expression.

Lots of mirror work and practice of various types of smiles, for example, helps, too. Some people are not natural smilers, and they may think they're smiling but from a distance it may look the opposite.

And it's not just the mouth, as you know; the eyes must convey the emotion as well.


Khalida

Reported the whole reiidlynch account.