Thread: cover your belly! and don't sit on his lap!

I had my first student show yesterday. It went amazingly well. The dances were great. I asked only 2 things of them offstage. One was cover your belly and the other was not to drink.

I ran around all show asking and reasking one of my students to cover herself. She did and then she'd uncover again. Several times before the show I talked to them about this stuff and it was in 3 emails.

Another student covered herself and then went and sat on her male friend's lap and then cuddled him right until it was time to dance. I didn't say anything at the time because I felt I was overstepping my boundaries.

I want to talk to them about this because I feel it was inappropriate. Am I way off? How do I phrase this so it doesn't come off as offensive?

I feel your pain! I would say that if it's a student show in a hafla-type setting, ie full of friends and family and other dancers, you can afford a degree of leniency. BUT, I would also try and weave a discussion of "good public behaviour" into class and reiterate stronger rules next time you have a show if it's going to take place in a more public setting.

I think if you frame it as "it's OK to do X and Y when it's your own private party or a class hafla that's effectively closed, but if you were a professional performer, these are the rules of behaviour you would be expected to display." I don't know how Korean students feel about it, but most NZers would take that on board as a desirable set of rules to model themselves on. And then, you can talk about how "in this show we need to behave like professionals so our audience respects what we're doing" or "this is a hafla so we can be more informal".

The constantly uncovering student and the canoodler would have been frustrating. It could be that if things don't "sink in" after class talk etc you might need to speak to the latter, especially, one on one. Think about what your reasons are for wanting students to cover up/not snuggle with an audience member, no matter how intimate a friend, and just tell them straight.

Hello. From the viewpoint of a student, I think you shouldn't worry too much about telling them plainly, clearly, and politely what you expect. Before I knew anything about belly dance I didn't think belly dancers were more than harem strippers with fun costumes. I had no idea. I feel like so much of the general public could have a very similar conception. It's important to the dance as an art form that your students portray their respect for it. Just explain that if they truly love it, they should make sure that others have as high an opinion of it as they do. :) Good luck.

It's your show, you make the rules.
They ARE students and do need it spelled out and if they break your rules, they don't get to take part again..simple as that.
Some people don't see any harm in mauling each other in public.
My generation was threatened wth a bucket of water over us but hey ho some think it's Ok to have sex on the beach in Dubai. You can always shout "get a room" if it gets too bad.
At least she didn't go and sit on a stranger's lap or dance on top of it!

If you're worried about offending them, you could have a general "after show" discussion, telling them would they did well and what they need to improve on.

With the student and the "male friend", is that her boyfriend/husband/similar person? I'd maybe do a segment on how to behave with that kind of person. Some people might think it's obvious that the other person is their SO to everyone else, so the behavior is appropriate.

I`m wondering...I was at a belly dance show in Korea this spring, and the dancer actually sat on an audience member`s lap. He seemed a little uncomfortable with her shimmies, and I guess she was trying to be fun and playful but it looked like he didn`t appreciate it. Maybe your student was at her show and thought that this wasn`t a big deal? Anyways, she should have known better, but some people just seem to lack a sense of decency, especially in a more informal setting.

When I was performing in a troupe, we were never asked to cover our bellies offstage. This is a first for me. But then hey, most things are, lol.

I agree with Zum - let them know what would be expected of a professional, and also let them know that when they are representing YOU, you demand professional behavior out of anyone in costume (or perhaps they risk not being seen on stage period).

Originally Posted by Crystallia

When I was performing in a troupe, we were never asked to cover our bellies offstage. This is a first for me. But then hey, most things are, lol.

It's customary to cover yourself when you're not performing, so the audience doesn't see the costume. A lot of people use caftans or saris

Originally Posted by eshe

I had my first student show yesterday. It went amazingly well. The dances were great. I asked only 2 things of them offstage. One was cover your belly and the other was not to drink.

I ran around all show asking and reasking one of my students to cover herself. She did and then she'd uncover again. Several times before the show I talked to them about this stuff and it was in 3 emails.

Another student covered herself and then went and sat on her male friend's lap and then cuddled him right until it was time to dance. I didn't say anything at the time because I felt I was overstepping my boundaries.

I want to talk to them about this because I feel it was inappropriate. Am I way off? How do I phrase this so it doesn't come off as offensive?

Wow, is your lap-sitting student Korean? Not to be all ethnic stereotypey here, but I thought Korean culture was more formal than that.

I think it would be OK to tell the students that you are going by "professional presentation" rules, so please no lap-sitting, erogenous-zone-groping, or extended kissing in view of the audience.

It would be fair to exclude the exhibitionist dancer who kept taking her coverup off (despite multiple admonitions not to) from the next performance, see if she learns her lesson.

If there is room in the audience for dancers to sit between numbers, we are asked to sit in a designated area set aside for dancers at the back. That way, we are not disrupting other audience members as we come and go to try to sit with our friends and family members.

Perhaps approach it from that angle, rather than address the lap-sitting, itself.

Can you imagine ballet or flamenco dance students behaving like that at a recital? I think not. I think it is okay to have a discussion in class about having a professional demeanor, even at a student show. After all, they are representing you, their teacher, and what they do reflects back on you. I'm sure they did a lot of things right that you can praise them for, too.

I'd say, You wouldn't expect a ballerina to come mingle with the audience in her tutu? I think it's common sense that performers should keep a certain aura of respect and poise by wearing something else in public. Did you consider with them WHY they need to stay covered up? Another reason is that it's rude to draw attention from the performing dancer.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

I feel your pain! I would say that if it's a student show in a hafla-type setting, ie full of friends and family and other dancers, you can afford a degree of leniency. BUT, I would also try and weave a discussion of "good public behaviour" into class and reiterate stronger rules next time you have a show if it's going to take place in a more public setting.

I think if you frame it as "it's OK to do X and Y when it's your own private party or a class hafla that's effectively closed, but if you were a professional performer, these are the rules of behaviour you would be expected to display." I don't know how Korean students feel about it, but most NZers would take that on board as a desirable set of rules to model themselves on. And then, you can talk about how "in this show we need to behave like professionals so our audience respects what we're doing" or "this is a hafla so we can be more informal".

The constantly uncovering student and the canoodler would have been frustrating. It could be that if things don't "sink in" after class talk etc you might need to speak to the latter, especially, one on one. Think about what your reasons are for wanting students to cover up/not snuggle with an audience member, no matter how intimate a friend, and just tell them straight.

Neither of the students are Korean. They're foreigners. There was a typhoon actually on the day of the show so a lot of people didn't come out-but if they all had.....There was no seating left in the place so there were still people there-but not as many as I thought. I started writing that they are representing me and ME dance.

Originally Posted by Goldenpear

Just explain that if they truly love it, they should make sure that others have as high an opinion of it as they do. :)

I think I will do just that!..l;,

Originally Posted by Shalimah

If there is room in the audience for dancers to sit between numbers, we are asked to sit in a designated area set aside for dancers at the back. That way, we are not disrupting other audience members as we come and go to try to sit with our friends and family members.

Perhaps approach it from that angle, rather than address the lap-sitting, itself.

Part of the problem is that there was no backstage area at this place. We changed at the studio and caught a ride over. It was their first show they were just wearing Melodias. Most of them wore tank tops. But I made it VERY clear that IF they elected to wear something that showed their belly they were to cover up before and after.

Originally Posted by lizajuk

It's your show, you make the rules.
They ARE students and do need it spelled out and if they break your rules, they don't get to take part again..simple as that.
Some people don't see any harm in mauling each other in public.
My generation was threatened wth a bucket of water over us but hey ho some think it's Ok to have sex on the beach in Dubai. You can always shout "get a room" if it gets too bad.
At least she didn't go and sit on a stranger's lap or dance on top of it!

Liza-juk, I'm glad you wrote on this thread! It was a Just Because benefit -inspired by your post about the costuming book you wrote.
We're totally on the same page. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't being too strong.

Originally Posted by indigostars

With the student and the "male friend", is that her boyfriend/husband/similar person? I'd maybe do a segment on how to behave with that kind of person. Some people might think it's obvious that the other person is their SO to everyone else, so the behavior is appropriate.

No, it was just a friend.

I started writing that I don't act like that with my SO but then I thought that was maybe being snotty.

Originally Posted by muneera

I`m wondering...I was at a belly dance show in Korea this spring, and the dancer actually sat on an audience member`s lap. He seemed a little uncomfortable with her shimmies, and I guess she was trying to be fun and playful but it looked like he didn`t appreciate it. Maybe your student was at her show and thought that this wasn`t a big deal? Anyways, she should have known better, but some people just seem to lack a sense of decency, especially in a more informal setting.

My students have been to many shows...so I don't think they're modeling their behavior after other dancers.

Originally Posted by nasila

I agree with Zum - let them know what would be expected of a professional, and also let them know that when they are representing YOU, you demand professional behavior out of anyone in costume (or perhaps they risk not being seen on stage period).

Thank you Nasila. This is EXACTLY how I feel too.

Originally Posted by da Sage

I think it would be OK to tell the students that you are going by "professional presentation" rules, so please no lap-sitting, erogenous-zone-groping, or extended kissing in view of the audience.

She's not Korean. Most of my students aren't.

de Sage, that's an excellent title!!

Originally Posted by Mayliz

I'd say, You wouldn't expect a ballerina to come mingle with the audience in her tutu? I think it's common sense that performers should keep a certain aura of respect and poise by wearing something else in public. Did you consider with them WHY they need to stay covered up? Another reason is that it's rude to draw attention from the performing dancer.

I didn't explain about drawing attention away from the stage. I was worried they would think-and I guess they did anyways, that once the show was done, the rules were over. I did talk about having respect for other cultures, especially because the show was a benefit for Just Because (Egyptian women!)

Originally Posted by dunyah

Can you imagine ballet or flamenco dance students behaving like that at a recital? I think not. I think it is okay to have a discussion in class about having a professional demeanor, even at a student show. After all, they are representing you, their teacher, and what they do reflects back on you. I'm sure they did a lot of things right that you can praise them for, too.

My praise section started off as 1 paragraph and my critical section was about 3 paragraphs. That's why I held off for a day and posted on BhuzThe ballet example will really get through to them. Thank you!

Originally Posted by eshe

Liza-juk, I'm glad you wrote on this thread! It was a Just Because benefit -inspired by your post about the costuming book you wrote.
We're totally on the same page. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't being too strong.

That's wonderful about the benefit. Please me know all about it. The book...ah the book..is not going to be in the format we originally thought as binding was not working. However what is going to happen is much much better. I will let you know as soon as arrangements are finalised..g.:

When it comes to "don't sit on the lap of your SO" - maybe it is better to come up with a "Do" rule, rather than a "Don't" rule? That may come across as more friendly, I'd think: "Behave as if you are in the company of a church elder/your prim and proper grand-aunt" or something along those lines maybe? "As if you were on a first date" for Rules Girls in the US, I guess.

I would equate a show to being at work. Sure, it's work you love doing, but still work. And at work you WOULD NOT sit on someone's lap. Especially since an audience member might see this and think it's part of the show and try to get her to sit on his lap too. As for the cover-up, I'd explain it as taking attention away from people who may be dancing. And also, you want to suprise the audience with your costume. That's part of the "ooh-ahh" lol

Originally Posted by steffib

When it comes to "don't sit on the lap of your SO" - maybe it is better to come up with a "Do" rule, rather than a "Don't" rule? That may come across as more friendly, I'd think: "Behave as if you are in the company of a church elder/your prim and proper grand-aunt" or something along those lines maybe? "As if you were on a first date" for Rules Girls in the US, I guess.

I was thinking at first I was going to say "behave like your at a funeral".p::but that's not very fun! Church is much better.

I know *I* wouldn't behave the way I do on a first date. FNAR.

It's customary to cover yourself when you're not performing, so the audience doesn't see the costume. A lot of people use caftans or saris
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i was confused too.
"cover your belly" to me, ment she was making everyone wear power mesh.
we ALWAYS wear a cover up, ...i think she ment coverup....not power mesh?

I would equate a show to being at work. Sure, it's work you love doing, but still work. And at work you WOULD NOT sit on someone's lap.
*** i did my job last night, ...15 min gig for a very rich hye farmer....i sat in his lap, just as all the other hyes there asked me to, it is no big deal here, ...got a nice tip too!
yes, in my costume!