Thread: Teachers Dancing w/ Students

Hey Ladies,

I was watching dance videos on YouTube, and a question came to mind. I saw a video where a woman who was obviously the teacher was dancing with her students at some sort of recital. It was one of those "occasionally pause while the teacher solos and then resume dancing" type routines we've all seen.

Now, when I danced in Middle and High School, the director would sometimes dance with the older members of the troupe and also gave herself a solo at every annual recital. I remember that my mother HATED it. Her reasoning was that the students and troupe members worked hard all year to perfect their routines, and that the director didn't need to detract from them. Mom felt that the director should just teach kids and run the business without bringing the focus towards herself.

Now, I think most of us can agree that when a belly troupe leader/director/founder dancers with her own troupe, that's natural, normal, and expected. Also the leader/director normally has a solo somewhere in the program, and this is also expected and normal.

But how do you ladies feel when a teacher dances with a lower-level class that she's teaching at a formal performance or recital? Do you think she should stick with the troupe/solo performances or is OK to formally perform with your students? Is their a certain way to go about it? What should be avoided?

Not trying to be inflammatory - I'm just genuinely curious.

I don't like it. It makes the novice dancers look bad and the teacher stand out like a sore thumb. My teacher was extremely opposed to it, and I agree.

Quite apart from anything else, if you have the teacher dancing with the group, she generally doesn't get to stand up front and watch what they're doing, and often it's terribly, terribly messy, and would have been less so if Madame X hadn't been swanning around with her back to the dancers in the front. Also, a student performance is THEIR time to shine, not yours.

I've never performed with my students. I did bring a costume (like what the students were wearing) to a performance- because it was likely that a student wouldn't be there, which would mess up the blocking badly. But she was there, so I didn't have to dance with them. I understand if a student backs out last minute and it would mess up the others to have a hole there (if there's a lot of blocking or something) to have the teacher step in. But I really don't like it when a teacher puts herself into the performance. That's their time, not mine, and that's how it should be, IMHO.

Well I hate it and I would never dance with my students, We do a show here about 2 times a year, I call it a student show but I do a few solos as well becuse it very rare in Oki Japan to get good stage time. So this show ends up being for EVERYONE, I even invite other local teachers to dance. Every one gets their own time, I get my solo time and the students get there group time. You can tell every one is of the same level when each group is on stage. It is a great show and every one ends up pretty happy.

hmm. guess I'll be the first to step up and say I think it's ok - if it's done a certain way.

around here most teachers perform along with their students. the general feeling is of them being up there to help everybody not feel so nervous, and for the comraderie of dancing together. it's also nice to have somebody near the front that you can watch in case you're about to forget a step. :)

my philosophy with student choreographies is that I would never teach them something that I personally wouldn't dance myself. I haaaate it when a teacher puts their students up to do a totally stupid dance that they wouldn't be caught dead performing. the first troupe I danced with, the teacher/director always performed with us, and every dance (that didn't depend on group formations and different parts) was suitable to perform as a solo, and I felt like she really respected us by giving us nice stuff to perform.

if I went to a student recital, I'd certainly hope to see the teacher perform - you need a break from the beginner and amateur level stuff. ;) it's also fun as a student to show off your teacher to your friends and family, to let them know what it is you're hoping to grow up to be someday. :)

it IS super annoying when the teacher is up there totally oblivious to her students and is dancing way over them as they struggle to keep up. makes everybody look bad. and I don't like the students-as-backup-dancers-while-I-show-off business.

Originally Posted by annwyn

We do a show here about 2 times a year, I call it a student show but I do a few solos as well becuse it very rare in Oki Japan to get good stage time. So this show ends up being for EVERYONE, I even invite other local teachers to dance. Every one gets their own time, I get my solo time and the students get there group time. You can tell every one is of the same level when each group is on stage. It is a great show and every one ends up pretty happy.

That sounds like a good deal for all involved (and fun to boot)! I like when my teachers solo. It's nice to see them dance outside of a class setting.

At the first dance school where i danced I never danced with my students, I twice filled up the time cause the owners of the school couldnt stand the stage empty during music intro so I did a 45 seconds once double veil , once sword) to the music intro but in 2 years that was it.
I noticed that all the other teachers except one danced with their students, both Salsa teachers, dancehall, b-boys, krumping, and 3 of the 4 hip hop teachers performed in the numbers either as a soloist or took the place of a student who couldnt perform with the group at the show.
The crowd loved it, and a couple times even asked for certain hip hop teachers to perform at the end.

When I started teaching at another school, the director strongly encouraged me to perform with my students , cause all the different african dance teachers and all percussion teachers and singing teachers performed with their groups.
The first shw I let my begginers dance alone, then performed with another smaller group who was more advanced and I placed myself in the back.

Last show I performed with the begginers in the back and filled a 30 seconds solo on a Samai ( that was way too hard for students in their first semester) that gave them time to get rid of their veils and I went in the back again and they went in the front when the Samai was finished. I let group 2 perform on their own.

This show my begginers insisted I dance wit them cause the show came 3 weeks early, I started my semester late cause i was in Egypt, so they said it would reassure them to have me with them. I am really happy, for once , of the choreography I did for this begginers group so I am more than happy to d it with them.
I try to tone down my costume a bit so i blend in with them ( i wore a velvet skirt +bedlah sincce I lended them all velvet costumes), but I dont feel too bad , cause the teachers from Ghana , Burkina Faso and mali wear their teir own beautiful traditional dresses when they perform and their students have just a short pareo. The gumboots teacher often wears a different colour t-shirt than all the students.

I actually appeciate when I see my hip hop and krumping teachers dance , shows you another level and as long as they are not the center of attention the whole time it still puts the students in the front I see nothing wrong with it.

Tedi and I do not perform with our student performing group at the shows and recitals we produce. We feel it is important for them to form a cohesive group on their own and be able to dance without us right next to them as a crutch. When the teacher dances with the students, it is very difficult for the students to not look at her the whole time. They get programmed to know the choreography only while watching the teacher do it; they never get it in their head. We also feel it would detract from their efforts to have a much more experienced dancer (possibly the one who choreographed the piece) in stark comparison. Also, if we had to do their dances, it would detract from our job, which is to teach them, watch them, coach them, and polish them for each performance.

They also do not get "hand me down" choreographies from our performing troupe, we choreograph pieces just for them. They have different costumes from us. We want them to have their own group identity.

I'm of both camps.
I don't think the teacher should perform and outshine the group - on purpose.
If they've been taught to be able to perform on their own - then they certainly should.

On the other hand - I had a group this past year who were NOT going to do the stage show on their own. They wanted everyone to be in the dance so my costuming blended with theirs. If you don't know who the instructor is... then you shouldn't be able to really tell. It gave them a confidence boost - and as a very close group, it was a part of the sisterhood of dancing together.

At student shows around here - their numbers are interspersed with local troupes, soloists, professionals, AND the instructors. The idea is showcase many different styles and levels of mid-eastern dance and to give the audience (usually new to this style) an appreciation of how and what can be done. The audience enjoys the opportunity to see what "real" dancers look like... and the students always want to see their teachers on stage.

I remember my very first recital (many many moons ago).
Watching and thinking... I want to dance like that!

If you don't know who the instructor is... then you shouldn't be able to really tell.

Oh, but so often you really can, and it's not because the instructor is doing anything different, they're just way, way more skilful at it.

Reminds me of when my teacher kicked me out of level 3 because I was intimidating the noobs. To this day I can't see that I'm that good, but, yeah. Of course she did let me come back when there was no more level 4!

I agree that i can always tell who who the teachers are but it doesnt matter to me , when i watch the gumboots teacher or the teacher from Mali dance, it is a 30 seconds-1 minute of pure pleasure. I still appreciate the full dance number cause the students are not just there for decor , they do everything except for the few seconds their teachers shows something with the energy of an experienced dancer.
I can assume that if i do the same with one of my classes it wont disturb the audience more than for the other groups at the same show.
If all teachers did a 3 minute solo the show would be at least 20 minutes longer and that would be too much, I much rather see them incorporated in the number.
I am totally aware i will be a crutch for my students at the show saturday , but they needed it or didnt do the show cause it wasnt fair they only had 6 weeks instead of 12 to prepare so having me with them will be a big help that will give them reassurance.

If the students are there just as a backdrop to their teacher or troupe director then i dont like it and it is disrespectful to the students who have worked very hard to prepare for the show, it just depends how it is done.

I will occasionally perform with my advanced students, but not with my beginners. I think that a teacher performing with beginners definitely sticks out like a sore thumb and steals the students' thunder. With my advanced students, I generally only dance with them if I need an extra body in a number OR if they need me to "anchor" a choreography. When I do dance with them, I try to stage the dances so that I don't stick out very noticeably.

Nisaa

I don't know about other dance forms so much as from my own experience with Highland Dance, but it was always considered poor taste to dance with your students. The teacher was there to make sure everything ran smoothly and to cheer her students on. It's kind of hard to get past this... I lived it for 14yrs!

So, no... in most cases, I don't think dancing with your students is a respectful thing to do to them. People will be watching the teacher more, and it feels too much like the starlet and backup dancers: I don't like it.

Not so sure how I feel about advanced dancers/troupes and the teacher/troupe leader... I think it's okay for the most part, but sometimes it's nice to sit back and let them have the limelight. They do a great job up there. I feel more useful off stage making sure the music is cued properly, that their costumes are in order, stage is ready, etc, etc... That said, I do really enjoy dancing with them... still undecided and planning to take each venue as it comes.

In ballet and Jazzz, depending on the level, many teachers perform with their students.

that having been said, I don't mind when a teacher dances with her students to help their confidence as long as it doesn't look like Princess Lotus Blossom and her chiorettes! there is one teacher here who, every time I see her with her students, the students are in $40 velvet halters and hips scarves and she is wearing $700 Bedlah! makes me crazy!

I do like to see the teacher perform on her own, though. Because I think it is important that the audience sees that the teacher can perform as well as teach dancers. It is a selling point.

{{{HUGS}}

I am having a real dilemma now, I feel I am not going to sleep well until Saturday night's show....( should I start a new tread ?)
please tell me your opinion,

like I said in my previous post the director of the school told me she loves to have the teachers dance along with the students when she saw I was not with them at the rehearsal for the first show I did at their school ( cause the first school I ws teaching at i didnt perform wit my students).
so seeing that the 5 percussion teachers, the choir leader and the 8 other dance teachers ( and troupe choreogrphers) all danced along with their groups i went along with the idea and would dance along with one of my 3 groups. I dont put myself dead center , I usually choose a back corner just like I prefer to be when I perform as a student in my hip hop class.

so this Semester i began my classes 3 weeks late cause i was in Egypt , and the show came 3 weeks before the end of the semester because other Saturdays wouldve fallen on long week0end ( so not convenient for anyone) .
bottom of the line my students only had 6 weeks to learn their choreography + I have 2 hearing impaired students who are willing to do the show if i dance somewhere were they can see me, one of them doesnt hear anything but feels vibration, one hears parts of the music only but she loses some parts depending wich instrument is dominant .
the darbuka player is out of the country at the moment so he cant help them with the vibration.
I am already quite impressed at my 2 hearing impaired students for learning so well, and i dont want to let them down by not dancing at their side, and the other students ( all begginers) dont feel they can lead them enough cause we were in a time crunch....
I really feel bad now, I dont want to be in poor taste ......cr.:

Personaly i never felt my teacher took anything away when he was dancing with us or doing a small solo, just as didnt mind when i watched all the other dance teachers do it at both school....but now i just feel confused

Originally Posted by palmier

I really feel bad now, I dont want to be in pour taste ......cr.:

Personaly i never felt my teacher took anything away when he was dancing with us or doing a small solo, just as didnt mind when i watched all the other dance teachers do it at both school....but now i just feel confused

You are NOT doing anything in poor taste! It sounds to me like you are looking out for your students. You need to trust your gut. Not everybody is going to agree on this issue, so just do what is right for your students...and it sounds to me like you dancing with them is what they need.

Nisaa

We'd have a pretty empty stage at our student recitals if we did not dance along with our beginners.

I see the point that's been made that the students are relying too much on the teacher, but this doesn't last forever and the ones who are truly interested in performing are encouraged to move past it.

I feel a teacher *can* perform successfully with the students, I've seen teachers take on this role of just being there on stage with the students, they are obviously there to support the students and not to outshine them. They wear the same outfit and there's communication between all the dancers on stage, not just students staring at the teacher to see what the next move is. The students feel more confident and are happy their teacher is there with them. Not sure if I'm explaining well but it creates a kind of group stage presence that reflects the happy student/teacher relationship and the fun that they have been having in class that they now get to share with the audience.

I've also seen the opposite where the teacher dances out the front as if she's doing a solo, wearing her obviously pro cossie adding all sorts of fabulous little extras to make sure she stands out.

For my own group - non-beginner performers so I get them to perform on their own as much as possible. If I'm with them, it's always in a matching costume and preferably at the back :-)

I don't mind when teachers dance with their students as long as the students are really given the chance to shine.

Originally Posted by palmier

I really feel bad now, I dont want to be in pour taste ......cr.:

Well, if other teachers in the area do it... You'd be the norm, right? I wouldn't worry about it too much. It'd be MUCH worse to tell them you're dancing with them, and then back out.

Sleep easy....

Originally Posted by nisaasaintlouis

Not everybody is going to agree on this issue, so just do what is right for your students...and it sounds to me like you dancing with them is what they need.

Nisaa

Ditto...

I've done both.

I had one set of students perform at a hafla and even though 2 of the 4 dancing backed out last minute, the other 2 went on alone and did a fabulous job! Then there was another group I was teaching a choreography to and they refused to perform it without me up there with them (they also did wonderful). :)

In both cases it was well received by the audience and I feel as long as you make sure that the focus is on the students either way, it's purely a personal choice that needs to be made based on the situation.

Originally Posted by Adishakti

Well, if other teachers in the area do it... You'd be the norm, right? I wouldn't worry about it too much. It'd be MUCH worse to tell them you're dancing with them, and then back out.

Sleep easy....

If i would sit down I would be the only teacher not performing that night. Only a teacher out of the country has not performed with his students at that school in the 3 shows i did since starting with them.

so i guess i will perform with my begginers , cause they are expecting me to. and I dance along with the troupe ( same as the pro gumboots troupe and african dance troupe), cause is it a mini-troupe at this point, I had to restart it, but they all have pro costumes so I really dont stand out since we all do the same steps, I had chosen not to do any solos with either groups.
my intermediates are fine on their own so I had decided not to dance with that group.
I was starting to feel like a bad bad person......c:: I am happy this tread came up .

Originally Posted by palmier

If i would sit down I would be the only teacher not performing that night. Only a teacher out of the country has not performed with his students at that school in the 3 shows i did since starting with them.

so i guess i will perform with my begginers , cause they are expecting me to. and I dance along with the troupe ( same as the pro gumboots troupe and african dance troupe), cause is it a mini-troupe at this point, I had to restart it, but they all have pro costumes so I really dont stand out since we all do the same steps, I had chosen not to do any solos with either groups.
my intermediates are fine on their own so I had decided not to dance with that group.
I was starting to feel like a bad bad person......c:: I am happy this tread came up .

Oh heavens, no. What I know of you, Elise... is very professional and sweet!

I hope nobody on the thread here feels badly about past or present decisions on the matter. It's a completely personal decision, and so long as a teacher is not using her students as backup dancers to feed her ego, I think it's wise to consider each situation as it arises. Seems to me you have their best interest at heart and that's what matters most.

I like the idea of dancing with them more than "for" them. I was taken aback at one recent showcase (on a stage) where more than one teacher/director danced a full solo while her troupe/students sat on the floor and gazed at her in dewy eyed admiration. I asked my troupe to do this...just to what they would say, and they rolled around on the floor holding their bellies for 5 minutes. Humbeling...

Originally Posted by anala

I like the idea of dancing with them more than "for" them. I was taken aback at one recent showcase (on a stage) where more than one teacher/director danced a full solo while her troupe/students sat on the floor and gazed at her in dewy eyed admiration. I asked my troupe to do this...just to what they would say, and they rolled around on the floor holding their bellies for 5 minutes. Humbeling...

Like this Anala?

Sorry, nothing to add; I just love that smilie...



Rach

I think there is an appropriate time for an instructor to dance with students. I've had and done both. I understand as a kid, parents pay money for instruction - that is where a student MUST shine. The rules changes when the experience level of the dancers rise.
- I've had instructors dance with the group, but take a lesser role
-does a solo so the group can do a costume change, transition, part of a song breakdown...
- danced with us front and center to a new choreography just learned within the last few weeks, yet does not outshine the group so a level of cohesiveness is mantained with the troupe...
- just dance with the group altogether because of the professional level of all dancers involved
Each of these instructors I had strictly made sure that the group would not use her as a crutch or guide - because one day she will not perform with us and we need to hold our own...

Now (from what I have seen) I do have issues with instructors that dance with group and....
-they outshine the other dancers (keeps on dancing while others struggle)
-gives herself a five minuet solo in a nine minuet set
- dances a couple of solos with the beginning troupe, then a couple more in her intermediate troupe, another in her advance troupe, AND a 12 minuet feature afterwards... (GAAAAG me with forks....)
- places herself way front and center with a better costume or obvious contrasting costume to make her stand out
- names the group "sally and the haremettes" (again, an all about her moment)
- tells her student troupe she wants them to be on their own because if - she dances with them, people will automatically know who's the pro... (those poor gals, what a let down...)
- hands down old choreography, and places her other advance students (or herself) to fill in so the newbies don't look bad (I really didn't get this practice)

I really really think the instructor needs to use good judgement when, where, and how much to dance with a troupe and also to keep in mind the cohesiveness of the group as a whole.

I don't as a rule but was "forced" by the class on one occasion when one girl was ill and the troupe was down to 13! They all had little duets or solos. I didn't ,just stayed in the chorus each time. It's a bad idea me doing it anyway..I'm the first to forget the choreo!
I do hate the "teacher" out in front as I witnessed at our last hafla. it looked like a warm up and of course who did you watch?.mmmmmm
If a teacher properly integrateswith the class and I know a couple of teachers who do it because they operate as troupes, it can work.
And many students like it, they feel secure but of course...that leads to constant sneaky glances at teacher especially if she is doing a "Diana Ross and the Supremes".
It's much more preferable to let them get out there on their own but I wouldn't catagorically say no .

I just had a student show last weekend. Of the 6 or 7 troupe numbers, I danced in 2 of them. Both times center back. One dance was a zill number and they needed a little help. The other was our show finale. They had been suggesting that I dance that with them for a while, and I was so glad I did! I was fun! I will dance in that one from now on, but never in the front.

But I used to never dance with them. It's not about me, it's about them. But now I think it's ok to help if I am in the back. But I won't do it too often because it's important to be able to critique them before the show as was pointed out by someone else. Besides, I want to see the show!!!

interesting discussion...

what do you guys think of this performance then?
the teacher is in the center-front, in contrasting costume, soloing a little bit time to time and doing all these nice extras... but I just think it's brilliant choreo and great performance!!!!!
do you really think it would be better if she blended in?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Sdix2sua0]YouTube - Hastánc -- Bellydance -- Ya Amar Dance Group[/ame]

here is another beautiful performance by a group where teacher is blended in (at least with matching costume and choreography). But you can still tell who's the teacher obviously...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEEUDq2e2e0]YouTube - New video by Evgenia Kopteva[/ame]