Thread: Teachers Dancing w/ Students

Originally Posted by Amira_Siddiqah

Lol. We can start a club! Or wear 'I really don't want to be up front here' tattooed on our foreheads :)

I wanna join! lol

I think I've found a fairly effective way to disarm the students' "we can't dance without you" pleas.

First, I'm very encouraging--doing things to help them drill transitions and remember parts...I also give them written choreography notes and tips to remember/practice choreographies, and I try to position someone who knows it well in the front.

Second, I tell them reasons why I think it's generally better, if they can, for student groups to dance themselves without the teacher. (E.g., I like to see the STUDENTS shine in student performances, etc.--the types of things we discussed in this thread.)

Finally...I tell them that I certainly *am* willing to dance with them if that's what they *really* want...but, I say, with my troupe and all my classes, I have dozens of choreographies in my head (the usually have one...maybe two), plus I am accustomed to improvising solo. So...there's no guarantee that *I* won't be the one to screw up, and if I do, I'm more likely to draw other people off because they're used to following me. Heck, I tell them, there are certain group choreos my troupe even prefers to keep me out of because they're afraid I might screw them up...g.: ...This usually gets them motivated to want to learn it well enough to do it alone. ;-)

I know, I'm sneaky. I also deliberately keep the elastic on my teaching zills a little loose so I periodically "have to stop zilling to adjust them"...gives me an excuse to stop zilling so I can hear their zills better without them KNOWING I'm listening to them. They just think I'm futzing with my zills, and they keep playing. If I just stop zilling and they know I'm listening, suddenly at least half the class stops zilling too.

Originally Posted by aamel_MirahAmmal

I think I've found a fairly effective way to disarm the students' "we can't dance without you" pleas.

First, I'm very encouraging--doing things to help them drill transitions and remember parts...I also give them written choreography notes and tips to remember/practice choreographies, and I try to position someone who knows it well in the front.

Second, I tell them reasons why I think it's generally better, if they can, for student groups to dance themselves without the teacher. (E.g., I like to see the STUDENTS shine in student performances, etc.--the types of things we discussed in this thread.)

Finally...I tell them that I certainly *am* willing to dance with them if that's what they *really* want...but, I say, with my troupe and all my classes, I have dozens of choreographies in my head (the usually have one...maybe two), plus I am accustomed to improvising solo. So...there's no guarantee that *I* won't be the one to screw up, and if I do, I'm more likely to draw other people off because they're used to following me. Heck, I tell them, there are certain group choreos my troupe even prefers to keep me out of because they're afraid I might screw them up...g.: ...This usually gets them motivated to want to learn it well enough to do it alone. ;-)

I know, I'm sneaky. I also deliberately keep the elastic on my teaching zills a little loose so I periodically "have to stop zilling to adjust them"...gives me an excuse to stop zilling so I can hear their zills better without them KNOWING I'm listening to them. They just think I'm futzing with my zills, and they keep playing. If I just stop zilling and they know I'm listening, suddenly at least half the class stops zilling too.

OMG, we must have been spawned from the same pool! Are you in my head?? (I can say that -- I'm older.) Unfortunately, they're on to me about the zills elastic.

I thought I'd share my opinion, too. I like hearing everyone's perspective. Mine is a little different.

I try to always mix it up with my students and troupes. For beginners, I give them the choice of performing with or without me. Most of the time they choose without, but when they still feel a little insecure about the dance steps, they might ask for me to dance with them, so they can see me, which means center front. And I don't see anything wrong with that. I try to ensure the staging is even so that everybody is seen from the audience. When I dance with my beginners, I usually choose a less expensive, more plain costume which matches their costumes better, because beginners usually don't spend more than $75-$150 for their first costume at my school.

In my student troupe, in the few performances we've had since inception, I have danced with them, both times center position. Both times they weren't fully comfortable with the choreography (I don't give them simple stuff - it's challenging and interesting choreography). They could see me if they needed to peek over. We also switch lines so everyone gets a chance to be in the front row. The student troupe costumes are simple, flattering and elegant, sometimes the exact same as mine and sometimes my costume is a little different.

At my last concert, I went dancing crazy and performed many times with my intermediate level students, not because I have a huge ego, but becuase I really just wanted to perform all these new choreographies. For these dances, I was back row, on the side. I can see how me as the teacher/director dancing a lot could be interpretted as egotistical. Maybe I'll tone it down next time.

More Below...

For my mid-level troupe, Danza della Luna, I have performed both "as part of the gang" while other troupe members had solo/duet parts to shine that I wasn't a part of. And I have a few dances where I'm "the star." Once again, the choreographies they learn are intricate and interesting (I think anyway) and the troupe members are by no means meant to be "lesser" in these types of dances where I do a solo (they are up dancing, not sitting googling at me, which I agree is strange.) It is my troupe and vision afterall and I'm providing many performance opportunities and a lot of extra valuable training that's specific to being in my troupe. I see it as a trade out: the training and experience one receives in exchange for being a (valued) part of my vision. Sometimes my vision is a solo with lots of motion and energy surrounding it, which means, what people commonly call "back-up dancers" are on stage with me. I don't think my troupe members feel like back up dancers, especially since I always push them to perform solos in my shows and at other local shows, or even to go and compete. They can simutaneously be a part of team where they may or may not be "featured" (I always "feature" my students by listing their names and making sure they feel like a individual whose efforts are fully appreciated) AND they can go off and perform dynamic solos and shine like stars, too. I actually think that it takes a certain kind of special performer who can change roles easily and quickly from the star to the chorus line with no ego involved. That's a more consumate performer to me. The more roles a performer can fill, the more valuable and versatile a performer in my opinion.

For my pro troupe, generally we are all presented as pros, which means the "star" position will rotate and/or a dance is presented with no star role.

If that makes someone "diva" because she gives herself a star role, Oh well! I like the Hungarian troupe video clip with the star dancer. I thought it was interesting and dynamic and the "back up dancers" weren't presented as "lesser" to me.

Anyway, just a different perspective to add to the discussion. Thanks for reading!,r:;

I was at a student class last night for Tribal bellydance, to try it out for the first time. As it was the last night of term, the teacher and 6 beginner students performed a choreography that they had performed at a Hafla last week together, and it was really well done. I had seen the teachers technique throughout the class and was clearly much higher than the students but when dancing WITH them she seemed to manage to "dumb down" her skill I suppose, not sure how else to put it, and she didn't catch my eye at all as being better than the others, and the girls clearly needed her there. The formation they did allowed them all a chance to shine at the front though and I liked that a lot.

So perhaps there is a compromise?

Our dance school is having an "open house" this summer and my beginners are going to perform there. There begged for me to join them, and because it's their very first performance, I agreed...

We're dancing in a circle, so there is no front or brack ;-)
And I will be wearing a student outfit, just like the rest of them.

However, I will have them perform without me next time, 'cause I really want them to be able to do it on their own!

God, I've never danced with my own students. And I only ever danced with my own teacher on a very few occasions. It just feels fundamentally wrong to me. Teacher teaches class a dance, class learns it, teacher eventually stops doing it in the front, turns round and watches class do it while yelling instructions, rearranging, giving feedback etc etc, class and teacher decide together how they will costume, how they will exit etc, class does choreo, everybody claps. That's what you DO.

On the rare occasions I've jumped in with students because someone is sick or something and a body is needed *in class*, you can tell which one is me, the choreographer, because I'm the one doing it wrong.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

you can tell which one is me, the choreographer, because I'm the one doing it wrong.

hahahahahahaha!! True that!..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,

Originally Posted by zumarrad
you can tell which one is me, the choreographer, because I'm the one doing it wrong.

Too true!

I think my eye wanders around more freely to the other dancers when the central dancer/teacher has the same costume. Although the other dance performance with the teacher in a different color with special accents was lovely and just fine to watch too... I felt like I couldn't "see" the others... my eyes were stuck on her. Sometimes the students tell me they want such a thing to happen (for people not to watch them!) but one of my goals is to help them overcome that fear!
I love belly dancing.. watching it is nearly as much a joy as performing. *sigh*!

Originally Posted by DancingLale

I was at a student class last night for Tribal bellydance, to try it out for the first time. As it was the last night of term, the teacher and 6 beginner students performed a choreography that they had performed at a Hafla last week together, and it was really well done. I had seen the teachers technique throughout the class and was clearly much higher than the students but when dancing WITH them she seemed to manage to "dumb down" her skill I suppose, not sure how else to put it, and she didn't catch my eye at all as being better than the others, and the girls clearly needed her there. The formation they did allowed them all a chance to shine at the front though and I liked that a lot.

So perhaps there is a compromise?

As a side note: one principal of tribal--in my group anyway--is that if one member can't do a move well, we don't use that move as a group in performance until she can. That's not to say that dancers can't "bust a move" when they are dancing solo or in duets or trios in front of the crescent. One goal of tribal is to look very synchronized, so if someone can't do, say, 4 spins in a section of music, we'll do 2 or 3. Of course, this is a lesser issue in the intermediate/advanced group, but it was something our teacher emphasized when I was in the beginner class, and we were preparing for our student recital. (We didn't perform elsewhere as beginners.)

Originally Posted by donnadiva

OMG, we must have been spawned from the same pool! Are you in my head?? (I can say that -- I'm older.) Unfortunately, they're on to me about the zills elastic.

..l;,..l;,..l;,
Oh, that's fantastic! And yeah, I could see us having spawned from the same pool all right!

It really is too bad when the students start to catch on, though. One of my intermediate students presented me with a package of new elastic recently. I wound up having to divulge my secret to her when, by the next week, I hadn't changed my elastic.

Originally Posted by aamel_MirahAmmal

One of my intermediate students presented me with a package of new elastic recently. I wound up having to divulge my secret to her when, by the next week, I hadn't changed my elastic.

Maybe she's on Bhuz!

Hmmm, I have mixed feelings about this...
I think it fine that an instructor perform with their students - but have been discussing at some length with all the instructors at the studio I own about the position/role of the instructor in performances.

One of the things that we have found is that if an instructor is front and center in the routine, students (even advanced ones) tend to follow or mimic rather than dance. Using the instructor as a kind of crutch or mirror. Another thing I have found, is that the instructor usually does outperform or outshine their students by the sheer fact that they have more experience/ability.

Then there is always the instructor, who (whether intential or not) happens to add these little extra moves or embellishments that the rest of the group does not - making them stand out just that little bit more than they already do. This is very unfair to her fellow performers. (I happen to have one of those instructors at my studio)