Thread: back bends ala rachel brice...can you??

who can do them???

They sure look amazing but also very difficult!

They scare me. Wouldn't attempt 'em unless I had any particular urge to donate to the cause of buying my chiropractor a new yacht.

I'm guessing backbends of this nature (especially the ones followed by a drop) require serious training in yoga or gymnastics and a very clean bill of lumbar health. If you really want to learn this type of backbend, I would train carefully under a yoga instructor or a trusted dance teacher whose strong point is backbends. You definitely want somebody to spot you, so as to avoid herniated disks and other unpleasant injuries that could arise.

I've found that a beautifully executed regular backbend with lovely arms is just as impressive to audiences as anything flashier. If you can't do Rachel's killer tribal-style backbends, don't stress and don't injure your spine in the process. She sure is amazing to watch, though!

Not me, that's for sure!

I agree with SatinWorship, a dancer would need intense training with a highly trained dance/gymnastics/yoga instructor who could guide the dancer through the proper strength and flexibility excercises to do that kind of deep bending and stretching.

Me, I'll stick with less bend and more core stregthening!

dont worry i do not intend on trying these out but its fun to watch others do it!! Come on girls I cant even belly roll haha

I can do something very similar to them : Brea Morgaine - Home Page. However, I am a bit worried about the long-term health risks.

I love, love, LOVE Rachel's backbends!!

But I couldn't do one in a million years.

I went to Rachel Brice's workshop last year & she told us that her yoga instructor helped her to practice this move by holding her. She said she grabbed a fist full of the front of her shirt and held her all the way down until she could do it herself. She did say it took a lot of practice & strength building.

Well I could try but you'll have to winch me back up! Good job I'm more of your beledi woman really!

Only in my next life.

I have done laybacks in the past, albeit nowhere near as deep at the famous RB ones (or the original, by Carolena Nericcio and Jill Parker long ago) - they can be fun in the right moment.

But, by and large, I enjoy seeing this move done sparingly; it seems that too many fusion dancers copy it, and it loses its power that way.

Originally Posted by steffib

I have done laybacks in the past, albeit nowhere near as deep at the famous RB ones (or the original, by Carolena Nericcio and Jill Parker long ago) - they can be fun in the right moment.

But, by and large, I enjoy seeing this move done sparingly; it seems that too many fusion dancers copy it, and it loses its power that way.

AGREED....RB is fantastic but there are soooo many wanabees who aren't!

I have learnt to respect those who go their own way into fusion such as the UK's Dawn O Brien. What she does is not always my cup of tea bur RESPECT to her for ploughing her own furrow and being innovative instead of just slavishly following RB. I saw some really good fusion acts at Raqs B bt the best had obviously worked hard at being themselves.

Even RB says that she doesn't do that many deep back bends anymore because of long term consequences.

I do back bends, although not as deep. I also do modified Turkish Drops. These I learned in Jazz class. Now to get my core strength back to the point that I can lift myself back to my feet from the kneeling position. that is a great goal!

{{{HUGS}}}

You couldn't pay me to learn that move. Its unnatural and side show looking, and really really dangerous and damaging to your back.

I always wondered about RB's bends like that. Does one's natural flexability have anything to do with it? I remember in my gymnastics classes (in the mesozoic era) and I could never do a back bend no matter how much I practiced. I don't think I am flexible that way. I don't believe I ever could be. Same with short hamstrings....

I like backbends like the 'camel' in yoga, where you can start off super gentle and very slowly sink into them with support. However, I cannot do anything other than the most moderate of backbends in dancing: what I struggle with most is coming out of them in a controlled, graceful and dancer-ish way, as opposed to looking like someone has clocked me on the head and I've no idea what I'm doing.

I like them when others do them well (which is something I very rarely see).

Its OK I really have no intention on doing these I like the other type of back bends better anyway because they look nicer in my opinion.
I have noticed soooooooo many RB wannabes online its weird!!

I have noticed soooooooo many RB wannabes online its weird!!

That, m'dear is only the tip of the iceberg. I am still recovering from the overwhelming numbers at Raqs B (and apparently there were fewer than in previous years). Don't get me wrong, I totally respect MS Brice and her achievements in the dance, I'm just perpetually stunned by the hoardes of slavish imitators.

Clearly I'm missing something...

I like backbends where the whole spine arches softly, rather than a 90 degree bend of the lower back. They are still difficult, require strength, but look just as amazing to me and much more ergonomic.

Originally Posted by HOOKEDNOVICE

I always wondered about RB's bends like that. Does one's natural flexability have anything to do with it? I remember in my gymnastics classes (in the mesozoic era) and I could never do a back bend no matter how much I practiced. I don't think I am flexible that way. I don't believe I ever could be. Same with short hamstrings....

You betcha that natural flexibility comes into play here. People only have so much space between certain bones and everyone's maximum range of motion (ROM) will be different, based partially on tightness of muscles, ligaments, tendons, and partially on at what point you can't stretch any further because your bones and other tissues are jamming together and preventing any more movement.

I personally am naturally very flexible in my lower back and can do - if I say so myself - some very lovely and deep laybacks and backbends! What was more difficult was developing the ability to get out of the position without looking like a knob, and that involves working up really good core strength, particularly with the abs and upper thighs (upper thighs seem to come more into play with floorwork). Having good ab strength is also essential to doing the backbends safely, as engaging them will give better control of the backbend, letting you arch without hurting your back.

I'd love to be able to train into that slow, sustained bend-and-droptofloor move that she does, as I like the theatricality of the movement. Alas, my natural bendyness in my back does NOT extend to my toes. That may sound odd, but I've got so little space between the bones surrounding my big toe joint that I can't get my feet into the position needed to go into a full fold from a standing position. It's bone-on-bone contact, and in order to to that RB drop or a turkish drop I'll just have to figure out an alternate foot position that would either involve rolling onto the sides of the feet or over the tops onto the knuckles. Both options strike me as being painful and potentially rather dangerous, so I'm not in a big rush to learn how to do them. But I digress...

Flexible AND strong as an ox.
Yoga and strength training, lots of ab and back work.
Otherwise you're asking for injury.

Tee hee! There is a big secret to that back bend but I'm not telling! It took me years of lessons in Turkey before I figured it out... The secret is in the feet. :)

Do you need double-hinged feet like those characters Don Martin drew in the old Mad Magazine? Probably dating myself here... but I gotta date somebody! ..l;, ..l;, ..l;,

Shivaun! Tell us the secret! It's not like we'll be able to do it anyway!

I learned the RB backbend from Ansuya when she was teaching on the first BDSS tour. She was really happy b/c RB has just taught it to her and wanted to share it with everyone. I took notes and worked on it - it took me a long time to build the strength for it, but I can and do use the techniques in my regular backbends now. (I have a couple of backbend pics in my gallery I think)

The main thing that Ansuya showed that was different from the way I had always done backbends before was (when in deeper than normal bend with knees) to *super* tuck your pelvis as far as you possibly could which put it more in alignment for a 90 degree look to the layback without as much stress on the lower back muscles. However - a couple of cautions: 1. It feels bizarre the first few times you do it - just think of it as aligning your pelvis with where you want to end up and 2. It requires a huge amount of abdominal and thigh strength.

The last step to make it look truly phenomenal is to lift and pull back on your shoulder muscles to give the appearance of a stronger arch.

Honestly, when done correctly it puts less stress on my back than a normal backbend....but lots more stress on my abs and thighs.

Hopes that helps! I haven't learned it directly from RB, but Ansuya walked us through is and demonstrated a great version. :) Works for me, anyway!

[QUOTE=halftruths;199430]You betcha that natural flexibility comes into play here. People only have so much space between certain bones and everyone's maximum range of motion (ROM) will be different, based partially on tightness of muscles, ligaments, tendons, and partially on at what point you can't stretch any further because your bones and other tissues are jamming together and preventing any more movement.

I'd love to be able to train into that slow, sustained bend-and-droptofloor QUOTE]

Thanks for the info. I guess I would have to remove a few vertabrae or whatever to be able to do it. sigh.

Originally Posted by Shivaun

Tee hee! There is a big secret to that back bend but I'm not telling! It took me years of lessons in Turkey before I figured it out... The secret is in the feet. :)

Oh you meanie!! ..l;,

I do a Dinaesque backband, with one leg outstretched. The stronger my core muscles have gotten (from my gym workouts), the further down I can go. I think a strong core, as well as flexibility, is key. Also, another dancer I know bends her knees slightly when doing a backbend, which gives the illusion of going down further than with straight legs. I do my backbend sparingly, so I don't do any kind of damage. When I have a three or four show night, I only do one in one show.

Originally Posted by Shivaun

Tee hee! There is a big secret to that back bend but I'm not telling! It took me years of lessons in Turkey before I figured it out... The secret is in the feet. :)

Feet, eh?
Dunno if this is your secret, but a breakdancer I used to know was able to do insane-looking backbends simply by standing in releve, rather than flat foot, then deeply bending his knees. Still requires tons of leg and ab strength, but because most of the actual bend was in his legs, it was pretty back-friendly and looked amazing. Same reason why backbends are much easier in heels.

Does anyone know if there are any dvd's that teach how to do them? I haven't found any....

Originally Posted by HOOKEDNOVICE

Thanks for the info. I guess I would have to remove a few vertabrae or whatever to be able to do it. sigh.

Don't be discouraged! As other people have posted, there are ways of making backbends look deeper without actually having an absurd range of motion between your joints. Plus, there's a very distinct difference between not being able to go deeper due to bone-on-bone stoppage and not going deeper because the muscles need more stretching. Reaching your furthest stretch point will feel very different if it's a joint space thing (namely that you can feel it in or around the joint) versus a muscle tension thing (which you'll feel in the muscles running along the opposing side, in this case primarily your abs).

Personally, I wish that I had more space around my toe knuckles and a better turn-out (darn hips - I've got next to nothing in terms of turn-out range!). It would make a number of moves much easier.