Thread: Song selection and appropriate dance level ability

Does it bother you to see a dancer dance to a very classic, revered song (example Enta Omri-Oum Kalthoum) if they are not at a professional level? Do you think some songs should be left to the pros or is it anyones fair game to give a song a go if they so choose?

:) Heather

Assuming that this is at an appropriate venue for their skill level, like a hafla, etc... I think it's great! I love that music, and I am happy to see someone who is moved by it and wants to perform it. Yeah, it might not strictly do the song justice, but if they love it, it will show through their dancing. I'd rather see that than someone phoning it in to an "easier" song that doesn't really light their fire.

How are people going to learn if they don't use the good music? There's already enough people just using pop and techno.

What would bother me is a dancer (pro or unpro) that showed no awareness of the cultural significance of the song.

I think Oum songs are often more difficult to dance to, in terms of fully interpreting the movement, but you have to start somewhere. If the dancer shows some understanding of the music I think it is fine.

Originally Posted by catwomyn

How are people going to learn if they don't use the good music? There's already enough people just using pop and techno.

Hear, hear! I would rejoice to see a newbie take on a more classical piece.

I've seen classic songs performed by newer dancers. They're not as complex as a pro, but they've been good performances. They move in time with the music and have some understanding. They seem to capture the energy well.

As mentioned above, I'm more bothered by unawareness of cultural significance or bad dancing in general.

Hey, if someone really likes a song then dance to it,what would upset me is someone reacting inappropriately-skipping flirtatious around to Lesse Faker for instance.As long as the person has done their homework and knows what it's about simplicity of dance would not bother me infact it could be very charming and refreshing.

As a newbie, I always try to at least find the translation for a song first. That being said, unless it is obviously Techo/pop I wouldn't know an advanced song if it smacked me in the shimmy. I just decide if I like the song or not and if it moves me, I move to it!

Originally Posted by Candi

Hey, if someone really likes a song then dance to it,what would upset me is someone reacting inappropriately-skipping flirtatious around to Lesse Faker for instance.As long as the person has done their homework and knows what it's about simplicity of dance would not bother me infact it could be very charming and refreshing.

Yep. Of course, with very green dancers they just may do something like that because they, well, just haven't learned better yet. You don't know what you don't know until you learn it. I think what really counts is a.) where are you performing when you're at that point b.) if you're getting good advice and feedback, and c.) how you react and reform when someone comes up to you and says "Nice dancing--your moves were good, and you sure smiled a lot and looked very happy and fun and engaging, which is great...but, uh....did you know that the song you were dancing to is about tragedy and heartbreak?" If they take the message well and are a little chagrinned but file it away under "Ok, don't do that again and next time be sure to see if I can find out more about my music first," then they've learned a worthwhile lesson...and still hopefully been entertaining to watch, if slightly disturbing for the emotional juxtaposition. Mistakes are a part of learning and growing.

I don't know--guess I don't mind "newbies" trying the hard stuff--at least they're developing an appreciation for good music, for heaven's sake!!! If they're smart and/or lucky, they'll work a little with someone to help guide them through a bit to get them going too.

My first solo (apart from one that was someone else's choreo) was to Enta Omri, the intro bit. My teacher was all "erm, this is a very difficult piece of music" but I would not be swayed. *And* it was qanoon and oud.

To this day I don't think I can "do" tarab but I know a lot more about its conventional interpretation than either I or my teacher knew at the time. That said, there was no veil and I had a translation, so I knew what the song was about - it wasn't a ghastly wrong-wrong interpretation. I think if you can get some really solid information about the piece you've chosen, what it is, what it means, how it's conventionally interpreted, you're halfway there. Even if you're not a very good dancer, you're working from a place of knowledge.

Interpretation is subjective of course. I saw Shakira's veily leaping about to Enta Omri and it made me want to vomit, but I guess it's not necessarily *wrong*, just unconventional - but to me it wasn't giving the piece of music its weight. Terribly postmodern of course, and thus inevitable, so I should shut up now...

ETA:

That being said, unless it is obviously Techo/pop I wouldn't know an advanced song if it smacked me in the shimmy. I just decide if I like the song or not and if it moves me, I move to it!

There are a few techno versions of classics out there - Enta Omri, Lissa Fakir, Alf Leyla. I call them the gay disco tarab songs. They're actually kind of hilarious to me. I couldn't possibly dance to one because I couldn't take it seriously and it would make me long for a "real" version, but they're tremendously good fun to prat about the house to and do warmups with.

I agree that seeing a student performing to 'real' music would be a welcome change from all the pop -- and worse, American rock -- that I see.

The biggest pitfall, in my opinion, is seeing the dancer who takes herself waaay to seriously trying to emote beyond her level without nuance or subtlety. That's just uncomfortable to watch. I know, because I did it once, I have destroyed my copy of that video so I can't torture myself with it any more.

Ok..showin massive ignorance here...Tarab? New word.

"Tarab" roughly translates to "ecstacy", but it's a particular kind of secular Arabic music that was popularised in the early/mid 20th century, which is supposed to make you go all gooey, basically. All those old classic singers and songs - Om K is kind of the gold standard so far as I can tell. The songs are very, very emotional, they are characterised by long drawn out explorations of the lyrics (I think), a bit like in jazz, and the whole "tarab" experience is supposed to occur between musicians, audience and dancer. It's quite normal for people to cry and what have you. I gather that, ahem, sometimes a bit of hashish can help you along in that department.

I think it used to be that tarab was only for listening to, but after Suhair Zaki danced to an Om Khalsoum song, it started to become popular for dancers to include tarab performances. According to Sahara of Sydney, if she's dancing for Arabic audiences there that is *all* they want, none of this poppy stuff. The dancer's job is to interpret the lyrical content of the piece, even if the lyrics aren't present - the audience will know them - on her body. Often when you see someone dancing tarab, they don't move round a great deal, particularly not on the bits where the singing would occur. It's all very internal and emotional.

Aahhh..thanks! The first time I listened to the entire Enta Omri song, I was appalled by how rude the audience seemed to be. Interupting the singer so she had to start over and over again...I just kept seeing this semi riot in my head with people shouting and standing on chairs. Of course now I know better...but my first reaction still amuses me. For God sakes...sit down and shut up and let the woman sing already!

Another important concept is the length of the track. Alot of instrumental arrangements of Oum's songs are rather long, and this in and of itself would be disasterous for an inexperienced dance. However, if you look around you can find 3-4 min. arrangements of some of her songs.

Thank you everyone for your responses. I am in fact in this situation. Though I would not call myself inexperienced, I am not to a pro level yet. I lie happily inbetween. I have been cross training in Am Cab and Egyptian style. My Egyptian teacher has an incredibly vast knowledge, training and I think most importantly, a deep-seeded passion for this style of dance and culture. Teaching us about rhythms, appropriate movements and such is top priority. There is always a reason and explaination to each movement and musical note. When she speaks you can see the emotion and pure raw connection she has. I swear I myself cry everytime I see her dance.
Anway, I have an amazing opportunity coming up to perform at a venue that is looked forward too every year by the BD and ME community. This will be the first time a lot of people will be seeing me as a solo dancer since in the past I usually perform as part of an amazing troupe. I LOVE Enta Omri in it's glorious full version and have found a shortened (5:29) of some of its instramental sections. Since I want everything to be perfect-lol-I wasn't didn't want to choose a musical piece that would have people thinking "who does she think she is"...
When I dance I find I dance my best with emotion. I like the pop and other genres out there but I never quite feel that connection that I do with these classic pieces. I long for that "story". There will be many private lssons between now and..eekk...a month from now so I know that my teacher will not let me on that stage and butcher it. But still I wanted to know others opinions before I approached her with this song as I know she holds Oum Kalthoum close to her heart. And I bet there are a lot of us "in betweeners" that never quite know where the fine line is drawn...

:) Heather

Originally Posted by Linnyg

As a newbie, I always try to at least find the translation for a song first. That being said, unless it is obviously Techo/pop I wouldn't know an advanced song if it smacked me in the shimmy. I just decide if I like the song or not and if it moves me, I move to it!

I just re-read this and it sounded a little like I don't listen to the classical stuff. I do and love it, I just meant that I am not yet good enough to tell what the "biggies" are yet. I do know when the music is too fast, changes tempo too much for me, etc for me to dance to tho.

I thought I would follow up on this post from the summer time. I just received the video from the event and thought I would post (ack!) my original choreography (my first, mind you-lol). Thank you all for your thoughts and insights. I enjoyed this night like none other...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5q53WKGUDA]YouTube - Heather: Yalla! Let's Dance 2008[/ame]

Here is also my blog about that night...

A Magical Night... - tribe.net

ETA: I should mention that in the beginning there are some dum's that you can't hear because of the crappy audio so just imagine in the beginning when you see me doing a deep body accent that there is a deep drum beat-lol..

:) Heather

Very beautiful. I LOVE that dress by the way. Where on earth did you find it?

I think as long as the dancer has a skill level appropriate to the song any music is fair game. But I'll never forget a show a couple years ago where a dancer danced to an 8 minute version of Alf Leyla in front of an Arabic audience and she did NOT have the skill level. It was very painful and mortifying to watch.

Originally Posted by Linnyg

Very beautiful. I LOVE that dress by the way. Where on earth did you find it?

Thank you Linnyg! I was very nervous to put this on Bhuz cause well, it is Bhuz, and I know it isn't a top notch professional performance but I also know I put my heart and soul into to it. There of course is a lot of room for improvement. I am glad you liked it.

My dress is a Joharah that I got from ebay from afterglow (Jeanette). I LOVE it. The dark blue material is sprinkled with gorgeous sparkles and the beading is amazing. I am always in a constant search for more dream dresses like that one

:) Heather

Wow Heather, that's a very impressive performance! You should be very proud of yourself. That is a great choreo, you've perfectly matched the music. The style of dancing and costuming both suit you so well, and you look completely comfortable up there performing. I'm really impressed!

Wow! Wow!

You've got it going on in this performance. Good on you!

I think it also shows that it can really benefit a dancer to be working with music that you can seriously get your teeth into.

Originally Posted by bellydnsr123

I also know I put my heart and soul into to it.

It really shows, Heather. I loved watching you because you were so in the moment. Commitment to the piece is so important. Thanks for sharing ..g.:

That was just beautiful. I cannot wait to see what else you do. Please keep them coming - I REALLY enjoyed that.

You should be very proud of that performance.

GORGEOUS!!! Deeply beautifully romantically elegantly gorgeous. I am so impressed.

Give me your hand... *slaps it* You are never, ever to hesitate to dance to the classics again. This music loves you, and you love it, and you have all the skill necessary to capture it in choreography.

p.s. This is one of those situations where the word 'professional' is just meaningless. I was dancing in restaurants and earning money LONG before I was capable of a performance like that.

Originally Posted by anala

Aahhh..thanks! The first time I listened to the entire Enta Omri song, I was appalled by how rude the audience seemed to be. Interupting the singer so she had to start over and over again...I just kept seeing this semi riot in my head with people shouting and standing on chairs. Of course now I know better...but my first reaction still amuses me. For God sakes...sit down and shut up and let the woman sing already!

Anala, audience verbalization is one of the things that happens with tarab. The muscians, the singer, the audience all participate in the experience. I am reading a wonderfully complex book by musician and ethnomusicologist, AJ Racy, called Making Music in the Arab World: The art and culture of tarab. Racy talks at length about this audience involvement, the typical verbalizations and calls that the audience responds with, the importance of the audience involvement to the sort of collective experience. We westerners are taught to sit politely and listen. Racy's book includes some wonderful photographs of Arabic audiences where you can clearly see that they have been transported somewhere else.

Souzan